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Safely dosing Belladonna

Migrated topic.
If onE ABSOLUTELY (e.g. sarin gas attack whilst nearby a nightshade, stuck in the wilderness with no access or ability to afford proper medical care and treatment, etc.) wishes to go the "naturopathic" way and use unknown quantities of anticholinergic belladonna family tropane alkaloids, which have a dangerously high dose-response curve and extraordinarily narrow therapeutic index alongside horrid days-long deliriant/PNS side effects if overdosed on, PLEASE USE CAUTION AND DO SO UNDER SOME KIND OF SUPERVISION FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE YOU IN ALTERED STATES, AND WHEN TO GET THE PARAMEDICS INVOLVED INCASE OF OD-RELATED COMPLICATIONS.

FFS, I feel fortunate for getting relief from the common cold for a day or so when I had 1 datura matel seed (read: 1 seed. no more.) The next day, symptoms resumed, and I chucked two seeds down my gullet. During those following 50 hours, I not only got complete relief from the remained of the symptoms of influenza, but also felt as though I were haunted by the tortured specter of The Angel of Death begging me to join him in that, the void, the great undiscovered country, from whose bourne no traveler returns....

I consider myself fortunate to have been cognizant enough to know it was a short spell of demoniac delirium resulting from an ACCIDENTAL overdose (1 seed over the line, sweet jesus, one seed over the line...) of dangerous tropane alkaloids, and knew that this very real feeling delusion of a demon constantly urging me to kill myself, to quit life before I had yet to live it, was a mere delusion. The most sickening, revolting drug-induced delusion I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. Two days of constant inner strife, starvation and delirium was not worth the sinus/bronchial relief I achieved from the seeds of this devilish weed. Not a good bargain at all, indeed.

FFS NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER PLAY WITH THESE THINGS, EVEN FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES. SO MUCH AS 1 SMALL SEED MAY BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DAYS' WORTH OF SINUS/THROAT CONGESTION RELIEF, AND BEING HAUNTED BY AN INNER DELUSION OF A SIREN CONSISTENTLY TELLING ONE TO KILL THEMSELVES CONSTANTLY FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT.


I had this unfortunate experience many years ago, and ever since, have always resorted to far far far safer herbs and medications which work just as well, if not better, than solanaceous tropane alkaloid containing plants when it comes to curing a case of the sniffles. FFS I advise no person to attempt to consume these plants for any reason, under or for any condition at all.

TL;DR NEVER CONSUME SOLANACEOUS PLANTS WHICH CONTAIN NOTABLE LEVELS OF PSYCHOACTIVE DELIRIANT-TROPANE ALKALOIDS FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. PLEASE. TO DO SO IS TANTAMOUNT TO PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH YOUR FUTURE LIFE.
 
Remember: their dose-response curves are as sharp as a marble wall, with a therapeutic window as narrow as your pinky. Even if it was a cultivar with known alkaloid content per amount mass, don't do it. Never even think of trying these plants out as "medicines". Do not ingest any belladonna/datura in any form, unless its a food product (i.e. tomatoes, potatoes, etc.)

Stay Safe and Stay Well away from those demonic nightshades...
 
Your over hyping godsmacker. The op already said 10 times he's looking for safety related information and said another 10 times that he was very much Aware of the dangers of the Tropane alkaloids.

Small amounts can be used safely no problem. Start with the smallest possible amount and move very very slowly up until you achieve some symptom relief.

I would love it if a mature discussion of datura species would come up without a hundred people going nuts about the dangers. In most cases guys if someone is going to start a thread about datura, they Already are aware of these dangers.

And you say one seed threw you over the line from no side effects to the experience you describe.. I'm sorry but I find this hard to swallow... it's unlikely there would be any effects at all at that amount but it depends on which species your talking about I suppose.

lastly they are not demonic, misunderstood, yes but demonic, no. Can they be used for demonic purposes maybe but the plant is not inherently evil.

The fear monger ig here is out of hand especially when the op said he was fully AwAre of the dangers. Who exactly are you posting these warnings WITH ALL CAPS to?
 
Again, with a tincture, 1 drop will not be too much. Can work up from there. If one is worried, dilute the tincture so its weaker then take more drops as needed.

As far as evil? I absolutely agree these plants have a darkness to them but it's that darkness that gives them power as spiritual medicines to actually get rid of darkness and demonic energies in someone.

Trying to poison the poison if you will..

From what I understand, the bush Datura is particularly dark.

Where as Brugmansia and Belladona are not inherently as dark. They say demons FLEE at the very scent of Mandrake. These things can be used to bring extreme light into ones spirit if prepared with intention + ritual and ingested while communicating to the spirits of the plant precisely why and how you plan to utilize the next 2 weeks (that's how long subtleties of it stay in your system).


Have to have a respect to not over-dose and be punished for foolishness by being shown demonic visions intent on trying to get you to stay away since you aren't responsible.

Making a 2 week contract with the plant spirits for healing, with a good and specific intention, allows one to start with micro-doses and work with this plant as an ally.
 
Godsmacker said:
If onE ABSOLUTELY (e.g. sarin gas attack whilst nearby a nightshade, stuck in the wilderness with no access or ability to afford proper medical care and treatment, etc.) wishes to go the "naturopathic" way and use unknown quantities of anticholinergic belladonna family tropane alkaloids, which have a dangerously high dose-response curve and extraordinarily narrow therapeutic index alongside horrid days-long deliriant/PNS side effects if overdosed on, PLEASE USE CAUTION AND DO SO UNDER SOME KIND OF SUPERVISION FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE YOU IN ALTERED STATES, AND WHEN TO GET THE PARAMEDICS INVOLVED INCASE OF OD-RELATED COMPLICATIONS.

FFS, I feel fortunate for getting relief from the common cold for a day or so when I had 1 datura matel seed (read: 1 seed. no more.) The next day, symptoms resumed, and I chucked two seeds down my gullet. During those following 50 hours, I not only got complete relief from the remained of the symptoms of influenza, but also felt as though I were haunted by the tortured specter of The Angel of Death begging me to join him in that, the void, the great undiscovered country, from whose bourne no traveler returns....

I consider myself fortunate to have been cognizant enough to know it was a short spell of demoniac delirium resulting from an ACCIDENTAL overdose (1 seed over the line, sweet jesus, one seed over the line...) of dangerous tropane alkaloids, and knew that this very real feeling delusion of a demon constantly urging me to kill myself, to quit life before I had yet to live it, was a mere delusion. The most sickening, revolting drug-induced delusion I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. Two days of constant inner strife, starvation and delirium was not worth the sinus/bronchial relief I achieved from the seeds of this devilish weed. Not a good bargain at all, indeed.

FFS NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER PLAY WITH THESE THINGS, EVEN FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES. SO MUCH AS 1 SMALL SEED MAY BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DAYS' WORTH OF SINUS/THROAT CONGESTION RELIEF, AND BEING HAUNTED BY AN INNER DELUSION OF A SIREN CONSISTENTLY TELLING ONE TO KILL THEMSELVES CONSTANTLY FOR TWO DAYS STRAIGHT.


I had this unfortunate experience many years ago, and ever since, have always resorted to far far far safer herbs and medications which work just as well, if not better, than solanaceous tropane alkaloid containing plants when it comes to curing a case of the sniffles. FFS I advise no person to attempt to consume these plants for any reason, under or for any condition at all.

TL;DR NEVER CONSUME SOLANACEOUS PLANTS WHICH CONTAIN NOTABLE LEVELS OF PSYCHOACTIVE DELIRIANT-TROPANE ALKALOIDS FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. PLEASE. TO DO SO IS TANTAMOUNT TO PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH YOUR FUTURE LIFE.
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Wow, i didn't know that.
I'm never gonna take any datura seeds again, with this in mind.
Thanks for the warning.
 
Every person who has told you not to do this is correct. If over ten people--in this thread ALONE--have repeatedly told you not to open this Pandora's Box, you should take heed of our pleas not to make this mistake. I couldn't care less about "shamanic" use of these poisonous plants over millennia. Taking a long bath in a 35% HCl solution is safer than playing with these plants, which I assume were not analyzed via proper analytical methodologies.


This is a Harm Reduction forum. I do have respect for these nefarious nightshades: all I have taken of these nightshades over the past three years were pictures. I learned my lesson to stay far far far away from this very dangerous, and possibly deathly, family of compounds, and encourage all of my fellow psychonauts & researchers to follow-suit.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Anticholinergic syndrome following an unintentional overdose of scopolamine

Scopolamine hydrobromide (hyoscine) is an antimuscarinic drug which is primarily used in the prophylaxis and treatment of motion sickness and as a premedication to dry bronchial and salivary secretions. In acute overdosage, the main clinical problem is ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


Belladonna (also Atropa belladonna; Nightshade) : Erowid Exp: Main Index

A categorized index of first-person experiences with Belladonna
erowid.org

QED
 
Here is a link to the "proving" of Belladonna in homeopathy literature.

A proving, means that this is some of the accumulated knowledge of homeopaths, about what symptoms of disease, the substance (belladonna in this case), can induce in a healthy person.

(The idea in homeopathy, is to give a dosage smaller than can be detected by measurements in moles, so officially nothing in western science, and if the symptoms of the patient were already alike the symptoms the medicine can cause, but not actively caused by the patient being in contact with the substance, then, a tiny-enough-to-count-as-non-existent dose can cure the same symptoms.)

If you have used Belladonna in a gross dose for IBS, DO NOT USE A HOMEOPATHIC DOSE!!
 
Rivaq's Matilda said:
Here is a link to the "proving" of Belladonna in homeopathy literature.

A proving, means that this is some of the accumulated knowledge of homeopaths, about what symptoms of disease, the substance (belladonna in this case), can induce in a healthy person.

(The idea in homeopathy, is to give a dosage smaller than can be detected by measurements in moles, so officially nothing in western science, and if the symptoms of the patient were already alike the symptoms the medicine can cause, but not actively caused by the patient being in contact with the substance, then, a tiny-enough-to-count-as-non-existent dose can cure the same symptoms.)

If you have used Belladonna in a gross dose for IBS, DO NOT USE A HOMEOPATHIC DOSE!!
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ummmmm

en.wikipedia.org

Homeopathy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TRYING TO GET AT???

I have no clue how to rationalize, let alone even commentate anymore, on how stupid it would be to even contemplate this idea of eating wild nightshade for having these "disease symptoms" which are in fact signs that the drug is causing disease symptoms to manifest (poisoning?).

What is sick and what is healthy is an ethical debate which has been raging on for millennia in medicine, but that, too, is beside the point of this thread, and my message: NEVER INGEST RAW NIGHTSHADE FLESH IN ANY FORM, EVEN IF YOU KNOW EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY ABOUT IT; FFS: A MEASLY 1200 MICROGRAMS OF SCOPOLAMINE MAY BE ENOUGH TO CAUSE DELIRIUM/BLACK-OUTS/ODs IN SOME PATIENTS. DON'T PLAY WITH DEATH, JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE WHO DECIDED TO ADD THE LETTERS MD TO THEIR LAST NAME SAID IT WAS OK TO DO SO. (Homeopathy along with many other schools of herbal medicine are Snake Oil Salesmen, and should be treated as such)


I don't have much time to rage against this waterfall of misinformation, harmful suggestions, pseudo-scientific bullshitzika, etc. so I'll end my feverish tirade with this:

Sigmund Freud said:
Every Man dies on His own Terms.
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Belladona is also lipidophile. It Can be steeped in oil ( olive oil, coconut oil and so on ), and be used orally or transdermally. But it's very tricky and best NOT use either more than microdose and not everyday ! Microdoses daily will still accumulate to stronger and stronger effects, until you reach side effects.

I hardly touch the thing now, but I understand it is safer if smoked or locally applied. But still to treat in very low dosage ( if you feel it can you some good ) and not daily.

For your conditions there is likely a plethora of medicinal herbs that could relieve you, without the inherant risks associated with tropanes alcaloids usage.


Stay safe.
 
Don’t mess with the plant unless highly experienced. Homeopathy is a joke. Ask your MD for Donnatal.

The stuff works wonders if you need it. It’s the only way I’d dose scopolamine.

Stay safe.
 
a1pha said:
Don’t mess with the plant unless highly experienced. Homeopathy is a joke. Ask your MD for Donnatal.

The stuff works wonders if you need it. It’s the only way I’d dose scopolamine.

Stay safe.
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Likewise!


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
a1pha said:
Homeopathy is a joke.
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Did you hear about the guy who was taking a homeopathic pain reliever for his chronic back pain?

Forgot to take his pill and died from an overdose.

ba-dum-tsh :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
i don't think it's right to bash homeopathy. For instance I believe modern medicine to be at the very least incomplete. I had some problems too all over my body, and doctors could tell me literally not one thing as to why, and certainly not what to do about it.

I took full dose mushrooms one night in the midst of this crisis, and began to dance and had visions of how my life was off track, and my body symptoms were physical manifestations of mental and physical problems, and to reverse this cycle I needed to dive deeper into my spirituality and be the best person I can possibly be.

I took this 100% seriously and did make some real changes. Then over the course of the next year I made it my mission to address the spiritual and physical issues based on my own intuition. Looking back on it today I can see the spirit of sickness that hovered over me. I had MRI s done X-rays lab work and they couldn't come up with not one thing even though I had excruciating pain in my right leg that I could barely walk, my penis hurt, my sides hurt, my back hurt, I had constant heartburn all day everyday for 6 months and stomachs ache. I was miserable and often wished for it to stop.

The doctors did literally nothing for me but take my money.

So I say western medicine is a joke it treats symptoms but not disease and in many cases only perpetuates the cycle of disease.

Fast forward 3 years, my leg is strong as ever and can take abuse with 0 pain. Aside from mild muscle backaches infrequently I am in no pain anywhere. Penis is fully functional and more virulent then ever. No heartburn whatsoever no matter what I drink or eat. I am totally healthy and take not one medication for any reason.
 
I recommend the op run a search on this forum and one can actually read people's thoughts on it who are experienced with safely using these plants. The information also exists all over the internet. Currently I have a belladonna and a mandrake salve I use before I go to sleep to give me wicked dreams.
 
roninsina said:
syberdelic said:
Homeopathic = face palm
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I understand the lack of large, reviewed studies can be too tough a pill for many to swallow. I would add my two cents to the anecdotal evidence, however. I've witnessed dramatic effects with homeopathics in both prelinguistic children and in pets - limiting the likelihood of placebo effects. And afaik, Bach's (homeopathic) rescue remedy is still widely used by first responders.


Tropanes are serious business, and finding the sweet spot with a home brew may take some considerable time to do safely. The homeopathic preparations are inexpensive enough to warrant a try in the interim, and certainly a safe dose.
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If anybody cared to do some science about the interactions between homeopathic dilutions of medicines like Belladonna, and psychedelics, perhaps more Westerners might just let homeopathy alone if not wanting to use. Homeopathy is, according to the World Health Organisation, the single most used system of medicine at Earth at this time. Widely used in India, Brazil, and France. Some countries include homeopathy in national vaccine schedules, very effectively.

In recent years, a report was made by the Australian government, about homeopathy, that gave the science of homeopathy an unnecessarily bad rap. As if homeopathy is never more effective than placebo. They started with over 1800 studies to examine, and narrowed that down to only 5 they considered, because the established a parameter for the inclusion of studies, based on stricter guidelines than ever get applied to studies in western medical science. In fact a case is now before the Australian Commonwealth Ombudsman, against that report, on administrative grounds. For example, they chose to eliminate examining any study with a research group of less than 180 individuals, when one of the most resilient and scientific studies in the scientific literature about homeopathy, had 170+, but less than 180 subjects. Every parameter set, was set to exclude the evidence. Then the report made international headlines. Apparently because pharmaceutical companies give big donations to the media.

There are conditions in which homeopathy is ineffective. Good homeopaths can recognize, but not enough homeopathy is being practiced in the wealthy industrialized West, for good homeopaths to be behind what research is getting done. Yet as in the quote from roninsina, it is widely recognized that homeopathy is most likely to be effective on young children, (too young for the placebo effect to work), and in animals, also in recent research in agriculture.

If you want to trash homeopathy, better go ahead and trash the vaccines you got given as children. Because both work the same, stimulating the body into expecting contact with disease, to induce increased immunity.

I think the pharmaceutical industry should go ahead and start prescribing psychedelics instead of backing homeopathy, because the result is likely to be an increase in folks who find that homeopathy is necessary. All indigenous societies with Shaman who rely on psychedelics, have some Shaman who know the principle of "like curing like" and can apply via psychedelics.

If you want to have to fully follow through with integrating into daily life in solid matter, every single image that comes into your mind, go right ahead with trashing homeopathy.

Meanwhile, Duboisia hopwoodii is another, and safer, plant containing scopolamine, and I started a whole thread about Duboisia hopwoodii recent. Including information about how to find. Scopolamine is an inherently risky substance, but the risks are known by indigenous Australians who have chewed Duboisia hopwoodii for thousands of years.
 
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