Separatory Funnel

[alleyezonme]

Well, I wasn't really sure where to place this, sorry if this doesn't belong here.

Is it bad to buy a Separatory Funnel online? I can't seem to get the gravy seperator down in "69ron's D-Limonene Mescaline Extraction - DMT-Nexus Wiki".

I would like to just purchase the funnel to make it easier, but I wasn't sure if it would be wise to order if online.

 

[q21q21]

Using a Ziploc bag to shake and a turkey baster to suck the vinegar from the bottom works great for SWIM.

Can't say too much about separatory funnels, only used one in Chem 12 once.

 

[endlessness]

ziplock+limonene ? what kind of plastic is ziplock and are you sure limo doesnt eat it (and I just dont mean obvious visible changes in short term use, because thats not good enough standard IMO) ? I would personally NEVER use ziplock for this

to the OP: are you in a big city or near one? big cities many times have lab/chem supply stores that you can buy the separatory funnel off the counter

 

[Infundibulum]

Aw not the ziplock!

SWIM has seen ziplocks getting dissolved by solvents!

 

[ghostman]

If you can get a sep funnel, do so. I would not want to do anything without one. I do A/B extractions, so a sep funnel comes in very handy. Also, if I need to do a sodium carbonate wash or do mini A/Bs, the I would not want to be without my sep funnel.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

According to Q21Q21's tek, he uses Ziploc Brand name bags. He specifically says to use the Ziploc ones and not the cheaper ones as the cheap ones do melt. I don't have personal experience, but Q21 seems well versed and he's not warned against using the proper kind.

 

[Entropymancer]

... q21Q21 also told someone to heat their naphtha on a gas stove, which they did and got a fireball in their face burning their hair for the trouble.

Q21Q21 is painfully careless when it comes to health and safety, so I wouldn't take the fact that he's recommended them as any indication of their safety.

The MSDS for d-limonene says explicitly "Do not store in plastic." To me, that means: "Don't use a ziplock bag for this stuff."

 

[amor_fati]

Maybe SWIM should write a tutorial on how to use the gravy separator? You'll need at least one disposable pipette. Sometimes there will be two layers of fluid in the spout, so remove the top one and put it back in the separator. When pouring, try to keep the bottom corner over the dish in case anything runs down the side. When you've gotten to the point where the top layer tries to run down the spout, stop pouring, tilt it back, and pipette the rest of the bottom layer out of the corner. It sounds like a lot to do and consider, but one gets the hang of it quite quickly.

Another alternative is to freeze the bottom layer (does 5% vinegar freeze?), pour off the limonene, and thaw. SWIM's done this with FASW and managed to freeze precip most of the excess fumaric acid in the process.

Separatory funnels are very fragile and a bit pricey, but the two methods SWIM provides work just fine.


SWIM's not sure about the safety of ziplock bags, but he wouldn't recommend it. SWIM stores limonene in HDPE (what it came in from the vendor), but ziplocks are LDPE and PP. In any case, the ziplock method is not a favored method.

 

[benzyme]

Is it bad to buy a Separatory Funnel online?

no worse than buying a toaster online

 

[Infundibulum]

According to Q21Q21's tek, he uses Ziploc Brand name bags. He specifically says to use the Ziploc ones and not the cheaper ones as the cheap ones do melt. I don't have personal experience, but Q21 seems well versed and he's not warned against using the proper kind.

Q21Q21 is not well versed and yes, he's been giving dangerous advice in the past.

AS we are onto it, here's the facts:
1. Ziploc Brand makes their babs from polyethylene.
2. Polyethylene is not recommended with limonene.

End of argument.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I purchased a separatory funnel online and never had LEO come knocking at my door. In some areas sep funnels may be considered laboratory glass and be in violation of some law without a permit or license or something, but I don't know, you'd have to check your local laws. For me, I did it with no problem, there are numerous lab glass supply stored on the internet and I know even ebay has people selling lab glass. Sep funnels are fairly innocuous, imo, and definitely a safer option than a ziplock bag :roll: . You should be fine, just do some basic research about laws in your area.

