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Didn't this place used to have periods when you couldn't register, or you had to go through some kind of approval process? I might be mixing that up with other old sites.

Would it be weird to expect a new member to meet certain criteria to participate? The attitude is one example of general criteria. I haven't registered in a long time, but I'm guessing there's nothing requiring someone to read it, maybe just a check box. But I'm more talking about fundamental extraction knowledge. It seems like a majority of new users making their first post are repeatedly asking the same questions. Questions that are answered in the Wiki, in teks, in many places. I know we have a FAQ to address that, but again there's nothing requiring someone unless they get sent to homework detention.

IMO everyone should start in detention, and when you can sufficiently pass a test on basic extraction literacy, then you graduate with posting permissions. I realize this place is more than just extracting, but maybe it could work to restrict specific forums? I guess lazy people would just skip and post their questions wherever. But it would really be to their benefit to streamline new people through some sort of tutorial process. People really need to learn what acid/base, pH, non-polar/polar, solubility is before they can get the most out of the knowledge here. People gravitate toward "teks" because they feel blind and reassured by a recipe. But teks are a crutch and choosing one is really like putting on a blindfold.

There should be a simulation mini-game with reagents. People can practice adding lye to water and it beeps at you with a pop-up prompt if you try to add water to lye. Or at least a nexus-approved youtube video of someone else showing the basics, that people have to watch and answer some written questions about, to check their comprehension. Could do it in steps even, you gotta pass the pH quiz to unlock the acid/base video, and get through 10 videos to graduate. Let's start a university!
 
Yes, we did have a registration window back in the day. I'm not quite sure why it was in place, but I doubt it was doing much in terms of the perceived "quality" of members joining.

The problem with restricting posting to specific subforums until a member has passed some kind of test is that they can just post their lazy questions in another unlocked subforum instead, such as Open Discussion.

So in that sense, having a test based on the Attitude Page upon registration would be a better approach, IMO. We could create a questionnaire such as the one we had back in the day, and base it on the points in the attitude page, and until the user passes that test, their registration cannot be completed.

For people that come here with purity in their hearts and minds, and are open to learning and contributing, having such a preliminary filter would not be a deterrent to register at all. Quite the contrary - it might encourage them even further because it would signal to them that this community puts a lot of emphasis on its values and the quality of its discourse.

And those that are too lazy or don't care enough to complete the questionnaire wouldn't have been a good fit here anyway.

There has been a fair amount of discussion about bringing the questionnaire back, and honestly I'm in support. I can help formulate the questions & answers if needed.

Pinging @The Traveler for reference.
 
I think this is definitely a double-edged sword. If you gatekeep too much, you lose new members, and we’ve already seen quite a few leave over the years. But at the same time now we get new users who are mostly here with a lazy, quick-answer mindset, they just want confirmation and to move on. That’s what the FAQ and Q&A sections are for.

It’s noticeable on the forum that some of these people ask very basic questions that could be answered by reading a short post or link, yet those threads still grow to dozens of replies, often repeating things that have already been said many times. That raises the question of whether this is the best use of members’ time.

Take for example, “Is this TEK I wrote good?” That’s a weak way to learn, especially when the mistakes are obvious. Reading others’ descriptions would show them exactly what’s wrong. Still, those threads spark lengthy discussion that can be useful but also are imo very repetitive.

As for gatekeeping and questionnaires, yes, that’s an option, but it risks making the space too exclusive and might block people who could contribute meaningfully later on. What we could do now is probably to redirect those basic topics to the FAQ or Q&A section quicker, and encourage members to spend less time repeating old answers.
 
I think that the (active) new members influx is low enough for that to not be a problem, right now. I would agree if there were more people incoming.

What could be done is to be deliberately less helpful when the questions are too basic (that is, can easily be solved by searching here and reading). I think we may be "too helpful" sometimes. Also, maybe mods could be tougher with homework detention, particularly when someone goes to a completely unrelated thread and posts "there's no Shellite in Omyakom, tell me what to use instead".
 
