It seems that quite a bit of the orange oil binds to the water somehow. It smells and tastes like oranges..pretty sour. How much orange oil is safe to ingest? Swim says, it burns a bit on his tongue, but not much.
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Salting out Mescaline Carbonate using Seltzer Water
- Thread starter amor_fati
- Start date
rumplestiltskin said:
SWIM tried 100mg the other night and felt effects fairly quick (couldn't say when) and stayed up for some time.
Two of SWIM's salting attempts were with pure carbonated water, and no vinegar.
rumplestiltskin
Rising Star
Sounds like good news! About how much more seltzer water is used per pull? Keep SWIU posted, this tek is becoming quite promising.
obliguhl said:
Someone here once suggested to pour the the acid solution (vinegar or seltzer) through a funnel plugged with a cotton ball and the solution would drip down and the few drops of limonene left over would be trapped in the cotton ball.
I can't wait to see everyone's results with seltzer water, very interesting.
obliguhl said:
I drank some orange oil once.... very tangy
Too tangy some might say.Only thing with having a little extra orange oil is that you probably will have a few impurities from the cactus but I really wouldn't worry about this.
It's still a whole world away from eating all your cactus matter... which some people do
Myzinc
Rising Star
SWIM has been reading about Salting out Mescaline Carbonate using Seltzer Water. SWIM is very eager to try this with leftover d-limonene from vinegar pulls. SWIM can only find Seltzer Water with ingredients like: carbonated water, sodium bicarbonate, sodium citrate, potassium sulfate, disodium phosphate. SWIM would like to find a brand name that would be only carbonated water. Ingredients listed are from Canada dry low sodium.
Does anyone have a suggestion of a name brand?
Does anyone think Canada dry will be OK?
Does anyone have a suggestion of a name brand?
Does anyone think Canada dry will be OK?
rellik
Rising Star
69ron said:
water solubility maybe? which i believe would affect speed of tissue diffusion.
that and the fact that swimmers are starting from natural sources with more than one compound. Maybe the acetate method pulls more alkaloids than the carbonate method. Has anyone compared "mescaline" carbonate formed directly using seltzer tek and mescaline carbonate from seltzer tek converted to acetate using vinegar?
i think carbonate would want to become acetate if mixed with vinegar but i forget my chem.
DreaMTripper
Rising Star
Great work people!! Is anyone going to post up a full tek with the various amounts and ratios needed? WOuld be extremely grateful! This is ideal its low key and at a good low cost.
Would cooling the limonene then salting with seltzer water give a greater chance of salting the maximum amount by reducing the solubility of the alks in the limonene even further?
Would cooling the limonene then salting with seltzer water give a greater chance of salting the maximum amount by reducing the solubility of the alks in the limonene even further?
SWIM's been having trouble getting this to work lately. He can't seem to get the powder he was getting before. When he tries to salt directly with seltzer, he ends up with only a small amount of red goo that doesn't seem to be quite as potent as would be expected by weight. However, if he does an initial pull vinegar (even a small amount), subsequent pulls with seltzer work just fine, but seem to be contaminated with acetate and yield what seems to be a combination of acetate and carbonate. SWIM doesn't know exactly what may account for this, but he suspects a small amount of lime contamination in the limonene (not a visible aqueous layer, though) that increases the pH of the seltzer water, rendering it unable to salt. A small amount of vinegar (a few drops, perhaps?) mixed in with the seltzer may be necessary to keep the pH low enough to salt and pull.
SWIM had attmepted to pull directly with seltzer a few times, yielding only goo, but when he used a small amount of vinegar to pull from the same limonene, the result was much more sandy in consistency (like carbonate) than regular vinegar pulls. Is it possible that carbon dioxide had remained in the limonene and only converted to carbonic acid when coming into contact with the vinegar? Subsequent pulls with seltzer apparently had significant acetate contamination, as mentioned above, so SWIM thinks that limonene could be holding onto small amounts of acetic acid.
SWIM has another theory regarding this, as well: That the vinegar can potentially serve to sort of defat the limonene so that after a few vinegar pulls, the seltzer can yield a more pure carbonate product. SWIM hasn't gotten around to testing his seemingly more pure carbonate product, yet, though, so he can't say for sure that it is nearly pure mescaline or something else. His browner carbonate was certainly active and decently potent, though, so SWIM's hopeful.
If any other SWIY's could try this and report their results, it would be very helpful. Once this is sorted out, SWIM could start testing solubility and methods of purification.
SWIM had attmepted to pull directly with seltzer a few times, yielding only goo, but when he used a small amount of vinegar to pull from the same limonene, the result was much more sandy in consistency (like carbonate) than regular vinegar pulls. Is it possible that carbon dioxide had remained in the limonene and only converted to carbonic acid when coming into contact with the vinegar? Subsequent pulls with seltzer apparently had significant acetate contamination, as mentioned above, so SWIM thinks that limonene could be holding onto small amounts of acetic acid.
SWIM has another theory regarding this, as well: That the vinegar can potentially serve to sort of defat the limonene so that after a few vinegar pulls, the seltzer can yield a more pure carbonate product. SWIM hasn't gotten around to testing his seemingly more pure carbonate product, yet, though, so he can't say for sure that it is nearly pure mescaline or something else. His browner carbonate was certainly active and decently potent, though, so SWIM's hopeful.
