Raw Cacao Beans & Combinations

[Infinite I]

That's what I've been wanting to do stale pixel thank you. But what type of chiles do you use because maybe a hot chile will synergies with the cacao.

not sure what type i use, but yeah they're hot and dryed

i just made a batch of chocolate by grinding up cocoa nibs, adding sugar and crushed almonds, melting coconut oil, mixing and letting set in the fridge overnight

the ratio was about 60% nibs, 25%sugar, 15% coconut oil

That sounds amazing as does your previous recipe. I left the country 7 months ago and have been unable to get any cacao, after usuing it for two years fairly reguarly, really miss it and love the taste though i always stuck with powdered cacao, can do more with it powdered I think. I used to have a fruit smoothie with raw cacao every morning with piracetam and aniracetam and choline, seperately, what a combo to start the day was great

I have heard theres a grower who lives down the coast where I am and my friend has ordered me a few kilos but ive not heard anything back, miss my cacao smoothies a lot

 

[Dante]

Check this article...
Rare Cacao Beans Discovered in Peru (Published 2011)
I'll soon be in the same area where they have been found!

 

[Beelzebozo]

Just got an order of really nice whole beans in, and by Monday I should have kava as well. Looking forward to giving this combo a try.

 

[Tokapelli]

so i got about a half pound of crushed nibs at the raw foods store this weekend. I have no idea if i did this right but it tasted pretty awesome.

I took a little more than an ounce of the crushed nibs and lightly boiled them in water for a while pretty much like i do with mushroom tea, making sure not to boil it too hot. I boiled that down for a while and then strained the chunks out, added milk and some sweetener, and it was the richest most flavorful hot chocolate ive ever had. I wonder if i wasted the nibs though, because i didnt feel much, i had a good little buz goin for a minute but it wasnt much and it didnt last very long. So i brewed another cup with only a little more than a half oz, even though i wasnt feeling anything I didnt want to overdo it. Tasted awesome once again, but no noticeable effects.

So what should i do differently? Do i just need to eat the nibs? I think the powdered nibs might be better for the drink.

 

[obliguhl]

After taking this combination for a while, i'm having what i would assume to be blood pressure drops resulting in severe dizzyness and feeling weak. I've read that Kava combined with an MAOI can lead to a Hypotensive Crisis - a dramatic drop in blood pressure with the possibility of death. Since raw cacao is also said to be a maoi, i've become cautios and would not advice to take the combination for a prolonged period of time. Perhaps there is some maoi buildup over time which can become dangerous.

 

[embracethevoid]

I can confirm these mild etheogenic effects. Interestingly I found the visual profile to correspond to low dose DMT more than anything else. It constantly felt like I was about to delve into an aya journey.

What do you think the mechanism of action is? Phenethylamine & anandamide synergy?

I do not think it is a wise idea to take this regularly whatsoever. Just like all psychedelics. If you're getting threshold LSD/mescaline effects then you might realise that you wouldn't want to be taking threshold LSD doses every day either!

Microdose is of course different. Regardless, I am rather interested in this. What if we chucked in some turmeric and black pepper and a little THH?

Also you might wish to watch out for the effects of theobromine and caffeine. Either way, this is a great avenue for exploration. I combined it with noopept, piracetam and aniracetam. I noticed a significant increase in proprioceptary ability. I could see my arms through closed eyes in the darkness (I also have trace amounts of noribogaine in my system at present). The strange thing is that I did not notice any effects upon ingestion. Rather, I woke up the next day and started tripping balls halfway through that day!

Also, I may have ingested L-Tryptophan here and there prior to sleeping. This will almost definitely have had a significant effect on this experience. I suggest carefully giving it a try; I had only used on the order of 800mg. I find that L-Tryptophan is mildly hallucinogenic on its own, in an oneirophrenic way. This manifests itself primarily when I am about to sleep, I did not notice these effects in the daytime or they were too subtle. Very strange lucid dreams arise too. Something tells me that tryptophan is probably a precursor to some wacky endogenous psychedelics (pinoline?).



On another forum, I read that someone combined deprenyl (MAO-B inhibitor) & phenethylamine. They reported getting incredible motion fluidity in the same vein as DMT. The effect was transient (30mins I believe) but they stated it had striking parallels to DMT intake. Who knows what the phenethylamine-DMT connection is, but I found that rather intriguing.

