Russian Olive Extraction

[taterboard]

since i cant post in the harmala forum ill post a link to my current extraction which im refining now:
Beta-Carbs Topia

these alkaloids are currently being sent out to be tested in a university lab. ill post results here as well as mycotopia.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

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THIS IS NOT RUSSIAN OLIVE - I saw this on your thread at mycotopia as well...I'm not sure what it is, it could definitely be another olive, but it is NOT Russian Olive (Elaeagnus augustifolia). If you have pictures of the leaves for this tree, we could most likely identify it correctly.


The bark is different and it looks far too large (granted, there's nothing to really get a good scale from) to be E. angustifolia. Russian Olive is technically a shrub, usually having multiple smaller trunks, that requires incredible amounts of light to grow large (thus it appears on the edges of trails rather than in the middle of woods) and "large" for russian olive is nowhere near the apparent size of the tree in that picture.

 

[taterboard]

actually it is. its been properly identified by many professionals and it is a common plant here. that is a very old one, quite large. most are like shrubs until they age.

this was on the edge of a trail by the river. i assure you it is correctly identified and the extract is active as well.

this is what the leaves look like. ill take picture of the one i have in my backyard for comparison here in about an hour. i also have bark and leaves if anyone wants to confirm my extraction.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Ummmm, if you're going to post leaf shots, they need to be of the same tree (not internet prints of Russian Olive leaves or trees in your back yard), otherwise they have no bearing.

actually it is. its been properly identified by many professionals and it is a common plant here. that is a very old one, quite large. most are like shrubs until they age.

this was on the edge of a trail by the river. i assure you it is correctly identified and the extract is active as well.

I'm highly skeptical, do you have other pictures? They are not "like shrubs until they age" they are shrubs. If you'd like I can post other pictures of mature Russian Olive trees (it is readily apparent that the tree pictured here would take the World Record for trunk diameter and height if it were a Russian Olive tree). My boss says this is not Russian Olive, at least not from the characteristics presented in that picture, as he is one of the premier US Botanists, I would have to take his word over your "assurances" if you don't have any other pictures.

The following can be found on wikipedia (if you need better plant resources to accept this, let me know, my office is full of monographs and various botanical guides, I will gladly copy descriptions or scan taxonomic images): Elaeagnus angustifolia is usually a thorny shrub or small tree growing to 5-7 m in height. Its stems, buds, and leaves have a dense covering of silvery to rusty scales. The leaves are alternate, lanceolate, 4-9 cm long and 1-2.5 cm broad, with a smooth margin.

Clearly your tree is far too large for it to be Russian Olive, even if the bark did not look wrong for said species. As the leaves are not visible in that picture, it's impossible to tell if they are the correct shape or have the distinctive silvery sheen on the underside. Like I said, if you've got other pictures please post them, I'd love to correctly identify this tree.

 

[taterboard]

heres a couple more to aid with the texture of the old bark (the stuff i tossed out, used the fibrous bast) and again another russian olive that not only is taller but has a larger trunk then the one i photod. the one i harvested from had 2 more trunks that had been sawed off a few years ago. so, again, it fits the description you listed except for the incorrect hight description. the ones that are in my backyard are only about 10 years old. several are only 5. they are growin on a ditch line.

EDIT: my tree was 15-20 feet high also which is within your description of hight.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I'm not 100% sure on the first one as it has no foliage and I haven't spent much time looking at it (EDITED: Yea, the first one is Russian Olive), but that second one is NOT Russian Olive either...I don't understand what taxonomic guidelines you are following to identify these trees. Did you even bother to read my issues with the trees you're calling Russian Olive? Finding specimens > 20ft tall is a seriously rare and you are claiming to have 2 of them within your area.

The first tree is Russian Olive and looks unlike the first or last tree in this thread. Even if the second new tree is Russian Olive (which I don't believe it is), it still wouldn't have any bearing on the first picture you posted...so I still maintain that the FIRST tree pictured is NOT Russian Olive...


EDIT: Look at the first tree you posted in your last post (the one I'll agree is Russian Olive)...does it not look significantly different than the other two you posted? Just some food for thought.

 

[taterboard]

that was from wikipedia and oregon state university, both of which are more credible than an anonymous botanist on an internet forum. no offense. i live next door to a state wildlife official and he confirms the ID. in fact, youre the only person to dispute it as well as wikipedia. im not trying to be confrontational but youre either misinformed or have an incorrect idea of how tall 7 meters is (just under 23 feet dude) perhaps short trees are normal for your area but i can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that they can get even taller. youre very adamant that you have a proper ID off a picture that wasnt even taken at scale or to properly ID the tree. its just sort of silly. well, anyway, heres a picture of the thorns and some young leaves.

 

[taterboard]

thats because it is young. watch it grow ten years and itll begin to take on a more gnarled shape.

EDIT: im going to harvest more mullein leaf today nearby and ill take pics of that particular tree. full size shot. bark shot. multiple trunk/branches. cross section of the reddish wood. leaves and berries.

anything else you would like a photo of to aid your confirmation?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I take no offense to you not following some "online botanist" (I'm no botanist, nor have I claimed to be, I am but an aspiring ethnobotanist and student), it's your life and you are free to do as you please.

thats because it is young. watch it grow ten years and itll begin to take on a more gnarled shape.

EDIT: im going to harvest more mullein leaf today nearby and ill take pics of that particular tree. full size shot. bark shot. multiple trunk/branches. cross section of the reddish wood. leaves and berries.

anything else you would like a photo of to aid your confirmation?

lol...we're not debating mullein...why would I care? :lol:

I was just trying to help you from putting unknowns into your body; if you think you're extracting from E. angustifolia and you're not, you have no way of knowing what might be in your extract. I'm not on here disagreeing with you because I need to be right or because I think I have some special botanical knowledge I want to wave in your face (the claim that it's not Russian Olive is my boss' as I've already stated, his credentials are far beyond anything I would claim to have). I was trying to help you engage in your extraction safely...since I see that's not wanted I will refrain from commenting on your extraction any more.

I only pointed this out because after my boss taught me the woody plants of our region, I found out Russian Olive has beta carbolines and began to harvest my own leaves and twigs/bark. I was curious as to what you were doing and saw that the tree you presented was quite alien from any Russian Olive I had ever encountered or read monographs of. I subsequently asked my boss and showed him the pictures and he said that there was no way that could be E. angustifolia. When I saw you post your thread I thought it would be beneficial for both you and those interested in doing their own russian olive extractions to correctly identify this tree. I see that my observation has been met with ridicule and an unwelcoming attitude (mullein IDs dude? really?) so I will remain silent and allow this thread/experiment to develop without my input. I wish you well on your extraction and hope it turns out positive for you.

 

[taterboard]

i just had the ID confirmed by the head of the biology department at a local university. it is indeed russian olive. here are a series of pictures from mostly the same tree but then a few more also so you can have an idea of the variety within the species according to its age.

pictures 1-5 are of the tree you said is not a russian olive. upon closer examination you will see that it is. picture 6 is from a nearby russian olive of similar height that had more developed leaves and there was a break in the overcast sky which allowed better lighting so the silver really stands out. 7 is a young shrub sized bush (7-8 ft) that is probably under 10 years old. picture 8 is of an old tree that is now dead. in the cross section of the bark (where you can see its distinctive layers) youll notice the deep red color as well as the fact that this was once a branch from the stubby 2 ft trunk and there was also another. so, initially, there were three big branches that came out from the trunk but 2 have been removed so it takes on a tree like shape rather that a gigantic shrub.

hope this helps. i double and triple checked before extracting and its common knowledge here this is russian olive.

 

[taterboard]

im linking a few from the USDAs website (some that are taller than 7m) the attached image is my locale.

 

[taterboard]

I only pointed this out because after my boss taught me the woody plants of our region, I found out Russian Olive has beta carbolines and began to harvest my own leaves and twigs/bark. I was curious as to what you were doing and saw that the tree you presented was quite alien from any Russian Olive I had ever encountered or read monographs of. I subsequently asked my boss and showed him the pictures and he said that there was no way that could be E. angustifolia. When I saw you post your thread I thought it would be beneficial for both you and those interested in doing their own russian olive extractions to correctly identify this tree. I see that my observation has been met with ridicule and an unwelcoming attitude (mullein IDs dude? really?) so I will remain silent and allow this thread/experiment to develop without my input. I wish you well on your extraction and hope it turns out positive for you.

i was already going out this afternoon to harvest mullein. im not IDing it and didnt post pictures. the mullein i harvest is about 2 minutes from that tree you maintain is incorrectly identified. i just think it strange that once i post the pictures and have established a positive ID you wont acknowledge it. this IS russian olive but this has gotten completely off track. im talking about an extraction on a correctly IDd tree. alkaloids are to be tested this week so once the report is on that ill post it at topia and get a link or something up here.