seeking info on syrian rue and acacia confusa

[jah Meej]

Hello to everyone.
I'm new to this site in particular, but participate in many others on a variety of topics(drug safety, etc.) so I try to give my best answer I can prove, and if I can't I will not bs you or make something up I'll tell you where I looked or where I would look.
So since this is my first post I thought a short intro paragraph was called for. I have come here to learn about dmt and things related, it is in the class "psychedelics" but particularly with dmt is seems to be almost a class in its own. Bear in mind I have not done dmt but my cat has done lsd, shrooms, dxm, as well as some other street drugs so he has a fair amount of experience with drugs in general. My cat is the person everyone calls when they want to know about this drug or that drug or what something is or how much to take, etc. Not like prescribing or playing doctor, but offering safe advice based on experience and researched knowledge.

So while searching for knowledge on dmt, I have landed here Here is my post

So my cat has procured a good amount of Syrian rue and also a relatively appropriate amount of what was sold as "fresh ROOT bark acacia confusa" (my cat realizes there is a huge difference in the bark or ROOT bark, with the latter being more potent). My cat is really into the healing and mind expanding properties available in ayahuasca and related entheogens containing dmt and similar compounds.
He has the means to powder up the bark (it came in small chunks), hopefully the coffee grinder will hold up, it was bought new specifically for this purpose. My cat has some experience with other entheogens as far as cultivation/preparation and dosing, etc but none with dmt at all.

So mainly my cat wants to know what a simple, as traditional as possible, type "brew" with his rue and a. confusa. I have heard 3g rue is pretty standard good place to start, but I made sure my cat found some people who are knowledgeable with dmt, brews and specifically rue + a. confusa brews if possible. This is not something taken lightly, and any suggestions to a newbie cat are welcome

 

[leon]

I would brew a tea with the rue and drink that. Then wait an hour or 2 and drink the acacia bark tea. Heat it to just below boiling. I may be wrong but I think the leafs of the acacia is what your suposed to use. the bark will taste awful.

 

[jah Meej]

Thanks for the advice leon. The only source I could find that listed different amounts of various types of dmt in different parts of the plant and it was Wikipedia. They measure

Root bark
N-methyltryptamine, 1.43%
N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 1.15%

so I'm pretty sure it is the bark, though I do not know what the leaves have or the difference in taste, so my cat is dealing with the root bark cause that's what he's already got. So I've heard the finer the grind, the better the results with a given amount for the A. Confusa and I imagine it wouldn't hurt with the rue.

Sounds like 3g rue is the dose for that, I've heard that a few places...
Anyone out there actually have personal experience with this? I have heard some things also and I am curious to hear from some people that have done some, how much, their weight and tolerance etc.

I will take a moment to mention my cat has been tapering off sertraline(Zoloft) from 200 mg and is down to 50 (over the course of about a month) and will then wait approx. 2-3 weeks to try this as maoi's and any antidepressant is HIGHLY contraindicated.

SO that being said my cat would be more inclined to up the root bark and back off on the rue, if possible, just as a precautionary measure and also, he wants to compare it to when he does 3g rue.

As for some basic info for pharmacology and qualitative experiences with other psychedelics:
My cat is huge he weighs about 165 pounds 5'11 and in general a fast metabolism and naturally high tolerance to intoxicants. My cat can be sensitive to some psychadelics. As for mushrooms, usual dose, never passed 2g and always had a DEFINITE Trip and didn't really WANT more. LSD however my noticed the effects seemed much more level and controllable and "safe" so he could do more and have more profound experiences. So I have no idea where dmt where fall in this spectrum. Never done mescaline, mdma was about average tolerance.

Also he did lsd for the first time at 12 in the middle of the night (sounds like the beginning of a bad trip already) not knowing you couldn't sleep on it and it was STRONG stuff, but surprisingly handled it well, although staying up all night, and even dosed again at middle school at lunch (luckily tolerance GREATLY increases with sequential doses) because he was able to "hold it together" enough to get through the day. But I digress.

What do you think a good amount of Root bark (which is what I have) to mix with say 2g or 1.5g rue, then also how much root bark for the full 3g rue. Is there a standard like jungle spice? "ie. don't go over this amount for the first time no matter what because it effects everyone differently"

I'm excited to learn about these new plants and the journey that is surely to ensue... Anxiously awaiting responses Be blessed.

 

[leon]

15-20 grams of rootbark drank 2-3 hr after ingesting 3 grams of ground syrian rue.

 

[spinCycle]

When I first arrived here it was advised to work with Rue or Aya only for a while to determine the proper dosage and get accustomed to the effects. It was very good advice, and there are worthwhile experiences to be had without using the admixtures.