... q21Q21 also told someone to heat their naphtha on a gas stove, which they did and got a fireball in their face burning their hair for the trouble.

Q21Q21 is painfully careless when it comes to health and safety, so I wouldn't take the fact that he's recommended them as any indication of their safety.

The MSDS for d-limonene says explicitly "Do not store in plastic." To me, that means: "Don't use a ziplock bag for this stuff."

Seconded. I appreciate his work with acetates (but find the attachment of his name to previously existing methods to be in poor taste) but, q21q21 oft times gives advice/information that I find to be fairly questionable coming from a "chemical expert" (the status denoted by his badge). I would definitely avoid ziplocks.

 

[q21q21]

Sorry for trying to save people from getting expensive and often watched chemistry equipments.

Two reasons why the bag is recommended by SWIM

1: SWIM has done this nearly a hundred times and even left the solvent in a bag for over a week without effect on the bag, the yield or the solvent.

2:In one instance when alkaloids come in contact with limonene containing dissolved plastic (a cheap plastic fork) they form a seemingly unbreakable salt that SWIM could not do anything with by throw out.

Here is SWIM's test in which he discovered that

Plastic + D-limonene + DMT = Unbreakable compound? - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Since there is no evaporation of the limonene in the tek, only salting out with vinegar, there would likely be, and (seems) to have been no effect in SWIM many many many test. One would think that he would be getting crazy yields from the contamination, but many times there has been no yield at all.


Once again, sorry for trying to help.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

... q21Q21 also told someone to heat their naphtha on a gas stove, which they did and got a fireball in their face burning their hair for the trouble.

Q21Q21 is painfully careless when it comes to health and safety, so I wouldn't take the fact that he's recommended them as any indication of their safety.

The MSDS for d-limonene says explicitly "Do not store in plastic." To me, that means: "Don't use a ziplock bag for this stuff."

With all due respect, he did not explicitly tell someone to do that. I know what you are talking about, and I can see how that was misread. He thought the guy was asking about double broiling the basified liquid, not the naptha.


I mean, honestly. If someone doesn't already know why putting a solvent in a pan on top of an open flame is a bad idea, they probably shouldn't be fuckin' around with hallucinogenics either.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

... q21Q21 also told someone to heat their naphtha on a gas stove, which they did and got a fireball in their face burning their hair for the trouble.

Q21Q21 is painfully careless when it comes to health and safety, so I wouldn't take the fact that he's recommended them as any indication of their safety.

The MSDS for d-limonene says explicitly "Do not store in plastic." To me, that means: "Don't use a ziplock bag for this stuff."

With all due respect, he did not explicitly tell someone to do that. I know what you are talking about, and I can see how that was misread. He thought the guy was asking about double broiling the basified liquid, not the naptha.

With all due respect, he did. q21q21 explicitly stated it was ok for maxzar to proceed as he had outlined in his post. All the relevant information to tell him not to do this was also in that post. The information that max was double boiling naptha on a gas stove was there to be read by all. Even if it hadn't said gas stove, it would have still been an inappropriate response, especially from a member of the community with the erlenmeyer flask badge.

Here's the post that was given the go-ahead, Blundering_Novice, so you can see that I'm not making this up. You probably shouldn't jump in the middle of something trying to defend indefensible positions....

Also, my friend, Would it be safe to use a double boiler on the gas stove for the naptha process? I am worried that I would not be able to keep the naptha hot enough.

I am using some pyrex bowls, and they can sit on top of each other, acting as a crude double boiler, but how often should I change the water for maxmum yield? Should I wait till the top bowl heats up before adding the naptha?

What methods do you use to heat up the naptha before using it?

Much thanks,
mzar

Now as to this...

I mean, honestly. If someone doesn't already know why putting a solvent in a pan on top of an open flame is a bad idea, they probably shouldn't be fuckin' around with hallucinogenics either.

