Hello everyone love the site and what you all do here. I want to start off by explaining what is going on. A group of people my friend knows are planning a group effort on a good sized extraction. It's 4 girls and they want to split the spice evenly between them. They all contributed something invaluable to the idea. One has a basement, the other a safe place to order mhrb and the other 2 extraction experience. This is not a commercial enterprise and nothing that comes from it will be for sale. At the start of their research 1% was said to be a good yield and planned to use the dmt handbook to extract. While waiting for the 2 kg of powdered mhrb that the tek called for and expecting to end up with around 5g ea for their efforts it has come to their attention that using newer teks it maybe possible to get 2%+ out of the mhrb. The plan was to switch from the handbook to the Max ion text from Cyb. Does anyone have any ideas on if this is possible to do with both kg at the same time? If not what teks other than the handbook would you all recommend? They are planning to get together this week to do this together. None of them want to make a habit of having a extraction lab set up all the time so they would really really like to do this once and be set for a year or 2 then start over with a new batch then. Thanks for any help and advice.
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Scaling up a bit
- Thread starter Rooster
- Start date
- Merits
- 42
Ummm, isn't this the same question you just asked from: this thread?
Also, if 2 of them have extraction experience, wouldn't they know what to do?
Also, pretty much anyone will tell you is to scale it down.
Also, if 2 of them have extraction experience, wouldn't they know what to do?
Also, pretty much anyone will tell you is to scale it down.
- Merits
- 199
Having so many people involved in something like this is sketchy business, I personally wouldn't want anything to do with that; too much that can go wrong. I would recommend splitting up the bark, giving people the address to our DMT FAQ, and letting them figure it out for themselves.
Regarding yields, it's always best to plan for 1% and be happy if you get more, vs. planning for 2% and being upset you only got 1.4% or some such.
Regarding teks, pick whichever one makes the most sense for your particular situation and the materials at hand, done correctly all teks should yield roughly the same; however much is in the bark to begin with. You will get better results running several smaller batches rather than one big batch.
This situation sounds way too risky and for the safety of everyone involved I'd suggest rethinking your strategy.
Be smart, be safe.
Regarding yields, it's always best to plan for 1% and be happy if you get more, vs. planning for 2% and being upset you only got 1.4% or some such.
Regarding teks, pick whichever one makes the most sense for your particular situation and the materials at hand, done correctly all teks should yield roughly the same; however much is in the bark to begin with. You will get better results running several smaller batches rather than one big batch.
This situation sounds way too risky and for the safety of everyone involved I'd suggest rethinking your strategy.
Be smart, be safe.
Yes this is the same question but the thread wasn't of the right topic so I started a new one to get more answers. The thread you referred to was only about the handbook until Cby pointed me to his teks. This got me thinking about using something other than the handbook. And scaling down isn't an option. Also the 4 people are loooooong time friends. This isn't their first rodeo together lol. And having so many people evolved would be sketchy if anyone planned to sell spice. Seeing how they are looking for a long time personal supply out of one risky extraction it is way less sketchy. The mhrb is here so doing it in lots of small batches and having powdered bark and extraction supplies hanging around would be sketchy:thumb_up:
Here's a new one lol. Do you guys think the freeze and thaw method would up the yield no matter what tek used? For example you wanted to go ahead with the handbook and did the hour hot water bath followed by 3 freeze and thaws then on to the handbook as written? Just a thought.
cubeananda
Interdependent Researcher
- Merits
- 42
Consider doing dry teks, they work great and if using food safe materials the fumes won't be as dangerous in a basement (limonene and saltings), after which you could base small amounts at a time as needed. (Sodium carbonate wash with a minimal amount of naphtha) this way the fumes in the basement will be as little as possible.
Shouldn't be too concerned about yield if small scale extractions are done. Also q2121 works great. You can always ask questions search around the forum and do a little critical thinking; you will eventually understand how easy it is to lose practically no solvent.
An yes freeze and thaw could help if you're not going to using lye especially. If you are going to do and acid then base tek adding a little vinegar to the water which you're going to freeze could be helpful.
Shouldn't be too concerned about yield if small scale extractions are done. Also q2121 works great. You can always ask questions search around the forum and do a little critical thinking; you will eventually understand how easy it is to lose practically no solvent.
An yes freeze and thaw could help if you're not going to using lye especially. If you are going to do and acid then base tek adding a little vinegar to the water which you're going to freeze could be helpful.
Thanks cube I will look into the dry tek just for learning purposes but the point of doing it all at once is to have nothing on property related to extracting as soon as possible. Way easier to hide a small amount of spice in a spice rack or kitchen cabinet without anyone ever noticing it than to have a big jar (or whatever the dry tek uses) of mixed up mhrb and related solvents in the house. As far as fumes in the basement go its a nonissue. They plan to run a carbon filter with a 8in vortex inline fan and 8in exhaust. Also have a 4in carbon filter and fan set up to use if needed mused to be a indoor farmer:wink:
- Merits
- 42
I understand that you want to get it done quickly but you should really know how to extract first. Do a 50g batch to get a feel for the process.
If you know the process, you won't need to ask about scaling ingredient amounts etc.
Here is an easy starter to help.
Please don't rush into things...this is how mistakes happen.
This was written 4 years ago by the admin of the site.