Start w/ low doses of Rue and work up to discover your tolerance. Then try the combo brew after you are used to and know how much to use for MAO inhibition.

 

[jah Meej]

Thanks again for the input leon and also spinCycle. That sounds like good advice, better safe than sorry. You can always take more but it's pretty hard to untake it.

To be honest 15-20 g sounds a little insane to me, at least from what I've read, you can use ONLY the A. Confusa and trip, but you have to take A LOT(they recommended 25-100grams of root bark), I cannot stress enough the difference between regular bark, root bark as well as other parts of the plant. It definitely sounds like jungle spice is the sort of "baseline" or "standard".... My cat may just get some MHRB, he always wondered though some vendors sell what they call "inner root bark" which knowing online vendors, may very well mean little to nothing. That's about where I'm at with that type of reagent.

As for the Rue, I will probably start with something ridiculously low like 1/4 of a gram, then slightly less than double it until I notice the effects I'm looking for I guess... Not really sure what I'm looking for, but I imagine I'll know when I find it. Looks like I have some due diligence as far as researching as much as I can about rue as well.

So looks like my cat will have to wait for the Zoloft to get out of his system then start with rue until he's comfortable then I suppose do the same thing with the confuse no?

Thanks for the interest and responses guys, much appreciated. :thumb_up:

 

[DieM]

Hi everyone! DieM has recently found what seems similar to 100g MHRB, 50g Syrian Rue (seed right?), and 50g B.Caapi Leaves. What options are open to him? Options seem to be to extract to freebase/salt & vape alone, create Changa w MHRB & B.Caapi (Long process)? Or brew Ayahuasca w/MHRB & Syrian Rue (9hours?)?

From what he's read so far, he would need for Changa- to soak 1g (that's a lot right?) of freebase spice/solvent solution onto 20g? of B.Caapi leaf, and leave till solvent has fully evap'd. For traditional Ayahuasca- boil/heat up 3g Syrian Rue and 8g? MHRB, drink.

He informs me that he has decided to go with both (unless anybody can jump in with a better idea?) and placed MHRB & Rue in the freezer to help lyse some before the processing after sleep.

In the meantime, again if any fellow Nexian wants to jump in and (please do) tell me I'm making a huge mistake, or provide info for direction to informative threads here on the Nexus, it will be met with much welcome and gratitude, as DieM is a noob and doesn't get much time to 'happen' across such informative threads..

On behalf of DieM- Many thanks and much love!

 

[jah Meej]

Diem, This thread was originally posted regarding A. Confusa and Syrian Rue so I'd like to urge others answering this post not to get too far off topic... Not trying to diminish your question at ALL or seem like I'm reprimanding because that is not my intention at all.

If you feel like you need more Info I'd encourage you to start a thread SPECIFICALLY what you have, your options, etc etc. (BTW I looked into extracting dmt freebase, and I would consider it very high on the difficulty and experience scale, it's a very involved A/B extraction, and if you want a clean product you'll need to defat it at least once. I've never even DONE an extraction, I just know this from reading about it. So someone that's done it would know more specifics. Its like an 8-10 step process at least tho.) Back to topic:

Anyway yes rue SEEDs are what you want, and changa is preferred for smoking to make the smoke less harsh... However I've heard its pretty much a rocket ship, you blast off and within a min it's so intense you can't really move and kinda lose touch with reality. While brews and oral dmt seems to draw this 5 min experience out over 3 -6 hours, which is why I'm looking into brews.

One other important part, ayahuasca (or the premise at least) is simply to make dmt ORALLY active using an maoi (some people even use prescription maoi, but those are not reversible maois and rue has reversible ones).

So you have MHRB which has dmt so you're basically making Jurema or jungle spice if you use the b.Caapi leaves. however it takes WAY less Syrian rue than it does b.caapi leaves (I believe Syrian rue is like 3-5 grams b.caapi is almost 10x times that and the Syrian rue has psychoactive properties on its own). Thus I went for Rue and A. Confusa, which has two to three times as much dmt by weight compared to MHRB.. However I heard MHRB is better for the inexperienced, but I consider myself fairly advanced as far as chemistry, pharmacology and psychedelic experience.

If you do use rue, I would do what I was told and find your dose of that first, then try adding in recommended amounts of mhrb ( I seem to remember NEVER to pass 3-5g on ur first go, some people are very sensitive and you could end up with a bad experience on your hands). I had trouble finding the same type of guidelines for a. confusa which is why I made this post to begin with.

So we really need some veteran members to come in and clear some of this up for me and Diem! Sounds like we have some basics between us but experience is the best teacher.

 

[DieM]

Thanks very much for your reply, I found it helpful, even to a basic level (because that's where I'm at).