 

[wira]

Both DMT and phenethylamine (as well as a bunch of other psychoactive chemicals, endogenous and not) bind to Trace Amine (TA) receptors, so there's one similarity. Otherwise, they both have rather different receptor-binding profiles. Interestingly in the past phenethylamine (10-60mg) has been given with l-deprenyl (10mg) to treat depression, but no mention of effects anything like what you just mentioned :surprised
Very interesting!

Does anyone have any experience to share in grinding the nibs? I've read if you use a blender the friction can warm the fats enough that the nib's become a bit of a paste and stick to the insides of the blender. Likewise I'm concerned that if I use a mortar and pestle I'll also end up with a paste that'll be hard to retrieve all of (and hard to clean out of the fine grooves in my mortar and pestle!). Apparently if you blend with a bit of water it works without sticking, but when I tried it I must have used too much water, because it didn't really grind the nibs very well, and the drink I made from that batch was a lot weaker in flavour than it should have been.

 

[Infinite I]

Id put them in the blender themselves, it never completely blended them all with me but I did end up with some powder, sometimes some of it would go paste like but that suited me for my fruit smoothies. As you mention when using a mortal and pestle it clings to the grooves and leaves marks, my mortal and pestal is stained with cacao and doesnt come off. I switched to powder because of this, though ideally would be good to have nibs and powder. Anyway got some powdered cacao recently, first time in about 8-9 months, oh its amazing :thumb_up:

 

[Ilex]

I've worked with raw cacao in various forms - beans, nibs, cacao paste and the separated products (cacao powder and cacao butter). I dose pretty high on cacao - I'll use about 3 tablespoons of cacao powder for a hot chocolate drink just for me. In high doses, it does have a mild entheogenic/empathogenic feeling along with the stimulation. Very heart opening!

The beans I like to just eat straight, sometimes dipped in honey first. Great for all-night dance parties!

Otherwise I like to make raw chocolate, or hot chocolate concoctions. If making a hot chocolate, I will often start with a medicinal tea as the water portion, for instance chaga and chai spices, but really whatever herbs you want to use.

Here's some flavourings I like to mix in to my chocolate:
- for sweetener, I use honey or maple syrup to taste
- a pinch of vanilla powder, sea salt and cayenne all go great for flavour
- sometimes I'll add other flavourings, such as cinnamon, bergamot essential oil (a delicious citrus note that also stimulates digestion), zest of other citrus fruits like lemon or orange, crushed coffee beans or coffee essential oil, and powdered rose flowers are all nice

Superfoods I like to add:
- Mucuna pruriens (Velvet Bean) cold water extract has a delicious nutty/chocolate flavour of its own, and is almost a "must add" to chocolate for me. Gives an extra kick of l-dopa and other building blocks for our neurotransmitters, and like cacao itself it may be a mild MAOI.

- Maca (Lepidium meyenii) is a nice addition for extra energy and as a mild aphrodisiac. I keep the amount of maca small, as it can be an overwhelming flavour

- Mesquite powder is a delicious bean with a sweet and slightly cinnamon-like flavour, and can help to balance blood sugar levels

- Rice bran aka Tocotrienols is a rich source of vitamin E and also acts as an emulsifying agent to give a creamy texture

- Lucuma powder is also nice for texture and a sweet flavour, you can make a really delicious white chocolate just from cacao butter, lucuma, tocotrienols and maca with honey.

- Royal jelly, the stuff that queen bees get fed: I get a dehydrated powder and add it to chocolates, it's very nutritious and I find a potent aphrodisiac also

- Colostrum (the first milk from a cow) which is very rich in fats and vitamins, and also full of bovine antibodies. Mostly for the rich, creamy texture, but colostrum has been shown to be more effective at preventing influenza in humans than the flu vaccine.

- Pine pollen: this is a phytoandrogen (contains bioidentical testosterone) and tastes pretty good also

Psychoactive additives:
- Cannabis oil can be added directly to the cacao butter, or you can first infuse Cannabis into coconut or cacao butter and then use that to make the chocolate

- kava kava root can also be infused into cacao butter or coconut oil

- Psilocybe mushrooms powdered also go great in chocolate, as I'm sure you already know!

 

[obliguhl]

Regardless, I am rather interested in this. What if we chucked in some turmeric and black pepper

I've tried this, with no effects, but the tumeric dose wasn't that high. Have you tried it in the meanwhile?

Also you might wish to watch out for the effects of theobromine and caffeine.

Good call! Drinking coffee or tea after a good handfull of beans makes me feel anxious and dizzy.

