Second thoughts on harmalas

[windyshaman]

So syrian rue was part of my practice for the past few months... and I was definitely enjoying it, until my last month's session - when I decided to do a pre-load/priming intake before taking in the "usual" syrian rue's brew followed by the actual session.

Here's what happened:
- that pre-load/priming intake went sooooo smoothly and it felt soooooo organic, one of the first thoughts I had at this point - was: "screw that syrian rue stuff - not happening!"
- and it didn't... I had my main session without any harmalas and it was really good.

Just had another session a few days ago and harmalas weren't even on the menu, not interested. Freaking amazing session - it was. Yes - it's very fast paced. Yes - it's very hectic... but it feels very natural and organic.

Moral of the story and thinking back, when practicing DMT with harmalas (at least with the syrian rue brew) there's always a sense of uneasiness, like something is being forced. Regardless - I'm planning my next session (in a few weeks) with harmalas - to have a better comparative perspective, but I'm really starting to get cold foot-ed towards the whole harmalas idea.

Anyone came across similar observations?

 

[universecannon]

I'm not sure about a sense of uneasiness or feeling forced, but I have taken a step back from harmalas over the last few years. I still am interested in using them for medicinal/inflammation reason, or in low oral doses combined with a bit of DMT and other techniques (which seems to work well), but I think I'm all set on anything more than that for now.

I worked with them heavily for years in all kinds of ways, and it was amazing and quite useful at at the time. But with what I'm doing now they just seem to add a massive amount of decoherence and loss of focus. The last time I smoked a decent amount of harmalas on LSD the whole experience went sideways for hours in a very peculiar way, but low oral doses have combined ok. It feels like the quintessential underworld plant, for lack of a better word. For me it doesn't often bring about very luminous experiences without high doses laying still in the dark, but those are brief glimpses, and very often it puts me in what feels like a collective unconscious hypnagogic dream soup of random people, places etc, with a huge difficulty focusing.

The times I've taken over 50mg with a bit of mushrooms and eye gazed, I could barely keep my eyes focused enough to pull it off - though the euphoria was tremendous.

So for now I mostly stick to <50mg whenever I will be using DMT on its own or a low dose of mushrooms, because it does still add some amazing dimensionality to it and length.

That said I would love to try some fresh seeds in the wild someday. It sounds like a better experience from what some here have said.

 

[northape]

To each their own. I think rue adds complexity and direction, but you'd better have good fresh material on hand. I don't know what more to say. It's up to you and your relationship with the plants. Working with rue is not easy and never will be. If you feel that the hardships outweigh the benefits, you know how to proceed. I'd still give rue a chance, even if it's only for occasional ingestion. Perhaps don't see it as a dmt potentiator, but rather approach rue as the main event. What is your aim with this work? You don't need to state it, but asking yourself may provide some extra clarity...

 

[hardyw]

Does it have to be one or the other? Isn’t there a place for both?

 

[northape]

Does it have to be one or the other? Isn’t there a place for both?

Sure, yet any mastery requires dedication

 

[doubledog]

maybe caapi as a harmalas source could be a good alternative.

 

[dithyramb]

Being the rue guy, I'm supposed to jump in here and say noooo, rue is amazing

Rue definitely has its weird and harsh sides to it. High doses often give that random people, places, events "dream visions." But they are not the point. Work on, look for actual inner shifts.

For me proper strain, freshness, and mixing with Russian olive bark (an extremely tiny amount) have been key for reliably producing very clean, meaningful, rewarding effects. In that sense, there is no guarantee for people to come upon a "desirable" form of the rue spirit. I was just very lucky to encounter a very sweet strain as the first wild picked one, and many years later I had an idea of what to look for when searching for even better strains.

It's the main event for me, as caapi is traditionally.

But for sure we can have changing needs at different periods of our lives. I had a time when I felt San Pedro is better for me than rue.

 

[universecannon]

Yeah I wonder if fresh seeds would be more useful for me these days. I always felt caapi was more clear than dried rue seeds for me

 

[dithyramb]

If you have the feeling the seeds you have are not very clear, or are weird or harsh, sprouting and eating is always an option. It makes a much clearer and connective experience. Tea turns out too weak, and I suspect the biggest reason is the root alkaloids blocking the seed alkaloids action. But when you eat it, it can feel miraculous. You still have to decently preserve seed alkaloids in the process - no soaking in water, just spraying. Kept in 25 - 35 C, it should take at most 5 days. Of course the seeds should have some vigor in them - they need to be reasonably not old and stored properly.

 

[universecannon]

I have the opposite problem of seed tea being weak. There could be a lot of reasons why, but 2g of tea floors me for many hours.

My seeds are extremely old now, but I've only used extracted harmalas the last few years

 

[universecannon]

I like the idea of sprouting if it works for these seeds