Salt

[ChemisTryptaMan]

I wanted to mention here quickly that I am in the middle of a STB tek where I follow the same proportions of Lye:Naptha:Water:MHRB. In this case I am using 100 g MHRB. I had recently been thinking about the effect of the ionic strength of the aqueous layer in the efficiency of the reaction. I decided to add 150g of crude salt to the mix to see if more spice is pushed into the NPS. I havent yet added the Naptha, but I just checked the jars and in each of them there is a very thin(about a half of a millimeter) layer of oil floating on top of the solution. This leads me to believe that the plant oils are being forced out of the solution. It stands to reason then that all non-polar molecules are less soluble in the aqueous mix. I hope this translates into more efficient pulls but now fear an issue with the oil content. I will let all of you know how my pulls turn out, but think this may be a valuable addition to the already simple to use STB tek. With an A/B tek where no oil is present, I think adding salt to the mix may turn out to be even more beneficial. I have done this before with much smaller amounts of salt but never enough to raise the ionic strength enough to make a considerable difference. Thoughts?


Edit: I should have left a few jars without the salt just to compare. The closest thing to a control that I have is the last few jars I only added 90 to 100g instead of the 150g I added to the rest of them.

 

[ChemisTryptaMan]

Sure, none of the spice has been damaged so an A/B treatment should recover all that is still in there. Hope this helps.

 

[cyb]

Just thought I would add a note to all those who are experimenting.

Increasing salt content (too much) seems to have a negative effect on yield...

Just finishing up experimenting with an STB using Twice the amount of salt:
100g MHRB
70g Salt (twice usual)
60g Lye (twice usual)
750ml De-ionised Water.

Result:
Large amount of sticky oil comes out with reduced crystals growing. (If I understand right-freebase dmt is a clear oil!)Once dried for a while (with fan), however, and scraped up with snow globes, still produces a fair amount.
Re-xing the sticky result produces nice fluffy product. (needs this step)

Expected total yield is 1.5-1.7%. (Still good but not 2+% we're after)

Conclusion:
Use 1 to 1.5% salt per g of bark
(ie. 50g Bark - 20/25g salt)

1st two pulls drag 85% of total yield...After 6 pulls the mix was depleted.

I would add that lye content also excessive but not sure if that is a hindrance.

Good luck Nexians...and High Yields for All...

 

[Ancotar]

This topic greatly interests me, thank you for sharing!

I, too, will experiment with this in my next STB extractions and if possible will post pics and results!

 

[cyb]

Bumping this thread to help the spike in newbie xtracts...

 

[3rdI]

hey cyb, how you doing?

i was wondering if you have tried performing an ext without any salt until all/most of the DMT has been pulled and then adding salt to see if it forces out any more DMT from the previously spent MHRB mix?

i am going to be running some new extractions in the next month and im gonna start experimenting with adding salt and i think we should try to get through as many possiblities as possible.

 

[cyb]

hey cyb, how you doing?

i was wondering if you have tried performing an ext without any salt until all/most of the DMT has been pulled and then adding salt to see if it forces out any more DMT from the previously spent MHRB mix?

i am going to be running some new extractions in the next month and im gonna start experimenting with adding salt and i think we should try to get through as many possiblities as possible.

Hey 3rdI

Yes I've done that...I have added salt to a spent jar (6 pulls done)...It pulled some clear oily goo with no xtals...still smelled active but I couldn't be bothered to retrieve it from the dish. I could have wiped it round with some herbs and got a hit out of it though.

I have also run around 5 xtracts since then ...all using salt...and experimented on all aspects of time/heat/agitation/content/ratios etc.

The outcome of this was that Salt gave me 2% yield on every xtract... Except when I doubled the salt amount (gave 1.7%).

Cleanest results were from quick pulls..
Largest results were from heating/agitating/long time pulls (greater saturation)....but also pulled yellow oils/fats which needed a Re-x to seperate...so just lengthened the process overall.

After all the experimenting I can conclude that SALT DOES WORK..
and in my opinion should be added to all 'Wet' STB teks..

I would not extract without it now...might as well get the most out of the bark.

Feel free to ask any questions

Cyb

 

[3rdI]

good stuff, looks like i will just go with adding the salt first.

i will report back when i have done my next ext.

cheers cyb

 

[cyb]

good stuff, looks like i will just go with adding the salt first.

i will report back when i have done my next ext.

cheers cyb

Great...will be good to get others experimenting and posting results..:d

BTW. dissolve the salt in small amount of hot water first (saturate) and then add the dissolved lye/water mix...that way you get your water amounts correct.