I think we may be "too helpful" sometimes.
That raises the question of whether this is the best use of members’ time. . . and encourage members to spend less time repeating old answers.
Yea, I think some people live for the slow-pitches, the easy answers. I've seen it in all the DMT communities, there's a small handful of people that are lonely or have too much time, and like to be the one that answers. It's maybe a little addicting to feel like you're helping a lot of people. Nothing wrong with that. I think we have enough helpful people to cover the frequency of beginner questions. But I do wonder if the smartest among us were relieved of the "beginner's assistant" role, if it would free up more brainpower for intermediate and advanced challenges.

It would be a fun collaboration anyway, to assemble an "extraction chemistry 101" guide. We could collaboratively discuss the best practices for everything, then lock the rough draft discussion and link to a finished course.
 
But I do wonder if the smartest among us were relieved of the "beginner's assistant" role, if it would free up more brainpower for intermediate and advanced challenges
Well, I don't think anyone is being forced to answer those questions, as you say it just feels good sometimes to do so (not that I could help with too advanced of a question to begin with). So abstaining from doing that would already free any brainpower that was devoted to it.

I think the main problem with those questions is that they create a lot of noise. And they're also often annoying on their own right.

It would be a fun collaboration anyway, to assemble an "extraction chemistry 101" guide. We could collaboratively discuss the best practices for everything, then lock the rough draft discussion and link to a finished course.
This is a very good idea, I had been thinking of something similar. An introduction to the very basic chemical principles needed to understand the principles of extracting. I personally had no clue when beginning. I figured it out looking up online, but it would have been nice to have a chemistry primer geared towards extraction that assumes no previous knowledge. There is a somewhat similar PDF around (something like "The principles of alkaloid extraction"), but it could be better.
 
I personally had no clue when beginning. I figured it out looking up online, but it would have been nice to have a chemistry primer geared towards extraction that assumes no previous knowledge.
Same lol. I read a few teks here, but the one I ended up following for my first time was off mycotopia, because the author included a glossary of terms that brought me up to speed on tek-talk.
 
I'm new, I read the attitude things when signing up, web searches brought me all the info I needed from here before I signed up and if I'm honest I found googling random DMT questions more efficient than browsing or searching the forum once I decided to sign up here. (Read a few books first and watched many many hours of Youtube too)
From personal experience in my business and how I got to the point of starting it, asking dumb questions of fellow hobbyists and people in my industry is where i got my knowledge. I learned from their kindness to donate time. I've continued in my business with the same ethos of to pass on knowledge to whoever asks, even if I don't like the person.

Everyone learns differently, you'll have to beat Maths into me with a stick!

just my two penneth.
 
I'm not quite sure why it was in place, but I doubt it was doing much in terms of the perceived "quality" of members joining.
It was pretty much so that moderators wouldn't get overwhelmed, but it added a bit of mystique and higher value of being a member here when coupled with the questionnaire.

It allowed us to keep an eye on new members without having to keep track of too many at one time.

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From personal experience in my business and how I got to the point of starting it, asking dumb questions of fellow hobbyists and people in my industry is where i got my knowledge. I learned from their kindness to donate time. I've continued in my business with the same ethos of to pass on knowledge to whoever asks, even if I don't like the person.
Yes, the point is not to not reply to beginners' questions, the point is to not reply over and over to the same questions that are answered nicely in the wiki and elsewhere. Asking questions is fine, I did and do it a lot, but if someone doesn't show a bare minimum of personal autonomy, he's demanding that others do the effort he's not willing to do. So it's not about questions, but about requests to be spoonfed.

Places where no effort is made to avoid spoonfeeding end up being completely dominated by people who show up, demand their problem be fixed, and are never seen again once they got what they wanted. That way, no one actually learns.
 
googling random DMT questions more efficient than browsing or searching the forum once I decided to sign up here.
A gem of the finnikiness of the search function is the plethora of other valuable information you'll come across in your search.

As for gatekeeping and questionnaires, yes, that’s an option, but it risks making the space too exclusive and might block people who could contribute meaningfully later on
We can't win em all. If some of those potential valuable contributors slip through the cracks, it neither does us harm nor good and is a better alternative then allowing them easier access which also allows a lot of lazy idiots access too, a great deal more than the valuable contributors that slipped through the cracks. It's not meant to be easy to be a member here (hence the questionnaire and what sets us apart functionally from many other forums).