Does anyone have any experience to share in grinding the nibs? I've read if you use a blender the friction can warm the fats enough that the nib's become a bit of a paste and stick to the insides of the blender.

You may use a blender. It is true that a portion will stick to the walls, but it is easy to scrape it off. A coffee grinder is another story. Tried that one time and it came out molten and the whole machine started to smoke.

@Ilex
Great info...you really seem to be into elixirs of all kinds. We can use this kind of information..

It's great that this thread is already providing a wealth of information on contemporary cacao use. More data is direly needed. It is weird that there is so little on the psychoactivity of this plant available even though it's one of the most consumed food in the world.

I want to stress another thing:

If you are starting to experiment with cacao, you may have to purchase different batches from different sources because alkaloid content varies and so does the overall strength. I've used batches which did nothing, some did little...some were strong but nasty (to me). I don't know what it is. The fermentation process? The type of bean? They say that criollo beans are the ones to get and they do taste nice. But i've had most luck with regular, unfermented commercial hybrids (i think! I need to ask my supplier to make sure) which are usually loathed by chocolatiers for destroying the original cacao breeds.

I'm trying to find more scientific data on this.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814605008873 says that fermentation time slightly reduces alkaloid content.

The theobromine content of cacao-beans and cocoa tells us that Forastero beans are higher in alkaloid content.

Apparantly, climate, soil and harvest time also affect the chemical composition of the plant. Also then phenylethylamines increase by roasting which is odd (Chocolate in Health and Nutrition). This source also advocates against using cacao with MAOIs.

This books seems to provide a WEALTH of information...i have to get my hands on it somehow.

 

[Dark_Star]

I finally picked up some raw organic cacao powder the other day along with some maca & I've been mixing them in with my smoothies. I definitely feel great after I drink 'em.

 

[MaNoMaNoM]

LOVE!! i think i read cocoa is also very high in phenylthylamine,
which would account for some of those added effects,
especially when combined with MAOI's, or other psychedelics.

 

[obliguhl]

After several kilos of raw cacao, i've come to the conclusion that cacao alone does not enhance mood per se. I believe it's more an unspecific amplifier, much like LSD, but not psychedelic. That means, raw cacao is set and setting dependent. This is something i will have to take into account while pondering possible new combinations. Drug interactions aside, i have a hunch that cacao might work best with substances which are sedating and have anti-depressive effects. Unfortunatly, there seem to be not too many truly anti-depressive plants out there. My biggest hope is on combinations ... anyone who wants to share new information is invited to do so!

 

[aliendreamtime]

I was recently turned onto cacao. I quit smoking cannabis all-together and was looking for a similar indulgence from time to time.

Has anyone taken into account the type of cacao bean they are using?

I ordered a pound of Pacari Cacao from Ecuador a couple weeks ago. Effects seem to be subtly psychoactive, possibly with a tolerance.

After some further investigations, it turns out there are three varieties of cacao. A website I stumbled upon proffered the traditional historical use of the bean and claimed that the wild Criollo variety from Guatamala is the best, which, of course, was the one they sold. A simple search for "ceremonial cacao" should bring you to this site.

Has anyone experienced this criollo variety? Is it any better/different than more mainstream varieties?

 

[obliguhl]

Yes, i have learned that it isn't that easy, unfortunatly. I've had completely inactive (but tasty) criollo and very active "hybrids". I'm not qualified to interpret this study: http://www.rinconartesanal.com/cacaoaroma/pdf/8.pdf

But it appears that the caffeine/theobromine content is relational and depends on the fermentation prcoess. Also:

There we can see that the
cocoa ‘‘Criollos’’ has the lower theobromine concentration
and the most caffeine content, different from the ‘‘Foras-
tero’’, which have more theobromine content and less caf-
feine concentration. However, the ‘‘Trinitario’’ is a hybrid
and is distributed at an intermediate level.

 

[hummus]

Just some random things to add:
If you're consuming LSA eating lots of chocolate does seem to quantitively ease vasoconstriction and nausea..
HASH CHOCOLATE! OM NOM NOM .. I'd like to try making some raw hash chocolate..
recipe: 3.5-4g of pollen, large bar of chocolate, 1tbsp of coconut oil, simmer in the coconut oil overnight in a slow cooker and melt in the chocolate.. 0.05-0.5g depending on strength and tolerance..
And the raw nibs actually taste not too bad to smoke..
Has anybody ever tried pure theobromine? You can get it pure from your well known internet auction site pretty cheap, don't know how amazing it is but it'd be worth a shot. Could go well as an admixture with pharmahuasca etc.

