Russian Olive Extraction

[neuro_rocket]

SWIM is very interested in harmala alkaloids, but he doesn't have ready access to any of the mainstream plants (Rue, Caapi or Passionflower).

However SWIM ran across this post Petalostyles labicheoides high in THH? - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus in which Russian olive (Elaeagnus angustifolia) is discussed to have harmalas in it.

The Bark of the tree is a rich source of alkaloids. According to Duke's Ethnobotanical database the badk contains the beta carbolines:

2-METHYL-1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDRO-BETA-CARBOLINE
N(B)-METHYL-TETRAHYDROHARMOL
TETRAHYDROHARMAN and
TETRAHYDROHARMOL

SWIM remembers seeing some other compounds when he looked on Dr. Duke's, but the whole ARS/GRIN site seems down now, but he'll edit when it is back up.

SWIM is wondering if the normal tek for Rue would get all of the harmala alks or does the Rue tek only extract Harmaline and Harmine. If so then how would SWIM extract all the other compounds?

Thanks
-Neurorocket

 

[Dorge]

this is really interesting... in what parts of the tree are they the most concentrated, and in what basic quantities? also i beleive that TETRAHYDROHARMAN is another way of saying THH am i correct on this?
also what is the psychopharmacological effects of these other hawrmalas?
this is a great plant by the way... and an invasive species... funny how harmala plants tend to be invasive...

 

[neuro_rocket]

Tetrohydroharman isn't the same as THH, in fact (from what I've read) Russian Olive is the only plant that contains Tertrohydroharman.
I read that the bark has the highest concentration.

 

[Dorge]

ive seen tetrohydroharman in other plant specs... and i think that its just another word for tetrohydroharmine...
i could be wrong though...

YEP NO IM TOTALLY CORRECT ON THIS ONE!!
HARMAN, 7-METHOXY-1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDRO; HARMINE, 1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDRO; b-CARBOLINE, 7-METHOXY-1-METHYL-1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDRO; 7-METHOXY-1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDROHARMAN; 1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDROHARMINE; 7-METHOXY-1-METHYL-1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDRO-b-CARBOLINE; 7-MEO-THH; LEPTAFLORINE

check it out in TIHKAL!

Erowid Online Books : "TIHKAL" - #54 TETRAHYDROHARMINE

Entry #54 TETRAHYDROHARMINE from TiHKAL by Alexander & Ann Shulgin.

www.erowid.org

this is exciting!!! not only is it nice to be right for a change... but if the bark has high concentrations of it in there then boy howdey are we in luck!

 

[richierich_931]

I'm glad you're right, that terribly invasive tree grows everywhere around here!

 

[Dorge]

make an ethanol extract of it add it to some peppermint and some spice and see if there is a "changa effect"... that will really tell you the effectiveness of it...

 

[richierich_931]

no spice...

 

[Dorge]

well yes of coarse add the spice thats the only way to see if it really really works ; )

 

[balaganist]

this is very promising.
I have long been wondering if there are plants with similar properties to Caapi that can grow outdoors in europe...

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

The Dr. Dukes site cannot be relied upon or even trusted in many cases.

For the purposes being considered here the species tends to have 2 alkaloids in decent amounts.
Those are Harman, and Tetrahydroharman.
Other alkaloids occur in trace amounts, but that is all they are.

Bark brewed looks and smells like ayahuasca. Extractions of this species by A/B methods yield virtually nothing.

I have heard more than one report of it being smoked for a mild benzo like effect, undoubtedly the result of the alkaloid content. Pheasants and other birds flock to the fruit, the plant is not listed as poisonous in any account.

It may be the ayahuasca analog that everyone has been looking for.
However it might not be.

 

[Infundibulum]

The Dr. Dukes site cannot be relied upon or even trusted in many cases.

For the purposes being considered here the species tends to have 2 alkaloids in decent amounts.
Those are Harman, and Tetrahydroharman.
Other alkaloids occur in trace amounts, but that is all they are.

It's true that Duke's database cannot be trusted 100%. Some caution should allways be exercised since no information found is always 100% correct. Duke's database is not to tell you what each ethnobotanical contains but rather to let you do a first step in understanding an ethnobotanical. It's always good to read the disclaimers on said databases.

Bark brewed looks and smells like ayahuasca. Extractions of this species by A/B methods yield virtually nothing.

How exactly the A/B was performed? Why Manske was not performed instead? Basically, SWIM is unaware of any non-polar solvents that can readily dissolve freebased harmalas. And basification of a crude acidic extraction from a harmala-containing plant material does not result in nice precipitation without performing a Manske first. (at least from what SWIM has observed).

 

[richierich_931]

well yes of coarse add the spice thats the only way to see if it really really works ; )

What SWIM meant is that he has no spice to add, not that it shouldn't be added... lol

 

[Dorge]

Explore Tetrahydroharman | TiHKAL · info

Explore the structures and analogues of Tetrahydroharman, 1-Methyl-2,3,4,9-tetrahydro-1H-β-carboline, 1-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline, 1-Methyl-2,3,4,9-tetrahydro-1H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole in book II of TiHKAL: The Continuation. Alexander & Ann Shulgin

isomerdesign.com

www.springerlink.com/content...text.pdf
www.sciencedirect.com/science
hmmmmmmmmmmm......
this is interesting...

Explore Tetrahydroharman | TiHKAL · info

Explore the structures and analogues of Tetrahydroharman, 1-Methyl-2,3,4,9-tetrahydro-1H-β-carboline, 1-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline, 1-Methyl-2,3,4,9-tetrahydro-1H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole in book II of TiHKAL: The Continuation. Alexander & Ann Shulgin

isomerdesign.com

I think its the same damn thing...
6-MeO-THH

hmmmm maybe its just an isomer or an analog?
isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/explore.php

 

[Phlux-]

swim knows where some of this grows - swim will collect some and do the manske on it.

 

[Dorge]

a simple ethanol extract would do the trick for extracting and smoking.
take some bark
soak bark in ethanol for a few weeks
strain
add liquid to inert leaf
evap in food dehydrator
smoke with a tryptamine and see how it goes...

 

[Phlux-]

swim likes a nice final clean xtal product for some unknown reason - he says there is nothing better than waking up in the morning to a bowl full of nice xtals and a nice array of little seedlings.

 

[Dorge]

all a matter of aesthetics then...

 

[Phlux-]

idk man - pure white spice or mesc vs an impure product... goo'ed leaves with an ethanol extraction vs 1 single perfect dose sized xtal ?
swim has loads of harmine and harmaline and isnt just after something active - he wants to know whats in there - isolate each one - then play with it a bit.

 

[Dorge]

have fun with that...
an simple ethanol extract works just fine for swim...
like swim said a matter of aesthetics.
simplicity and results makes swim happy...
but SWIM sees the value in what your doing too.

 

[Phlux-]

for sure - not everyone needs a product like that - if its effective and does what u need it to thats perfect.
because of this reason - swim has given up on psilocin/cybin extracts - 5g is not a lot to eat for the fx it gives and not neccicary.
what grade ethanol is suited to this purpose ?
also the reason swim wanted to do the manski is because it removes any toxins in rue - swim just assumed it would remove any toxins in russian olive - if there even are any.
perhaps its best just to do the ethanol extraction then precipitate by adding some water and basic solution - then purify and separate further.

so - anyone know if the salting step of the manski is even neccicary or if it may even remove some actives ?