Recommended tek for small lab?

[globos]

Hello fellow Nexians,

I have attempted extraction 4-5 times: at first, simple acetic acid extraction for pharmahuasca use, then I've been experimenting with endlessness's food-safe tex. I've also tried to exchange acetone for ethanol and reported about the modest results. I love that tek because as a clumsy guy I don't like to work with strong acids/bases, and besides it's difficult for me to deal with smelly nonpolar solvents. So I've never obtained pure spice on my own.

Now I received an offer I can't refuse. I've got this friend who inherited a small analysis lab, though he's no technical guy. However, one of the techs in the lab is a friend too, and we already had changa together quite a few times in the past. So now we agreed to attempt a lab grade extraction - or at least, we'd like to extract a good quantity of material in a quick, precise way, using the closing hours of the lab. I will contribute the source material. My two friends will contribute the lab (reagents, machinery etc) and the skilled labor.

We'd like to get this done before Xmas, so we can enjoy some special moments with other likeminded friends during the holiday season.

I have about 1kg of MHRB. Which tek (or variation thereof) would you recommend for a reasonably equipped lab? I will read up up your suggestions and compile a digest for the tech friend.

I also have about 500g of ACRB. Would you suggest the same tek or a different one? If the teks are different, which one's the easier/quicker of the two? Other things being equal, I'd like to process the MHRB first, at least because I've got more source material.

Thanks in advance for any help you might provide on this (for me) very important issue.

 

[Psilosopher?]

The thing with DMT, is it's not your materials. It's your technique. If DMT is there, it'll come out. You can get amazing yields with ghetto equipment, if you know what you're doing. I've tested a fair few variants of extractions using labware, and they all seem to be giving roughly the same yields. My range is 1.5 - 2.0%. This is with ACRB, never tried MHRB. There are other factors that affect yield. Time of harvest, last rainfall, age of plant material after harvesting etc.

Here's a link to my method.

EXTRACTION GUIDE: Principles of Alkaloid Extraction (in relation to N,N-Dimethyltryptamine) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[globos]

Hello, Bodhisativa, thanks for your reply! It is much appreciated.

I'd already read that post while studying to figure out a kitchen-based tek suitable for my clumsy hands and limited spaces. Your mention of unavailable equipment such as magnetic stirrers and Erlenmeyer flasks made me look elsewhere for an actual tek I could use, but I did read and reread it.

Besides the methodology, your article was a welcome chemistry refresher for me. I do get the basic principles in there, but the devil is in the details. I'll show the method to the tech guy. He will be able to figure out the necessary quantity of reagents, the appropriate containers etc. For example, I think we'll be able to use a separatory funnel, so we can dispense with the turkey baster

Would you advise an additional refining wash at the end?

Thanks again! :thumb_up:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

The thing is this: if you have decent bark you have to be an absolute fool to fail to collect even a modest amount of product. This is when working with completely normal kitchen utensils.

If you have good bark and you are capable of baking a cake then you should be more than pleased with the results of your extraction.

Working in a lab setting with a competent assistant almost seems like overkill. I would suggest you think VERY carefully about security issues in such a situation.

All that being said, when you have decided on a method why not post it here so we can check it out before you commit your bark to the pot?

1ce has detailed a more lab-apparatus-oriented approach. Whether your lab has a Rotovap or not will potentially make a difference to your choice of solvent.

For example, I think we'll be able to use a separatory funnel, so we can dispense with the turkey baster

Sep funnels can be more trouble than they're worth unless you're using a heavier-than-water solvent, and even then you still have to watch out for emulsions. Better a nice glass Pasteur pipette or two and a good deal of patience.

Would you advise an additional refining wash at the end?

If freeze precipitation from a heavier naphtha has been used, I would recommend recrystallising from heptane or light petroleum ether.

 

[Ulim]

You dont need a lab. You just need salt, acetic acid, and NaOH (LYE), lighter fuel a glass bottle and a stove.

No need any fancy equipment. I got quite a lot of labware myself but I just neve bother using it because its so simple anyways

 

[globos]

Thanks for your detailed answers, downwardsfromzero!

Working in a lab setting with a competent assistant almost seems like overkill. I would suggest you think VERY carefully about security issues in such a situation.

Are you talking about causing accidents or raising unwanted attention? As for the second point, the location is quite safe, night work is not that unusual when on deadline, and the owner is with us anyway.

1ce has detailed a more lab-apparatus-oriented approach. Whether your lab has a Rotovap or not will potentially make a difference to your choice of solvent.

I asked: we do have a Rotovap. Could you point me to 1ce's approach please? After reading it, I will ask my tech friend about the solvents that are available or easy to get. This will also influence our choice about final recrystallization.

