Salt and Vinegar tech!?

[Ouboet]

Hello friend. I hope I am not an unwelcome novice alchemist?! I thought you should have an interest in Salt. I just don't know anyone. I have been researching Many techs and posts, and I want to know if a Salt and Vinegar tech for Acacia JimJam DMT, or maybe all dmt's, is possible?
Everyone can not pulverized their material, but according to the salt tech, salting is all that is necessary before baseing. So, if the material could be as fine as possible, and salt is added 50/50 to material, and the salt is very fine, and my material has been saturated in water before mixing it in a paste with the salt, thus a dry paste, could I then, say theoretically, 3 days, ad enough vinegar, to use the vinegar as my polar solvent?
If so, how can I get my Dmt's out now, since it's in a salt form, inside a salt-and-vinegar solution?
Evaporating is not an solution, and a non-solvent extraction via zylene and FASA, is also a no go?

Instead maybe, skip the vinegar, and STB, followed by zylene freebase pull, followed by FUSA tech? Will I have my JimJam DMT and the oxidated dmt and the others?

 

[Ouboet]

Maybe evaporate the salt and vinegar, until I sit with salt and dmt crystals (both in their salt form), and pull it with something from the salts only. Using minimal material, and staying save. DMT is stable above 100 Degrees Celsius.

 

[Ouboet]

Tell me it is possible

 

[acacian]

I have also wondered about this.. it would probably drastically reduce the time that the plant matter needs in your extraction solution (be that water, vinegar, ethanol or whatever.. all of the above)... it may even work to absorb fats as well. Pure speculation on my behalf here .. but it seems reasonable that after considerable time in salt, your plant matter could be given a fairly quick wash with vinegar and would be broken down enough that the alkaloids would be easily released

stiffer varieties of acacia phyllodes may benefit from this treatment before initial extraction.. I'll have to experiment

 

[Ouboet]

While I am in the main hall, , maybe someone can direct me in the following.
With the Q21Q21 Vinegar/Lime tech, I have a question.
The JimJam DMT that one has extracted, and condensed to a goo, can I use FASA tech to cristallise the JimJam, and so having it in a long lasting, stable form?

 

[Ouboet]

Salt is an amazing thing. Thanks to dmt-nexus forum, I am using the thinking in my cooking.
Salting the water when cooking it, a bit more than I should , cracked the egg shell, and it peals much better.
I acidify my food, right after I salted it in oil, while opening the flavors of the herbs and spices in the salt/heat treatment.
I must basefy something into my cooking oil, maybe cannabis.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

To use the FASA tek, as per the instructions if you dissolve the jimjam in acetone first, then add FASA, you should get a precipitate of DMT fumarate. If you want 'full spectrum' fumarates you can try evaporating the liquid that's left over after the FASA fumarate crystals have been separated to see if anything was left in solution.

Any residue you might collect by evaporating like this may or may not be fumarates of whatever it is. The amount of excess fumaric acid can be calculated if you make very careful measurements of the amount of FASA used and the amount of DMT fumarate which you collected.


It's best not to do this while stoned or otherwise intoxicated, of course...

 

[Ouboet]

Living off the grid, and there is a toddler, that soos can find his way to my workshop, cost and safety is my main concern.
Acetone can probably pull up the dmt's? Will it pull the salt also?
Then the dmt, or hopefully the whole range is in the acetone.
Maybe FASA can be incorporated?
No nasty acids or bases especially.

Only soduim carbonate, maybe, which is a way safer product if used correctly. It makes a nasty fizz when put into the acidic solution when I base for my zylene pulls. One acid to serve all my needs?!

Guys, I have not done this, I am waiting for my fumaric acid and 99.9% acetone, but courier service and lab supplies is closed for Christmas. .
I have 4 experiments that need to be pulled,all already basefied. Don't judge me, I couldn't help myself, and I have to much time.
Acacia cyclops, Acacia longifolia, Acacia longifolia cancer, Echlonia maxima. Then I found out my acetone that I bought from the hardware, was not right. The wife can clean nails forever now. But I have to get the right acetone, and do the FASA tech.
It could be much more cost effective to first freeze out crystals in the zylene, and FUSA tech the Chrystals/goo afterwards?

 

[Ouboet]

I appreciate the response, and that is good news, as the Q21Q21 tech to me is more in a different social environment, if you know what I am saying. So if I only have the JimJam crystal, it is still a storable and stable solution. It is a salt now. I know it is not smoking material.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Crystals will not freeze precipitate out of xylene.

Have you checked out the Eco friendly extraction teks subforum yet? There should be some things there to point you in the right direction.

Do you know what other solvents might be available in your area? Butyl acetate might be worth a try if you can find some.

 

[Ouboet]

Thanks for your time.
Can you maybe tell me what the Na2CO3 is actually for in the FASA method. I am now using it to Base my solution, as I don't know why it's actually part of the material needed a according to the tech. Where does it fit in. I have 1kg of the stuff.

