Raw Materials (AU)

[somerandompsychonaut]

*SNIP*
EDIT: just realised that bit was probably in breach of the Attitude guidelines around sourcing.

Does anyone have some pointers to likely plant candidates in (Northern) Tasmania? I'm currently surrounded by Acacia, unfortunately none of the *right* Acacia AFAIK it's all A. dealbata which from what I've read about the place is not worth the bother (I think I've seen one person comment about having success but their percentages were pretty suss and everyone else says it's not viable).

 

[_Trip_]

We can talk about live plants and seeds there's an ebay seller iirc that sells courtii seeds regularly who is from Tasmania I think. Unfortunately, due to biosecurity laws it can be hard to get stuff into Tasmania. You could try shaman-australis the forum should have like minded Tassie members.
Plants worth looking into would include A. phlebophylla, A. courtii, A. acuminata, A. retinodes, A. obtusifolia, A. floribunda.

 

[somerandompsychonaut]

Yeah, the original part I edited was relating to an online supplier of processed materials and asking if anybody had experience (realised my error shortly thereafter when I was trawling some other areas of the forum and came back to fix my oversight)

I've run into the biosecurity restrictions a few times unfortunately (all prior to shipment at least). Appreciate the tips on the other forum too.

I'll look up those Acacias and see what I can find, hopefully there's some stuff that isn't dealbata hiding along one of the local creeks.

 

[somerandompsychonaut]

Occurred to me to check iNaturalist for observations in the area, tragically the two target species for which there were observations have both been removed. I shall have to keep an eye out myself (and perhaps see about growing some of my own...), the good news is all the target species have phyllodes so anything with bipennate foliage (like the dealbata) is an instant no-go which will save a lot of futile attempts at identification.

I have been able to locate a Tas based sellers of A. courtii and A. retinodes seed so that's handy.

 

[humble_shulginite]

iNaturalist shows A. floribunda in a few locations north and south Tasmania.

Also A. longifolia subsp. sophorae is very prevalent in coastal areas. I've seen it mentioned a few times as a favorable candidate based on one report but lacks thorough investigation as to whether it is a viable source (and the presence of a histamine compound may be an issue). The non variated longifolia is reported as too variable, and feeble results at best. Sophorae is very easy to identify. Though it does look quite similar to blackwood (A. melanoxylon) out of flower, both have sort of ovular wavy phyllodes and curly seed pods. The main difference is sophorae doesn't grow into a big tree and the flowers are elongated, plus sophorae can handle dry sandy environments.

I'm down south. As _Trip_ mentioned the user Rhyzobium on shaman_australis sells courtii seeds from a plant grown down here. He has other growing well outlines in this video, what a legend. (

)

We should all work on growing these species but I also want to find an abundant wild source, and Sophorae is a good candidate I think. As for A. retinodes (silver wattle), also prevent here, also inconsistent analytics, I am leaving that as plan b for now. Let's crack this. There must be a local source that can be utilised.

Currently I have some sophorae galls that were harvested in autumn, after an extended drought which is when content should peak, but I haven't gotten around to investigating that. Reading that galls concentrate tannin I thought that might also concentrate other things, however I suspect I might have been a wrong assumption and should have just collected phyllodes/twigs instead. Hopefully I'll have some answers soon.

It is probably the worst time to collect material right now as it's so wet and flowering season, the plant is diluted and focusing energy on reproduction, so will probably wait till late summer before looking for any more material. With these tentative sources I think timing and finding good specimens will be the key.

Ideally we want a source with a decent content (~/>0.5%), reliability and repeatability. Anything less wont be worth it for most people.

 

[somerandompsychonaut]

Sadly the only A. floribunda observation I found within about 50km drive was removed by the observer owing to being invasive (along with another specimen of a different target species). That said, I've been paying more attention as I drive around my local area and I've spotted a few specimens about the place that look suspiciously like floribunda, just waiting on some decent weather so I can get out and take a closer look.

Yeah, I saw a bunch of A. longifolia observations and I recall seeing it bandied about a bit, but seemed like the jury was still very much out, didn't realise there was a potentially more favourable varietal though, so I'll take a closer look. Need to see if I can safely import TLC kits and testing reagents into the country so I can try to contribute to the corpus of knowledge a bit...

Suspect you might be right RE: galls not concentrating actives, most plants tend to have evolved this secondary chemistry as a pest control measure so it makes sense you'd find most of it in roots, bark and new growth, though I suppose it could be an "immune response" to the invasion of whatever caused the gall to form.

Thanks for the tips on harvesting, that was another of the questions I was looking for answers to

 

[humble_shulginite]

Well I wish you luck on your search, I am also going to look for floribunda down here, as it is clearly well adapted to our climate, and we'd be doing a public service by getting rid of it

I'm thinking in the event that a variety of extracts are produced I would send them here for full analysis (Kykeon Analytics: Anonymous Drug Checking and Harm Reduction). Testing reagents and TLC kits should be absolutely fine to get, though I've only used the former.

The sophorae immune response goes wild

 

[somerandompsychonaut]

Went for a walk down the creek yesterday before the rain hit, there are several varieties of Acacia with phyllodes in amongst all the A. dealbata including a couple of specimens with the cylindrical inflorescences that A. longifolia (amongst others) has, I was unable to get positive IDs on any of them using the Wattle app but that's likely down to me misinterpreting some of the characteristics (probably didn't help that I'm not sure where my hand lens is currently). Both the suspect longifolia specimens were covered in galls as well.

I did see that the Tasmanian Arboretum has specimens of A. longifolila subsp. sophorae in their collection so perhaps if I pay them a visit and work through the key with a positively identified specimen in front of me that may help to get a better handle on the characteristics.

Thanks for the pointer to Kykeon, I was trying to figure out a way I could get NMR and/or MS analyses done after I was happy with TLC/reagent tests.