Sep funnels can be more trouble than they're worth unless you're using a heavier-than-water solvent,
...
Better a nice glass Pasteur pipette ...

Advice thankfully received :thumb_up:

You dont need a lab. You just need salt, acetic acid, and NaOH (LYE), lighter fuel a glass bottle and a stove.

I understand that, but I'm a little afraid of NaOH and stoves near lighter fuel or other NPs. Besides, my living spaces as of now are cramped and shared, so having smelly stuff in the fridge or freezer - or even on a table - is not an option at the moment. During the warm season it's easier, since I can evaporate outside.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

That was security rather than safety - but of course while safety is important I would imagine your tech guy should be competent in that respect.


Get the right naphtha and it's not that smelly. Presumably this lab also has a pretty decent freezer. Just do a kitchen grade extraction in the lab and freeze precipitate from light petroleum ether. No need to evap, except maybe a tiny bit of heptane right at the end.

1ce posted this: Near full efficiency extraction - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Ignore the minor slanging match at the end of the thread!

 

[globos]

Thanks, I followed the link to that thread and read it up. Not sure I understand 100% - especially the small slanging match at the end - but I'll have the tech guy read it and suggest the best course of action.

Keeping in mind it's 1000+g of source material, is there anything I should know before I see my friends, so I can pass it on? We'd like to get started next time we meet on Monday.

It's very likely I'll get back asking for more info and advice anyway Thanks again!

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Start with 50g first. You don't want to mess up on the first try and lose all your starting material!

Scaling up is not necessarily linear for all materials involved, either. (Sorry, I can't be any more precise than this.)

Bear in mind also that the discussion of large scale extractions is explicitly discouraged on this site...

 

[globos]

Start with 50g first. You don't want to mess up on the first try and lose all your starting material!

That's sensible and sound advice. The reason I kept asking is I was eager to find a reasonably reliable shortcut. Who knows when both friends will be available again! Especially the tech guy is almost always unavailable because of his family situation and several jobs. Besides, security concerns suggest to just pull it off once and for all.

Except from a few small scale half-assed (and mostly unsuccessful) attempts at food-safe kitchen extraction, I've been keeping the vegetables for 1-2 years (bought in 2 batches), waiting for a chance like this. In the long meantime, my spiritual needs have been filled mostly by mushrooms (I managed to get a nice culture from a clone! Yayyy!)

I guess the best course of action could be to have this tech friend instruct us on how to proceed in that working environment, so after the first test batch we can proceed 100g or so at a time when the need and occasion arises.

Bear in mind also that the discussion of large scale extractions is explicitly discouraged on this site...

Oops, I didn't know that such discussions aren't proper; and if I knew, I probably wouldn't have realized that 1kg was large scale enough to trigger a mild, friendly warning. I'm sorry for my slip.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

globos said: Are you talking about causing accidents or raising unwanted attention? As for the second point, the location is quite safe, night work is not that unusual when on deadline, and the owner is with us anyway.

When Darrell Lemaire gave his old lab equipment to Casey hardison, the last thing he said was "I wish I had told no one"

-eg

 

[Ulim]

You dont need a lab. You just need salt, acetic acid, and NaOH (LYE), lighter fuel a glass bottle and a stove.

I understand that, but I'm a little afraid of NaOH and stoves near lighter fuel or other NPs. Besides, my living spaces as of now are cramped and shared, so having smelly stuff in the fridge or freezer - or even on a table - is not an option at the moment. During the warm season it's easier, since I can evaporate outside.[/quote]

Heating while pulling is not needed and adds impurities.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

You dont need a lab. You just need salt, acetic acid, and NaOH (LYE), lighter fuel a glass bottle and a stove.

I understand that, but I'm a little afraid of NaOH and stoves near lighter fuel or other NPs. Besides, my living spaces as of now are cramped and shared, so having smelly stuff in the fridge or freezer - or even on a table - is not an option at the moment. During the warm season it's easier, since I can evaporate outside

Heating while pulling is not needed and adds impurities.

When extracting with naphtha, some will gently heat the solvent before "pulling", the reason for this is that DMT is insoluble in cold naphtha, but soluble in warm/hot naphtha, heating the naphtha before a pull increases the solubility of the DMT...

I have heard some claim that "too hot naphtha" will also leach impurities, though I'm not sure exactly how this would work, if someone could please explain I would appreciate it.



-eg

 

[downwardsfromzero]

globos said: Are you talking about causing accidents or raising unwanted attention? As for the second point, the location is quite safe, night work is not that unusual when on deadline, and the owner is with us anyway.

When Darrell Lemaire gave his old lab equipment to Casey hardison, the last thing he said was "I wish I had told no one"

-eg

This, entirely this!

Rule 0 of the underground drug lab - no outsiders!

I guess the best course of action could be to have this tech friend instruct us on how to proceed in that working environment, so after the first test batch we can proceed 100g or so at a time when the need and occasion arises.

It really is so incredibly easy. You honestly have to be incredibly stupid to fail to extract DMT - caffeine is more difficult to extract. Learn it for yourself and be entheogenically empowered! You may also find that, after the first gram or so, the prospect of up to 20g of the stuff is more than a bit terrifying!

Naphtha and lye even in a kitchen are no big deal. All you need is gloves, goggles and a bit of sense (besides a couple of jars and the requisite starting materials). The lab is only really relevant for subsequent obsessive tinkering or maybe if you get into purifying harmala alkaloids, a decent pH meter or centrifuge might come in handy. Then that particular branch of the hobby would have the added benefit of being somewhat less illegal.

 

[globos]

Rule 0 of the underground drug lab - no outsiders!

There were no outsiders... only the 3 of us, each one needed for a reason.

It really is so incredibly easy. You honestly have to be incredibly stupid to fail to extract DMT - caffeine is more difficult to extract.

I think I've been incredibly stupid then. More details in next post.
On the other hand, I succeed daily at aqueous caffeine extraction, so maybe it's not really harder (ok, ok - it's a joke! With caffeine I drink the actual water without purifying the product!)

You may also find that, after the first gram or so, the prospect of up to 20g of the stuff is more than a bit terrifying!

First gram or so? Hm, I don't think so, ehehe. The way we use it is we have special spiritual meetings based on changa - usually 4-6 people. Mostly, we use a bong. One gram of 1:1 changa is usually not enough, while 2g is more than needed. So, 1g of spice (2g of changa) is not even enough for two meetings. Maybe I would be scared at 10+grams though!

Naphtha and lye even in a kitchen are no big deal. All you need is gloves, goggles and a bit of sense (besides a couple of jars and the requisite starting materials).

Well, after reading your informed advice maybe I will reconsider about naphtha and lye. I do like my psychoactives a lot, but I'm quite conservative with dosage and frequency. Becoming, as you put it, "entheogenically empowered" about DMT would be a worthy achievement in itself.

The lab is only really relevant for subsequent obsessive tinkering or maybe if you get into purifying harmala alkaloids, a decent pH meter or centrifuge might come in handy. Then that particular branch of the hobby would have the added benefit of being somewhat less illegal.

I can only imagine. I've tried basic rue extraction a couple of times indeed - not even dreaming about purifying the product - and even with help from my tech friend for filtering (vacuum pump and suitable glassware), it's a nasty, painfully slow job. There isn't a filter that doesn't get clogged in 15 seconds. Eventually, I settled on pharmas for MAO inhibition. That's until I get entheogenically empowered about caapi, of course... a few seedlings are already going

 

[globos]

It really is so incredibly easy. You honestly have to be incredibly stupid to fail to extract DMT

We were exceptionally stupid

- There was no naphtha, so we used hexane because there was a good quantity available.

- The tech guy insisted on using a sep funnel even if I told him about your warning about emulsions, and I literally told him:

"Pipette and patience is the way
so the masters say."​

He even shook the mess to try and separate it :x

We now have a 4-layer mimosa frappuccino coming out from the first and only pull. It is very frothy in the lower layers. What can be done to salvage it?


The pic was taken yesterday, while the extraction was attempted 4 days ago, so the stuff had 3 days to separate, but it didn't. I'm glad I listened to your advice and only used 100g powder! We followed Bodhisativa's method (EXTRACTION GUIDE: Principles of Alkaloid Extraction (in relation to N,N-Dimethyltryptamine) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus) using hexane as the NPS, and we used the dreaded sep funnel instead of decanting/pipetting.

 

[Biawak]

:lol:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

It really is so incredibly easy. You honestly have to be incredibly stupid to fail to extract DMT

We were exceptionally stupid

- There was no naphtha, so we used hexane because there was a good quantity available.

- The tech guy insisted on using a sep funnel even if I told him about your warning about emulsions, and I literally told him:

"Pipette and patience is the way
so the masters say."​

He even shook the mess to try and separate it :x

We now have a 4-layer mimosa frappuccino coming out from the first and only pull. It is very frothy in the lower layers. What can be done to salvage it?
[...]

You can't tell some people anything! :roll: Sit it on top of a washing machine,- or pull the whole lot through a vacuum filtration set-up (just take the appropriate steps to avoid clogging up the funnel). And have you tried adding sodium chloride?

Don't mess around with hexane for too long without a fume hood, it's neurotoxic.