If you know the process, you won't need to ask about scaling ingredient amounts etc.
Here is an easy starter to help.
Please don't rush into things...this is how mistakes happen.
This was written 4 years ago by the admin of the site.
Cyb I thank you again for your concern. This is not their first extraction. Done a handful of smaller one like you keep pushing and as much as 250g at a time. I know at least 3 ways to do this without a tek. Am simply entertaining and educating myself in the mean time until extraction day. My first convo with you was mainly wondering why the handbook was claiming such low yields. It wasn't until you led me to your teks claiming 2-3% that I even considered doing something other than the handbook. I am not new to this just looking to learn newer ways. I liked the idea of both of your teks but was just unsure of the salting steps. Am well aware how to scale up the acid and vinegar steps. And again I am not talking about doing anything any bigger than is right there on the wiki. And further more 2 kg hardly screams commercial or distribution. Swim can easily go through a gram or 2 in a weekend camping with 2 or 3 friends. Thanks again
- Merits
- 42
You say you're experienced in extractions but it sounds as though the chemistry part is eluding you.
Teks are just a guide to a basic chemical procedure...not necessarily a hard and fast recipe.
People mistakenly think that you just double up on the ingredients.
You need as much water as is necessary to make the mix watery, not sludgy.
pH 2-4 acidic phase
pH 12 or above basic phase
Same salt as lye.
Pull with minimal solvent. Freeze. Dry.
Really this is all you need to know. Good luck :thumb_up:
Teks are just a guide to a basic chemical procedure...not necessarily a hard and fast recipe.
People mistakenly think that you just double up on the ingredients.
You need as much water as is necessary to make the mix watery, not sludgy.
pH 2-4 acidic phase
pH 12 or above basic phase
Same salt as lye.
Pull with minimal solvent. Freeze. Dry.
Really this is all you need to know. Good luck :thumb_up:
I am very grateful for your input. I do understand the chemical process of what they have done in the past. They are not chemist but are pretty good extractors. Know a/b and stb and how and why they work. Do admit to know nothing about using salt in the process. Didn't know anyone even used salt until you linked me to your tek. How does that compute to not knowing what's going on during a common extraction. Your teks are new and very cool. All I said I needed was a how to figure the salt amounts. I don't know what the salt is doing and know one says I have to to be able to extract with it. Why take the time to write teks and post them if nobody is supposed to need them. I didn't ask how to perform a basic extraction I asked how to convert the one you linked me too to the size The girls planned to use simply because you claimed the process planned was out if date. I understand you have a opinion that says only extract 50-100g at a time but YOU linked me to your tek. I just figured why get 1% if you say they can get 2-3. Again it's not any bigger of a batch than is advertised right here on the wiki. I didn't come join this site to debate what I feel is a safe size extraction. Just want to most for their time and money. Thank again
P.S. I use a blue lab ph meter and don't just follow teks to the letter hence wanting to try yours modified.
P.S. I use a blue lab ph meter and don't just follow teks to the letter hence wanting to try yours modified.
I can't believe The girls are getting shit for 2kg. After a little more research into how salt came to be used it didn't take long to run across the begins of it in the form of a extraction log by Cybs partner ChemisTryptaMan using over 4kg in a stb and yielding over 40g. It's all right here on the nexus. I just wanted to know how much salt solution to use if I was to take Cybs advise and run his tek. Also what other peoples opinions where on the best way to run the 2kg. Somehow that turned into me not knowing how to extract. Oh well I am sure they will get it worked out and be happy with whatever spice comes from it. Ithanks gain everyone for contributing.
- Merits
- 42
If you had said that in the first place, it would have saved all this confusion.Rooster said:
I've already explained above...'Same salt as lye'
and noone is giving you grief (merely pointing out why we encourage small scale extractions) ...you're just not explaining yourself very well.
I apologize if I was unclear. Thought I was very clear that they knew how to extract just needed to scale up a bit. Again I am grateful and will be just adding salt to their regular steps. After reading the salt thread where you all first figured this stuff out it is clear what needs to be done. If someone reads your PDFs it makes it sound like you need to add 1000ml of salt water to each 100g mhrb. That's where I got confused. I also am not sure why all the extra steps when it seems a simple stb with sAlt added before the base will give 2-3% clean white spice. Seems like a lot of work for nothing. Sorry if I got defensive but you did response like I had no clue. As I said on the other thread to the first responder text doesn't show attitude or emotion and is a horrible way to have to communicate but has to be done in this field lol. Thanks again.
Hey hey Cyb (or anyone that knows) if yer still checking in on this one can you just reassure the girls that they have the right idea? If doing the handbook they need to just add the salt to the acid cook correct? Gonna go hit the threads to try and find what. I need on my own but a fast answer would be sweet. So add bark powder to pot then vinegar, water to ph 2-4 and salt. Then boil and strain out the tea to basify?. Thanks again
Am talking about the dmt handbook. It requires a boil and then to strain the tea off the bark then base just the liquid. I did read every word of your teks and the handbook. Was going to experiment with salting using the handbook. I have big stainless stock pots and also have a bunch of 2.5 gallon hdpe jugs as well.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
- Merits
- 42
Salt helps push freebase into the nonpolar phase by increasing the polarity of the aqueous phase. As explained in the tek.