Well, I don't think anyone is being forced to answer those questions, as you say it just feels good sometimes to do so (not that I could help with too advanced of a question to begin with). So abstaining from doing that would already free any brainpower that was devoted to it.

I think the main problem with those questions is that they create a lot of noise. And they're also often annoying on their own right.
Yeah, this is why we have the dedicated extraction help thread. We tend to get the same questions on repeat, I likely have been no exception. And I don't really think it's about the smartest amongst taking up more brain power in answering those questions, because I am a chemistry idiot (okay that may be a little unfair) and tend to answer a fair number of questions in the extraction help thread. It comes mainly from a place of empathy having had questions myself at one time, and just awareness when I happen to have an answer or some insight.

t would be a fun collaboration anyway, to assemble an "extraction chemistry 101" guide. We could collaboratively discuss the best practices for everything, then lock the rough draft discussion and link to a finished course.

I could've sworn there was something like this somewhere on the forum, but I am not seeing it stickied on any of the forums I checked and am not seeing it in the Wiki. The above was all that I could find.

That would be a pretty big undertaking as there are a lot of fundamentals to encompass in a 101 on chemistry, but hey, have at it. There are plenty of people and resources here that can help as well LLM tools at our disposal. We could have it shown on the forum and be in the Wiki.

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A gem of the finnikiness of the search function is the plethora of other valuable information you'll come across in your search.


We can't win em all. If some of those potential valuable contributors slip through the cracks, it neither does us harm nor good and is a better alternative then allowing them easier access which also allows a lot of lazy idiots access too, a great deal more than the valuable contributors that slipped through the cracks. It's not meant to be easy to be a member here (hence the questionnaire and what sets us apart functionally from many other forums).


Yeah, this is why we have the dedicated extraction help thread. We tend to get the same questions on repeat, I likely have been no exception. And I don't really think it's about the smartest amongst taking up more brain power in answering those questions, because I am a chemistry idiot (okay that may be a little unfair) and tend to answer a fair number of questions in the extraction help thread. It comes mainly from a place of empathy having had questions myself at one time, and just awareness when I happen to have an answer or some insight.



I could've sworn there was something like this somewhere on the forum, but I am not seeing it stickied on any of the forums I checked and am not seeing it in the Wiki. The above was all that I could find.

That would be a pretty big undertaking as there are a lot of fundamentals to encompass in a 101 on chemistry, but hey, have at it. There are plenty of people and resources here that can help as well LLM tools at our disposal. We could have it shown on the forum and be in the Wiki.

One love
The questionnaire is not active at the moment, or am I missing something?
 
The questionnaire is not active at the moment, or am I missing something?
Nope, you're not missing anything my friend. I probably didn't phrase my response correctly to reflect that I was talking about the purposes and functions of the registration window and questionnaire.

Both are non-existent now.

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Good suggestions, @Icon - these issues cross my mind from time to time, and fairly frequently at that. Only this morning I was thinking of designating lazy-ish questions into their various topics a bit more, rather than throwing them all into one big pile.

What is the state of play with the Nexus-trained AI tool? Are there any ways of implementing a little astomation for any of this? It seems to be (as ever) a questimn of person-hours for knocking together and testing such tools in the first place. And, yeah, I'm being a bit hand-wavey here.

When it comes to replying (again) to yet another n00b question (@Varallo), I don't necessarily feel obliged to participate, and rather than it being 100% about any feelgood factor for helping someone, there's a large factor of personal benefit for me in terms of honing writing skills, general self-expression, exercising my memory and - somewhat as @Voidmatrix pointed out - finding random gems through the vagaries of the Nexus search engine.

I really miss the questionnaire sometimes - there were occasions where it could be hilarious, especilly since it was virtually endless! It was quite a good filter for highlighting those without a certain type of sense of humour 😂

Porting stuff over from the old forum seems to go in fits and starts at best, so questions of adding or reintroducing features are, for closely related reasons, inevitably beset with the questions of who's going to do it, how long will it take, and are there even ways of setting realistic targets on a volunteer-led project populated by people who are either busy or flaky, to put it crudely?
 
I think this one is too.


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Prime candidate here:
I think this one is too.


One love
Both moved to the homework detention.
 
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