 

[Coja]

Dark chocolate combined with dehydrated maca juice (BPC sometimes carries this as "super maca"), taken daily for a week or so is a nice adaptogen/energizer with some serious pro-sexual activity ime. Commercial maca-cocoa blends are outrageously expensive, easy enough to make at home with a mold.

 

[Dark_Star]

I love the maca/cacao combo. Drinking some right now. Haven't had cacao in months until yesterday when I finally reupped. I forgot how awesome this stuff makes me feel! I get the raw organic powders of each, separate, and make my own blends. Usually ~ one heaping teaspoon of maca to 2 heaping tablespoons of cacao.

 

[skoobysnax]

I'm not sure on the risks. I've only tried kava once or twice. but i can see it going well with cacao from that. I have mixed cacao with lower end doses of caapi or rue though many times and i really love that combination. Too much of either though can make it quite uncomfortable though, so if anyone tries that start low and be careful

I've taken an aweful lot of cacao this year and i must say its a very underrated bean! I have no problem though stopping for weeks at a time

As far as other combinations go..i really love mixing a massive amount of cacao beans in a fruit smoothie with a solid amount of melatonin (around say 50 to 80mg), and then a bit later slowly puffing changa during yoga/meditation. Its quite an amazing synergy and really extends the duration of the changa, while deepening it as well

Be careful with Kava IMO, possible liver toxin if you do it to often. Here is my first Cacao report:

As a novelty I purchased some ceremonial grade cacoa and decided to try it. On the advice the recipe calls for 2oz and beginners start with 1/2 a dose to judge any possible adverse effects. 7:00pm dose 1 stirred in 8oz water with a dash of ceylon cinnamon, black pepper, agave syrup and splash of soy milk.

By 8:30 a gentle light euphoria set in. Walked the dog and chatted with a friend who happened to be out at the same time with his dog. The physical activity feels good, the night is cooler. Conversation could have gone on and on. Got home and helped get the kids asleep. Prayers with my pre-school aged daughter seemed particularly deep and focused. She really wants to know all about who we pray for. Feeling empathic. I lay for a while to help her fall asleep. The lights outside the room seem to flicker and fluctuate more. subtle strobing of thoughts? I get up and sneak back to adult space.

9:45 Made some cannabis tea, standard 4 droppers. and now watching the new Cosmos, giving my wife a back and neck rub. Tactile sensations seem enhanced and I decide to make dose 2, same as before. Cosmos is provoking deep theoretical conversations between my wife and I. We are having fun and enjoying the stimulating talk.

10:30 Expressing ideas flows very smoothly. Noticeable empathic enhancement. The synergy with cannabis is very nice. Might be nice to do in the center of the 3 month span between MDMA sessions if one does that sort of thing in a therapeutic healthy manner.

Writing this report at midnight. Going to meditate and sleep. I will edit if the end produces any affects therein

EDIT: I got into bed feeling rather stimulated but also relaxed at the same time. There were light CEV's that are usually present for me after cannabis use but the were more fluid and sharper. My thoughts were on the upcoming week. I decide each day to re-engage with my kids and give my wife back some time she gave me in the past weeks to work. I then decided that my mind had enough chatter and began to focus on my breath.

As I did this the colors and intensity of the CEV experience increased and as I watched "the movie" I fell into a sleep of deep dreams which unfortunately escaped upon my kids awakening me at sunrise. Other than feeling I cold use more sleep from being up too late I feel no negative side effects.

 

[obliguhl]

I'm very happy about the new contributions made to this thread - very helpful!
I would like to adress a few things...

hummus....the question remains wether or not pure theobromine elicits the same effects as good cacao beans. While theobromine is an important onstituents of cacao, it could be that there are other factors at play, creating the warm glow cacao has to offer. Some speculate, that the maoi effects of cacao build over time and prolong the effects of the Phenylethylamine which usually gets metabolized within 30 minutes. I do believe this is true, because PEA does not make me feel good (on the contrary) and i somewhat hit a ceiling with cacao after a while...i then just feel pretty bad overall

Also happy you got something out of your first experience skoobysnax.
I would not worry too much about kava though. The liver toxicity risk is grossly overstated in my opinion. Do not drink tudei kava or other non noble kavas and kava preparations (those using the aerial parts of the plants, and/or alcohol extractions) and you'll probably be fine.

The question remains, wether or not kava is safe with chocolate.

...and as for maca...yuck, that stuff tastes so bad, im not sure i'll try it ever again :lol: