Reducing to yield more DMT?

[Thorz]

I have extracted DMT multiple times from 50g mimosa using NoMans basic Tek (50g mimosa, 50g lye, 750ml water, 50ml naptha per pull). I would always get around 300mg in crystals, I have been told after doing a freeze precip, there is still some more DMT left in the naptha solution and that I would just need to reduce and freeze precip again to get the remaining amount. I have tried reducing by half using a double boiler setup I made but freeze precip yeilds nothing.

What do you guys think, I still got naphtha from my last extraction sitting around and I don't want to throw it out since it's the last of my DMT.

 

[1664]

My friend has used the same amounts, if you use a cold freezer (-20C or more) you should get all the available goodies from freeze precip. I read if you have too much naptha it can be a problem and you need to evap some off to make a more saturated solution before freeze precip, but the quantities you have quoted should be fine.

If you want to make sure, just leave your naptha out to evap after collecting your crystals. If there was anything left, it will be evident. That way you can make sure before future extractions.

 

[soulfood]

I try to use as little naphtha as possible and save the naptha for an extraction at a later date, so rather than evapping I salt out the excess with fumaric acid. I actaully got a gram out of my collective used naphtha jar the first time I did that

 

[Methtical]

I try to use as little naphtha as possible and save the naptha for an extraction at a later date, so rather than evapping I salt out the excess with fumaric acid. I actaully got a gram out of my collective used naphtha jar the first time I did that

Can you elaborate please? From my (very) limited understanding, the fumaric acid + acetone procedure is performed on DMT freebase that you have already extracted and isolated from naptha to make the more stable salt - are you saying you can perform this procedure on naptha containing DMT freebase to salt out DMT fumarte, which could then be converted back to freebase should one wish to do so? If so, please can you explain the general jist of this, since I am always a bit apprehensive of whether I've got all the the goodness out of the naptha after an extraction - one kind of just hopes that it's all out judging by crystal formation, but for all I know there could be a few more mgs in there for the taking

Thanks,

Methtical

 

[soulfood]

Yeah, it's just a way of making the DMT insoluble in the naphtha so that it falls out without having to evaporate. You can use any sort of acid like vinegar, Hcl etc, but the great thing about fumaric acid is it will come out solid.

Once I've got as much out of the naptha via freeze precipitation I get my naptha in a jar with enough space to add up to 50ml of water. Then I bring some water to a boil and stir in some fumaric acid until no more will desolve, then I leave the water to cool until luke warm. Then I pour around 25ml into the jar and put the lid on and shake the hell out of it. Then you get the water layer out and evap it. This will have a little fumaric acid contamination, so maybe if you want to freebase right away you'd be best off using vinegar or Hcl as they evaporate unlike fumaric/citric acid etc.

 

[Pokey]

When I was still using naptha I always evaporated it after freeze precipitation because I was worried that I was not getting everything. I only got some small puddles of yellow oil which I added to my next extraction just to be safe. Never any hidden crystals though. A really cold freezer and not having too much naptha ensures good results.

Pokey

 

[soulfood]

That's the thing with evapping though.

You get very impure results, however with salting out you get the purifacation and solvent migration in one step and you can use the naptha again Everyone wins!

 

[Methtical]

Yeah, it's just a way of making the DMT insoluble in the naphtha so that it falls out without having to evaporate. You can use any sort of acid like vinegar, Hcl etc, but the great thing about fumaric acid is it will come out solid.

Once I've got as much out of the naptha via freeze precipitation I get my naptha in a jar with enough space to add up to 50ml of water. Then I bring some water to a boil and stir in some fumaric acid until no more will desolve, then I leave the water to cool until luke warm. Then I pour around 25ml into the jar and put the lid on and shake the hell out of it. Then you get the water layer out and evap it. This will have a little fumaric acid contamination, so maybe if you want to freebase right away you'd be best off using vinegar or Hcl as they evaporate unlike fumaric/citric acid etc.

So what are the ramifications of fumaric acid contamination? Do you have to further purify it?

I'm interested in the vinegar/HCl aspect, since I have these readily available and am freeze prepping at the moment so it will be a quick and easy test for the residual naptha.

So, if I understand correctly, the thing to do would be:

-Adding warm vinegar/HCl to warm water, which is that added to the naptha and shaken.
-Seperate out the water layer which will now contain DMT
-Evaporate the water and then follow the standard fumarate to freebase steps (i.e sodium carbonte/acetone)

However, from what you posted above I'm guessing that fumarate is used because after evaporation of the water layer there is solid crystals with which one can work with - so what is left if vinegar/HCl is used instead of fumerate?

Thanks,

Methtical

 

[soulfood]

So what are the ramifications of fumaric acid contamination? Do you have to further purify it?

I'm interested in the vinegar/HCl aspect, since I have these readily available and am freeze prepping at the moment so it will be a quick and easy test for the residual naptha.

So, if I understand correctly, the thing to do would be:

-Adding warm vinegar/HCl to warm water, which is that added to the naptha and shaken.
-Seperate out the water layer which will now contain DMT
-Evaporate the water and then follow the standard fumarate to freebase steps (i.e sodium carbonte/acetone)

However, from what you posted above I'm guessing that fumarate is used because after evaporation of the water layer there is solid crystals with which one can work with - so what is left if vinegar/HCl is used instead of fumerate?

Thanks,

Methtical

The vinegar and hcl don't need to be warm. You only warm the water if using fumaric acid because only at higher temperatures is it soluble enough. Fumaric acid is not very soluble in water at room temperature and you want to to be as concerntrated as you can because you don't want to be waiting ages for water to evap. Vinegar you can throw straight into the naphtha and hcl will need diluting to around 5%

If you're converting to freebase fumaric acid contamination isn't a problem.

DMT hcl and acetate looks like a waxy goo so it's a bit harder to tell when it's fully evapped but it's ok to use a little heat to finish up the evapping process as these salts are pretty stable.

 

[Methtical]

I see - thanks for this, shame I wasn't aware of this earlier as who knows how much of the Precious I may have accidently parted with!

I have no fumaric acid at present, wouldn't really know where to find it. I do have plenty of citric acid, though I'm not sure if this is as useful.

Assuming I am using vinegar, is there a specific volume, or is it just a case of keeping to a minimum in order for minimal evaporation time?

Upon production of this waxy goo, is it just a case of mixing with sodium carbonate, washing with acetone and then evaporating?

Thanks,

Methtical

 

[soulfood]

Yeah just put about 20ml of vinegar in there and give it a few good shakes and evap. If there's more than you thought then repeat.

I wouldn't use citric acid as there's no real benefit because it will evap to a mixture of liquid DMT and excess fumaric acid. Vinegars the way to go really.

 

[glasseyed]

Great stuff, this is real helpful to SWIM, he made a mistake of adding too much naptha and as such precip is going a little slow...
is acetate produced by this smokeable or does it require conversion to freebase first?

Joy

 

[soulfood]

You'll need to convert it. It's a nasty sticky mess with to high a boiling point to deliver an efficent hit.

 

[mumbles]

Reduce the naptha using a fan not heat.