 

[3rdI]

will do, cheers mate

 

[berryman]

This topic is fascinating!

If anyone who is knowledgeable about this is still around, I have a question -- I see that adding salt helps to prevent emulsion, but would it also work to fix emulsions that have already arisen? I'm not sure if I wish to try salt or more lye first, so hopefully somebody can answer.

Also when we're talking about ratios, is it 1g bark:1g salt? Just clarifying, as I am not too sure.

Thanks!

 

[cyb]

This topic is fascinating!

If anyone who is knowledgeable about this is still around, I have a question -- I see that adding salt helps to prevent emulsion, but would it also work to fix emulsions that have already arisen? I'm not sure if I wish to try salt or more lye first, so hopefully somebody can answer.

Also when we're talking about ratios, is it 1g bark:1g salt? Just clarifying, as I am not too sure.

Thanks!

Yes just pour in 25g per 50g bark (dissolved in a little hot water) into your mix and shake it up...it should nullify your emulsion problem quite quickly..

 

[berryman]

This topic is fascinating!

If anyone who is knowledgeable about this is still around, I have a question -- I see that adding salt helps to prevent emulsion, but would it also work to fix emulsions that have already arisen? I'm not sure if I wish to try salt or more lye first, so hopefully somebody can answer.

Also when we're talking about ratios, is it 1g bark:1g salt? Just clarifying, as I am not too sure.

Thanks!

Yes just pour in 25g per 50g bark (dissolved in a little hot water) into your mix and shake it up...it should nullify your emulsion problem quite quickly..

Cool. So 227g for 1lb of bark. Does the salt form a layer of it's own or does it stay with the sludge?

 

[cyb]

That should be fine 200g...it wont form a layer...the saline will just integrate and raise the ionic strength of the mix, pushing more spice into the NPS.
Hopefully you will have a fair bit of water in the jar with 1lb.
Post back and let us know how long it takes to break down the emulsion...

 

[berryman]

That should be fine 200g...it wont form a layer...the saline will just integrate and raise the ionic strength of the mix, pushing more spice into the NPS.
Hopefully you will have a fair bit of water in the jar with 1lb.
Post back and let us know how long it takes to break down the emulsion...

There's about half a gallon of water with the 1(ish)lb of lye and 1lb of shredded/powdered MHRB...1/2 Liter of my Naptha seemed to have emulsified because my pulls didn't contain nearly the 1L I ended up using. I plan on dissolving the 200g of salt in a few cups of warm water before adding it to my sludge, as I'm sure it needs more.

I'll report back when I can try this.

 

[ziggus]

Just out of curiosity, I tried using a greatly reduced amount of salt on a q21q21 extraction and I believe there is some benefit to purity, with no penalty to yield.

I used:

200g mhrb (previous 2 extractions on this bark yielded 1.1% w/standard q21q21 naphtha tek)
200ml vinegar
25g kosher salt dissolved in -
200ml 185F tap water
200g lime

My yield was 1.2%, so I was happy about the .1% increase, but what I found more interesting was the behavior of the plant fats. Previous extractions with this bark gave me nice white crystals, but there was always a slightly gooey film under the crystals (sometimes with several embedded yellow flecks) that was slower to dry.

When I took the first pull out of the freezer, there was one yellow blob of plant fats about 1/2 inch in diameter floating on the surface of the naphtha. I stuck a dinner knife under the blob and pulled it out quite easily, as it stuck to the knife. Subsequent pulls continued to produce one floating blob, with the only difference being that the size of the blob got smaller with each pull.

There was still the thin film under the crystals, which q21q21 believes is jungle/n-oxide, but it was quicker to dry, and when scraped up and mixed in with the top crystals, the final product was less waxy than my standard q21q21 crystals before re-x.

So… if you don't normally re-x, and want fewer plant fats in your product, you might want to give this a try.

 

[robertplant]

Will the addition of salts improve the yield when Limonene is used in place of Naptha?

 

[cyb]

Will the addition of salts improve the yield when Limonene is used in place of Naptha?

If Limonene is a non polar solvent...then Yes!

 

[clockworktemple]

i really like that evil haha going to try it but surely you could use a food safe base like sodium bicarbonate? or ammonia ? really hate lye but have never done a food safe extraction.

 

[clockworktemple]

im going to throw this out here: i had a friend tell me he has been salt precip from naptha the science seems sound i cant find anywhere in this welcome area on it anyone tried it?

 

[cyb]

i had a friend tell me he has been salt precip from naptha

This makes no sense...