-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Salting out Mescaline Carbonate using Seltzer Water
- Thread starter amor_fati
- Start date
PlainCoil
Rising Star
SWIM followed this process:
Open new bottle of seltzer water
Add liberal amount (200-1000 ml) to limonene either fresh from cactus soak or already salted w/ vinegar)
Shake the hell out of in sealed container, usually used plastic seltzer water bottle (making sure the plastic does not dissolve in limonene)
Keep shaking intermittently over a couple hours, without releasing pressure
Draw bottom water layer off w/ pipette, avoiding orange oil layer
Evap in glass dish in front of a fan - no heat
Usually results in nice rock shaped crystals that scrape up quite dry and powdery. Occasionally seems to end up in goo if used with old limonene. Also can end up a kind of sticky, waxy, slightly orange powder. SWIM thinks this is from excess d-limo in the evap stage. Regardless, 250mg was psychoactively where it should be.
SWIM thinks the sealed container might be necessary, as he has had unsuccessful attempts with an open container. MIght be another factor though...
Open new bottle of seltzer water
Add liberal amount (200-1000 ml) to limonene either fresh from cactus soak or already salted w/ vinegar)
Shake the hell out of in sealed container, usually used plastic seltzer water bottle (making sure the plastic does not dissolve in limonene)
Keep shaking intermittently over a couple hours, without releasing pressure
Draw bottom water layer off w/ pipette, avoiding orange oil layer
Evap in glass dish in front of a fan - no heat
Usually results in nice rock shaped crystals that scrape up quite dry and powdery. Occasionally seems to end up in goo if used with old limonene. Also can end up a kind of sticky, waxy, slightly orange powder. SWIM thinks this is from excess d-limo in the evap stage. Regardless, 250mg was psychoactively where it should be.
SWIM thinks the sealed container might be necessary, as he has had unsuccessful attempts with an open container. MIght be another factor though...
It's enough to shake it for like 20 seconds, doing 3 pulls with fresh water
Good call regarding the pressure, plaincoil. Large IPA or peroxide bottles seem to work well for holding that pressure. Hopefully the bio-assays turn out successful.
Clever choice Plaincoil and astute observation Amor fati!
I wonder what amount of water or water droplets can remain in the limonene ,actually turning co2 into carbonic acid. However it is ,even the atmosphere of the container has some water vapor so it cannot be considered anhydrous which could actually help the proccess.
How exactly? Well i think a piece of the puzzle comes from another "sibling" topic, that of HCl gassing ,where HCl gas was bubbled through the non polar solvent to yield the total alkaloidal content as salt precipitate. Bear with me for a bit:
In "The nook" ,there was a thread by a member called "Me!" (who apparently seems to be missing now) on HCl gassing. He commented that while gassing with a submerged hose the crystals that formed where too small ,sometimes passing through filters : keep in mind though that he did not elaborate what filters he used so i assume coffee filters so i wonder if things are different with vacuum filtration. So ,and here comes the nice part, he tried passive diffusion of Hcl :He did not bubble through his non polar layer, but rather pressurised slightly the vessel with HCl gas.The result? Slowly the gass diffused through the non polar , giving BIGGER crystal formations! It worked and actually gave better results!
For those with access over at nook here are the threads (i hope linking to other forums is not agains Nexus policy,please inform me if it is so!):
So, one could try a sealed vessel, that is increased pressure. And this also brings in the topic the use of a small quantity of dry ice : Granded ,its not as easily found as seltzer water but still, its worth a try. If seltzer works i cant see why dry ice in water wouldnt work. Also an experiment would be interesting to see if lower temperatures could help the procedure: They could both lower mescaline solubility in the non polar layer, plus increase solubility of CO2 in water/non-polar (gases generally follow the opposite principle compared to solids as far as solubility in liquids go: as temperature drops they are more soluble in liquids, hence a warm beer or warm fizzy drink goes flat quicker than a cold one)
damiana
Cosmic Dragon
Has anyone tried mescaline saturated d-limo that hasn't been precipitated with acetate, but instead precipitated with seltzer water and the shaking was done under pressure? The reason I ask is because maybe the precipitation with seltzer water didn't work for some because it wasn't mixed under pressure.
PlainCoil
Rising Star
SWIM has messed around with dry ice a little bit, finding it not to work as well as seltzer water.
This could be the reason; SWIM was always afraid of sealing his containers when they had dry ice bubbling furiously in them (remembering 'dry ice bombs' from childhood), so this never happened under very much pressure.
What would be a good ratio to add dry ice to a sealed container of limonene and h20 without risking the pressure bursting the plastic? Maybe SWIM is just being overly cautious...
This could be the reason; SWIM was always afraid of sealing his containers when they had dry ice bubbling furiously in them (remembering 'dry ice bombs' from childhood), so this never happened under very much pressure.
What would be a good ratio to add dry ice to a sealed container of limonene and h20 without risking the pressure bursting the plastic? Maybe SWIM is just being overly cautious...
damiana
Cosmic Dragon
What is the use of using dry ice, the seltzer water SWIM has is only carbonated water and nothing else. Isn't that fine, that won't make a bomb, haha. Just curious, maybe vinegar pulls aren't needed. SWIM did a few vinegar pulls already and will be doing a seltzer water pull later tonight.
damiana said:
Seltzer water contains significantly low concentration of CO2, and so this process requires a large volume of liquid for it to be worthwhile.
Plaincoil, has SWIY been adding any amount of water to the container when using dry ice?
damiana said:
SWIM generally a volume of vinegar less than that of limonene, but with seltzer, he uses more seltzer than limonene.
Why did Swim yield almost as much as with the vinegar pulls while using not really thatz much seltzer Water? I think that shaking is the most important part.
obliguhl said:
How did SWIY do it, and what did the product look like? SWIM would imagine that the concentration of acetic acid in vinegar is much higher than that of CO2 (let alone carbonic acid) in seltzer, so if both were used in the same amount with adequate shaking for both, salting two different samples from the exact same limonene pull, the vinegar should pull more.
That's very interesting to know...so there might be still some left? That would be awesome!
There's only one way to find out....
There's only one way to find out....
So far 500+mg of SWIM's pale yellow powdery carbonate wasn't nearly as potent as would be expected. SWIM has 400+mg of the same consistency left, so he may attempt an HCl conversion to determine the purity. Whatever he gets out of it, he'll take alongside his previously converted 100mg of HCl to gauge his sensitivity to the substance. SWIM's decided that the only way he'll be able to determine the success of any of the nontoxic extraction methods with different modes of evaporation is through conversion to HCl.
SWIM decided to convert his remaining 450mg of carbonate to HCl, got a little less than 200mg out of it, and took it alongside the first 100mg he converted from acetate. He's already noticing the effects to be stronger than that of the 500mg of carbonate mentioned above (again, probably due to oxidization due to heat in the evaporation process or perhaps within the cactus paste over time).
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
SWIM just found out about this tek and suggested using sodium bicarbonate and heat or acid, or sodium carbonate and acid, to generate CO2. This could then be bubbled through an amount of perhaps 1 or 2% acetic acid topped with a layer of limonene pull from cactus/lime paste...?