If any other SWIY's could try this and report their results, it would be very helpful. Once this is sorted out, SWIM could start testing solubility and methods of purification.
69ron said:
SWIM once tried adding several drops of glacial acetic acid to mescaline infused limonene to try and get it to precipitate out, but it seemed to simply dissolve into the limonene, later on (maybe the next day) he noticed a small red liquid layer had formed at the bottom, so he added some water and retrieved an excellent product. SWIM believes that he probably could've kept adding water and continued to pull acetate.
SWIM would like someone try adding a few drops of vinegar to seltzer and try salting with it. SWIM won't have the resources for this for a while.
PlainCoil
Rising Star
Well, just using seltzer water in place of vinegar worked great at least once for SWIM.
Maybe using dry ice and distilled water is a better way to go. One ends up using huge amounts of seltzer water, it takes forever to evaporate, and the bottle loses its carbonation after a day or two.
Does anyone know how much dry ice should be added to how much water (in an open container of course), by chance?
Maybe using dry ice and distilled water is a better way to go. One ends up using huge amounts of seltzer water, it takes forever to evaporate, and the bottle loses its carbonation after a day or two.
Does anyone know how much dry ice should be added to how much water (in an open container of course), by chance?
PlainCoil said:
SWIM thought that SWIY had used limonene that had previously been salted with vinegar? SWIM understands that the seltzer water is being used in place of vinegar, but has been finding that unless he uses the vinegar (or possibly adding some to the seltzer) for an initial pull, seltzer doesn't seem to work very well.
SWIM has had great results with seltzer water, but still no consistent results.
SWIM will have to try a repeat experiment with fresh limonene, if he has anything left in his cactus. He's really hoping that he merely made a mistake.
PlainCoil
Rising Star
SWIM tried both, with good results each time.
SWIM thinks the key might be using fresh seltzer water, as the carbonation goes down and more and more of it is required for the same results.
By the end of the extraction, SWIM was getting waxes instead of crystal solids. In fact, much of the yield from the seltzer water extraction ended up a waxy orange consistency. SWIM ate 250mg of this waxy orange stuff (like STB spice evaporations) to good effect, then cleaned it up and ended up with tan crystal and a loss of 150mg or so.
The cleaning up process wasn't anything more than dissolving in hot water, then filtering through cotton. Later on, SWIM heated up some more water and poured it through the filter to gather any undissolved alks. This dried up very nice.
So yeah, SWIM doesn't know, but he'll keep updated.
SWIM thinks the key might be using fresh seltzer water, as the carbonation goes down and more and more of it is required for the same results.
By the end of the extraction, SWIM was getting waxes instead of crystal solids. In fact, much of the yield from the seltzer water extraction ended up a waxy orange consistency. SWIM ate 250mg of this waxy orange stuff (like STB spice evaporations) to good effect, then cleaned it up and ended up with tan crystal and a loss of 150mg or so.
The cleaning up process wasn't anything more than dissolving in hot water, then filtering through cotton. Later on, SWIM heated up some more water and poured it through the filter to gather any undissolved alks. This dried up very nice.
So yeah, SWIM doesn't know, but he'll keep updated.
PlainCoil said:
THis is what SWIM thought the first time he got bad results (small amount of red goo), but he salted the same limonene with fresh seltzer and got the same results. Then he tried it with a a small amount of vinegar and got the sandiest vinegar pull he's ever gotten (leading him to believe that either CO2 or carbonic acid had remained in limonene) and subsequent seltzer pulls yielded a mixture of wax and crystals.
SWIM doesn't doubt that the seltzer reduces in effectiveness with time, but not to the degree to be the cause SWIM's problems, it would seem.
SWIM got the same bad results using fresh limonene and seltzer water. SWIM's had this repeat about four times now.
Merkaba188
Rising Star
Any brand of club soda is going to have carbonated water plus some or all of the preservatives you listed. What you want to look for is "Sparkling Water" which should have only the sole ingredient of carbonated water. Brands will probably vary, but around here you can find Faygo brand sparkling water pretty easily. Though, I have no idea if that would contain enough carbonic acid or not. If you use enough tabs, would Seltzer have a lot higher concentration than your average carbonated water would?Myzinc said:
Amor, since SWIY is now having trouble getting carbonate using seltzer alone, has he thought of maybe adding some glacial acetic acid to the carbonated water? I think you said somewhere earlier that using glacial acetic acid and dH2O got SWIY the purest acetate result, so what would using carbonated water instead of dH2O do? That would be pretty awesome if SWIY ended up with pure mescaline acetacarbonate (lol I have no idea what compound acetate+carbonate would make). If combining the two is possible, I think it would be the best way to go. You wouldn't have to deal with the smell of vinegar, and would have an easier end product to work with.
I also saw that somebody mentioned in another thread using food grade phosphoric acid. Is mescaline phosphate possible, and how would it compare to hydrochloride, acetate, or carbonate?
I have absolutely no chemical knowledge, so the chance of either of these working is probably slim. If someone is willing to PM me a reputable source for some high-alkaloid torch, SWIM would be willing to give it a go.
*EDIT*
69Ron, since you don't want any PMs, I thought I should post this thread here regarding supplies (dehydrator, etc.):