 

[Ouboet]

Thanks for your time.
Can you maybe tell me what the Na2CO3 is actually for in the FASA method. I am now using it to Base my solution, as I don't know why it's actually part of the material needed a according to the tech. Where does it fit in. I have 1kg of the stuff.

 

[Ouboet]

Now this changes everything. Salt is not soluble in Acetone.
My idea can then work?
Vinegar can then be my polar solvent, salt to break down the cells, freeing the DMT molecules.
Evaporation of my solvent to a point where no vinegar smell is detected anymore.
Pull the Dmt's out of the dry salt/DMT crystals via acetone
FASA the DMT salt out of the acetone.
Can this work?

 

[Ouboet]

My first trial is going.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for your time.
Can you maybe tell me what the Na2CO3 is actually for in the FASA method. I am now using it to Base my solution, as I don't know why it's actually part of the material needed a according to the tech. Where does it fit in. I have 1kg of the stuff.

The sodcarb is there as a base to convert the DMT into its freebase form. If it turned out that there was a DMT salt that was soluble in anhydrous acetone then it would in principle be possible to precipitate the DMT using fumaric acid, and without needing to convert to the freebase with sodcarb first. Is that the basis of what you're planning to try here?

The data is a bit lacking on what DMT salts, if any, are soluble in acetone. It seems like you'd be better off following the sodcarb freebase route and doing the FASA from an acetone pull of that.

My first trial is going.

What method(s) are you using?

 

[Ouboet]

My thinking is:
* Grating the material with a hand grater. (Actually did it today with the fine part, and it worked great for the Acacia root bark. It's nice and fine)
* I then added 100g of NaCl to 100g bark. (I boiled the salt in 100ml of water, and the mix was over saturated). I added the hot mix to the bark in a Mason jar, and it just covered the material.
*Now it must stand like that for 3 days. (3 sounds good)
* There after the fluids will have to be evaporated, leaving a dry salt/bark mix.
* The vinegar will then be added. Exactly how much, I will see.
* Leave it for 3 days.
* Strain out all the vinegar, and wash the material with water. There will be a lot of fluids now.
* Evaporate the fluids till 100% dry. Now here I am glad that DMT can handle heat. No lid, just roaring boiling.
* The dry cristallised salts to be collected carefully and put in a small glass dish.
* Acetone added to collect the DMT crystals.
* FASA added to the Acetone to presipatate the DMT crystals.

What am I not taking into consideration?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

* Evaporate the fluids till 100% dry. Now here I am glad that DMT can handle heat. No lid, just roaring boiling.

Use a steam bath/bain Marie to evaporate your liquid - this will prevent it from burning.

* Acetone added to collect the DMT crystals.

I'm not convinced you'll dissolve much DMT from the crude evaporated material this way. It will still be interesting to see whether anything comes out of a FASA on an acetone pull of this acidified material. It would make more sense to treat the concentrated fluids with some sodium carbonate before completely drying it. Then you'd stand a much better chance of finding something in the acetone pull.

It would still be interesting to see whether, for example, DMT acetate would dissolve from the crude solid extract into acetone though. You could try a preliminary test on a small portion of the material fully evaporated without adding any base. This post: dmt acetate is soluble in acetone ? would seem to suggest that it may work. It works for the pure acetate!

Your best bet would seem to be to do an acetone pull on the solid crude extract with out sodcarb, then after that mix the residue to a paste with sodcarb and water, dry and pull again. FASA separately the acid pull and the base pull and see which one's the winner!

 

[Ouboet]

I think you are right. I could use candle power as a source to evaporate the acidic vinegar solution.
Then when I have a small amount of solution left, add soduim carbonate, like you suggested. Now I have a strong base.
Less acetone can now be used to pull all the dmt-related crystals.
Now maybe presipatate out the dmt salts.

I appreciate your inputs. It is still theoretical, and I am learning so much.
The JimJam DMT is actually what I am after, as I am using Acacia cyclops . I know this species is not ideal for this trial, but the uprooted tree was lying on the beach as I took a walk yesterday. I believe it was sent. Acacia cyclops is an environmental disaster here, and people will pay you to remove them, thus I have to try. I did get a yellow grease in a previous pull, my knowledge was just so restricted, and I didn't know about FASA.

 

[Ouboet]

But like you suggested, I might do a small experiment, in the name of science, with 100% dry evaporated acidic solution.
Thinking again. Now I can not pull with acetone, as there will be water still in the base solution.
I guess zylene will first have to be used to pull, and then FASA.
But that defeat my whole goal.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

If you have the dried extract from the vinegar pulls you can see if acetone will dissolve any DMT acetate from that. The acetone extract can then be treated with FASA. If nothing, or very little, shows up you can still make a paste with the initial extract and sodcarb. Let that dry, then pull with acetone. FASA that acetone and you should see results.

Your fumarate will likely be pink but that can be cleaned up if necessary.

Acetone separates from a solution of sodium hydroxide, btw. You might want to check if it separates from concentrated sodium carbonate solution, too.