Apologies for being slightly off topic. I'm completely new to ANY kind of forum and I'm having teething problems navigating and finding what I need, and being as specific as such a huge forum demands. I will be committing as much time as I can reasonably balance, here. Given the right circumstance with the wide spectrum of information, I may be able to contribute more than I bug people for answers. -Sorry

Thanks for the info supplied.
Re: Syrian Rue. Looks like I'l be using this as my pilot MAOI.
Re: A.Confusa, I'm kicking myself now. I didn't know it held 2-3x more %/g!
Although, it's comforting you mentioned MHRB is more suitable for the inexperienced, as the extraction process is a steep learning curve as it is. -Mainly the trial and error phase with the equipment available. I've made some pretty basic mistakes already.

All good experience though!

Next time I'll order some A.Confusa and be able to contribute more specifically in this thread.

Many thanks Jah Meej :thumb_up:

 

[jah Meej]

No apology necessary my friend! I think we both understood each other's intentions, I'm new HERE as well, but have been on ALOT of forums, and from perusing the other threads this forum has the least amount of flaming, arguing, etc so it's a GREAT place to learn.

So yes you are correct about the rue exactly. Now you CAN use your B.Caapi to make traditional ayahuasca, rue is just more potent, like the A. Confusa.
And don't worry about MHRB, I was almost regretting getting the rainbow tree cuz MHRB +MAOI aka jungle spice or Jurema is so much more common.

As for extractions, I read ALOT about it a few years ago, there's a local grass here in Nebraska and many other states called A. phalaris (sp?) and it contains very small amount of dmt, but there's so damn much of it around, it'd be no problem to get kilos and kilos of it. But I found through my research, the more plant material you deal with, the more challenges you will have. Like during your A/B making sure you use enough HCL or NaHO (hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide) getting your PH's correct also you have to defat it a lot more (still not sure exactly what "defatting" is, I just know where it goes in the process and what it does, kinda lol)

So my guess will be you should test either rue or caapi (can't hurt to familiarize yourself with any maoi you're using, but rue has many reversible MAOI's so food generally isn't a problem. Not sure about b. caapi but I'd guess it's the same. With the pharmahuasca (rx maoi and dmt) you have to observe EVERY caution for food and drug interactions to MAOI's since it's non reversible MAOI. I heard you can kick back in an oral dmt trip by eating a food with tyramine in it after the come down. I still have to get off my SSRI (Zoloft) so I'm jealous you can do it now! lol.
As long as you treat the plants with respect they will respect you back (which it's obvious you are). Happy and Safe journeys :thumb_up:

p.s. still waitng for a more veteran member to help me out with rue and confusa! I know mhrb first dose, don't pass 3-5g w maoi. But I have no clue with confusa. thanks

 

[jah Meej]

Tried 1 gram Syrian rue with my decreased dose of Zoloft (50 mg every other day, and today was an off day), also tried 2 grams with nothing but drowsiness, not even nausea.

So I just ate 2.3g rue seeds and 4g a. confuse to see if I'm anywhere near my threshold.
Will report back.

 

[DieM]

Thanks again for more info, I was unaware you could relight the fuse with Tyramine containers!

Last night, I took the 3g S.Rue and 10g MHRB. Very mild effects.. will be upping the dosage. I put a report here. Nothing majorly exciting, but I'm thankful I took too little over too much! Definitely wise starting low and stepping it up.

Be careful if using the Phalaris, I heard somewhere that sheep that have had a MOAI, their normal diet -Phalaris, becomes fatally toxic.. We are not sheep (most of us), but I think extra caution should be taken.

All the best to you my friend, fingers crossed for happy travels! :thumb_up:

 

[Jees]

...To be honest 15-20 g sounds a little insane to me,...

According to literature, jah is right.

 

[joshisom]

do NOT start off with 15-20 grams acacia confusa ive had some confusa that had 2% DMT and barely any NMT that means 5 grams would have 100mg wich is plenty start low and work your way up if u have potent root bark 15-20 grams caould be 300-400mg DMT WAY TO MUCH FOR FIRST TIME DMT TYRIP somepeople only need 30mg please start low be safe. start out with 5 grams and maybe 1 gram rue once system is clean

 

[jah Meej]

Thanks Joshisom and Jees, definitely good to get some reference points as far as numbers. As well as some other little facts you mentioned...
But I wonder Jees what maoi did you use Syrian rue? if so how much when you took 10g A. confusa? I think I may have taken enough to break through last night but being uninformed on a few things, it didn't work (glad I tested out small amounts)

As I mention in my previous post, last night I took 2.3g Syrian rue and 4 gram a. confuse with no effects, BUT I'm ppreeettty sure I messed up by just "toss and washing" the root.
(just dump powdered/ground up material and wash down w water/juice. I have a coffee grinder n it makes powder so fine it looks like smoke, yet also leaves some fibrous bits so I just grind th e heck out of it)

And it seems to me some serious boiling was needed, and 3 or more "washes" (repeating boiling but with same material) is something I ran across reading. I've also read wether or not to distill it down to higher concentrations or not, and it seems like it depends how much nasty crap do you wanna drink?