This is why we have chemical experts. That way those of us who don't know the answers to such questions (even if they may seem simple or obvious to others of us) can ask people with the relevant skills and knowledge how to safely proceed. Wehn someone has one of these badges, they are viewed as an authority. This is part of the reason such advice is a million times worse when coming from a "chemical expert". As a chemical expert, when you are giving advice, it is 100% your responsibility to make sure you have fully read the problem and addressed it in a safe and appropriate manner. For you to make ignorant claims like this and try to blame an individual who literally asked the question of a designated chemical expert so as to carry this process out correctly and safely is beyond ludicrous.

 

[InnerDarkness]

So no one knows where to buy a high quality sep funnel for cheap off the internet?

ebay would work I suppose...

These things seem expensive

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Yes, Ebay does have them. As with all lab glass, they are going to be relatively expensive whether from ebay or other online retailers. The best deals for a complete 500ml sep funnel and stand when I was looking were around $50-$60. There may be cheaper funnels, but they're probably not full funnel/stand sets. Remember, if you are buying a sep funnel, you're probably gonna need a stand too, it's a real PITA to use em without one.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

... q21Q21 also told someone to heat their naphtha on a gas stove, which they did and got a fireball in their face burning their hair for the trouble.

Q21Q21 is painfully careless when it comes to health and safety, so I wouldn't take the fact that he's recommended them as any indication of their safety.

The MSDS for d-limonene says explicitly "Do not store in plastic." To me, that means: "Don't use a ziplock bag for this stuff."

With all due respect, he did not explicitly tell someone to do that. I know what you are talking about, and I can see how that was misread. He thought the guy was asking about double broiling the basified liquid, not the naptha.

With all due respect, he did. q21q21 explicitly stated it was ok for maxzar to proceed as he had outlined in his post. All the relevant information to tell him not to do this was also in that post. The information that max was double boiling naptha on a gas stove was there to be read by all. Even if it hadn't said gas stove, it would have still been an inappropriate response, especially from a member of the community with the erlenmeyer flask badge.

Here's the post that was given the go-ahead, Blundering_Novice, so you can see that I'm not making this up. You probably shouldn't jump in the middle of something trying to defend indefensible positions....

Also, my friend, Would it be safe to use a double boiler on the gas stove for the naptha process? I am worried that I would not be able to keep the naptha hot enough.

I am using some pyrex bowls, and they can sit on top of each other, acting as a crude double boiler, but how often should I change the water for maxmum yield? Should I wait till the top bowl heats up before adding the naptha?

What methods do you use to heat up the naptha before using it?

Much thanks,
mzar

Eh, fair enough. I concede that this wasn't good advice. But I think he's taken more than an adequate beating around here for it lately. Let's not allow one instance of poor/hasty judgement to nullify his contributions. And no, I dont own any Q21Q21 stock nor am I otherwise personally vested.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

Sep funnels

American Science & Surplus

American Science and Surplus offers tools, toys, science kits, educational toys, school supplies, arts and crafts items, hobby tools, scales, lab glass, housewares, electronics and much more all at discount incredible prices

www.sciplus.com

This place is actually within 10 minutes of where I live.

Search for 'funnel'; its the second item on the list that comes up.


26 bucks + shipping for a 500 ml

 

[Spock's Brain]

I can't think of a good reason not to buy a sep funnel.. online, or otherwise!

 

[amor_fati]

Separatory funnels can be incredibly fragile, so SWIM understands the desire for an alternative. He broke his not long ago and switched to cheaper methods that are just as simple, though not quite as automatic. Freeze separation is great for speeding up the separation of limonene from an aqueous layer and to simplify high volume separation. And glass gravy separators work quite easily, are simple to clean, and generally aren't quite as expensive and fragile as a separatory funnel. One problem with using a separatory funnel is that can't simply be set down and need to be held or attached to a stand, but they're not too bad if you're careful and have a reasonably uncluttered workspace and decent means of storage.