I'm feeling much more confident now that I'm getting more familiar, do you guys think that's why I didn't trip?
And with Syrian rue, how much precaution needs to be taken with tyramine rich foods? (I won't get into conflicting pharmaceuticals, those sound like a bad idea all around).

I also have ibs, but I can take more than half an ounce of Kratom in a day without much problem (although it's a painkiller in its own right). I realized Kratom is not discussed here, I only mentioned to see If anyone knows of tricks for someone who does not know how it will affect their stomach or tricks from people that do have problems from this brew.


I feel like I'm getting close, I'm excited... Oh and I know this post has kinda a lot of questions but I got one more, can Syrian rue make you really tired by itself? I have a high tolerance usually for sedatives, and maybe it was other drugs in my system, which is why I ask so I can better pinpoint this especially if I'll be taking more rue than what made me tired (2g)

 

[Jees]

I suspect it needs less effort than boiling caapi, as the wood is also somewhat softer when both are dry.

 

[jah Meej]

Thanks Jees! You say phosphoric acid, do I just need to get the ph to ~4.5? If so I have some pool cleaner that takes 1oz to make 100 gal .1 ph.
Or I can use vinegar lol.

I just wouldn't know the math, or ratio I'd need of vinegar to water to achieve that PH and don't have ph strips, maybe ill have to get some :/

Or maybe I'll just toss an ounce or two of vinegar n just have at it. I have enough material... I think tonight may b my second attempt at an experience, but with lowered ph, boiled confusa RB. Thanks so much for everyone's input. I'm super excited!

Still no tips for nausea? That's like the ONE thing I'm must nervous about... I'm fine with puking, I do almost everytime I do shrooms, but if it's possibly avoidable I'd like to try it. I will be taking a tincure that has lavender, chamomile, pepper mint, fennel, slippery elm and holy basil I believe, Maybe I'll had a few drops to it right before I down it.

And I don't need to make a soup out of the rue right? I heard it just makes it taste terrible and your stomach can process the whole seeds fairly easily?

 

[jah Meej]

Experiment #2

Boiling 3 cap fulls (water bottle cap size) vinegar
300ml water
6ish grams acacia confusa

My plan since I have plenty, is to bowl this for at least an hour or as long as I can, and use about 2.5g rue seeds. My plan was to consume this 1/3 at a time, but How far should I space it out? I'm getting nervous I think lol cuz now I have all these questions

~19:30 Begin Boil

~19:50 Took 2.5g Syrian rue
Will update as I can... Plan to boil 1 hour

WOw jees you did 10g ARB? I have 6.5 brewing total and am thinking thirds and trying to figure out how close together to drink them??? Ideas anyone? (the time draws near)

20:08 The mixture has barely enough water to not burn up, so I added a good 200ml

20:12 The mixture is losing steam extremely quickly, the water looks solidly colored and I feel any reaction that will take place has (or enough of it)
Now letting it cool, then I was thinking about drinking half, so 3.25g... or is that like taking .5 g of shrooms ? lol I don't know... There's also about as much liquid as there is solid... Just down the crap too? or strain it? help?! lol

 

[joshisom]

you should boil your bark 3 seperate times each time transfering it to a different pot to reduce volume that way it is easier to drink but i feel it tales 4 hour long boils to get alks out at least when im doing it with alot of bark but i dont see why the amount of bark would effect it. at least 3 boils

 

[jah Meej]

Well it matters cuz if I use 20 grams but Only boil once for an hour I may have same amount as 8 grams of your method. I'm just making up numbers but you see my point. Guess I'm Just gonna have to try this out.

20:16 I strained the 6.5 g of bark and got like 50ml of liquid, that's it lol, I'm raelly tempted to down it all. I'm just waiting a few more min to make sure I gave the rue enough time.

screw it 20:18, gulped down all the liquid, I know what they mean by tannins making your mouth pucker, gross, glad I had such a small amount, but now I'm hoping it was enough!7

20:38 Notice I keep closing my eyes, I'm not sure if I'd fall asleep or not so I got back on computer and "toss n washed" half the material in there... Some water dripped when I coughed and I think I'm starting to kinda feel like shrooms... maybe that extra I just took will be quite a ride (or make me puke, or both). Will report back, sometime