Should I be cautious??

[optyks]

A friend of mine thinks she's ready to explore hyperspace this week, but... Some things have come up that have gotten me from thinking "Alright, let's do it" to "i... don't know how to tell her i don't think she is."
See... Shes got bi-polar and depression, and although she's taking meds for them, i am not so sure.

I had a trip today... Crazy De ja vu the whole time. It was cool at first but it started to turn neutral then a little anxiety ridden for a while til it ended. I was happy afterwards, and I think honestly because I was out of it and back to normal; since then, the thought that i REALLY don't think she's ready is pretty strong..

Your thoughts?

Also, as an additionally unrelated question.. Are there different levels to hyperspace? The first time I did it has so far been the most... interesting? In short, i landed in a desert, saw a huge cathedral in the distance... then I was in it, saw 5 sentient entities... went through a wormhole and was in a different version of the garden back at my moms house.
Since then, I've mostly just gotten crazy visuals and crazy feelings, no other worlds or anything

 

[Skizm]

I once gave DMT to a friend of mine, was excited to do it. After his mind was thoroughly blown he proceeded to reveal some things to me that I wished I had known before hand. Depression, mental psychosis, time in an institution, suicidal thoughts, pill addiction, the list goes on. Anyway, it allowed me to think about just what the hell to do when introducing people to DMT, especially breakthrough doses.

Get her to do a small dose, see how she likes it. If she does and wants to do more, be honest with her. DMT is intense, issues under the surface tend to surface.

 

[olympus mon]

maybe its just me but ive never seen an unstable person outwardly benefit from taking these substances. they usually get more troubled and dysfunctional. so the question is, is your friend unstable or just on meds? many people are on meds and partake in these plants but if someone is "off" then that's a different thing.

be careful optyks please. i have 2 friends in my life that have mental instability and every time they took psychedelics the had very bad bouts of psychosis landing one in a hospital and almost arrested the other suicidal and self hospitalized. it wasn't right away either. it would start creeping in and within a couple months they had taking a very bad turn for the worst mentally.

im not sure of the effects of dmt and Psyche issues but i hope you find out before you give your friend some. as you know this is some powerful stuff that stable minds can have difficulty with. whats to say its not too much for a mind that is compromised with abnormal chemistry and disturbances.

i would hate to see dmt cause harm. thats all.

 

[corpus callosum]

I would advise against you having any part in furnishing your friend with DMT; with major mental health issues such as bipolar disorder the chances of your friend having a relapse is significant. For the sake of your conscience and your friends well-being I would suggest that you dont proceed.

Regarding hyperspace and whether it has different levels, I reckon that it can reveal a myriad of different experiences albeit of a similar intensity and I think mindset and setting play a part in this.Especially with vaporised DMT and particularly if you consume the dose in one breath you can reach a level where hyperspace becomes a place of boundless flux and energy which can be very tricky to work with in terms of making any sense of it/gaining anything worthwhile-apart from the experience itself.

 

[optyks]

Interesting information, thanks for the replies.

She's done mushrooms and acid before. She's sworn off mushrooms because she always ends up having a bad trip, but with acid she is always fine...
I'm still on the fence about it. There have been numerous times where I don't think she can handle something, or I don't think shes ready for something, and she proves me wrong.
This seems like a slightly different case though.
I'll heed your warnings. I don't know how much she's read up on it. More than a little, but probably not a whole lot.. I should urge her to do so.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

people may disagree with this statement, but, imo, DMT is infinitely closer to mushrooms than acid. If she struggles with mushrooms, I would keep her far away from DMT. Actually, given that there are no certified doctors giving advice and your friend has serious mental issues, I would strongly advise against her taking dmt in any form. If she really wants to use it, I'd advise she talk to a legitimate medical professional.

peace
SB

 

[hyperspacing]

I have a friend who is bipolar that I eased into spice. Well actually it was changa. She stopped taking her prozac for a few days and I let her try a small amount. She enjoyed it and didn't experience negative effects so I let her try more. A few sessions later she had her first good breakthrough. Its been months and she hasn't had any problems with depression or mood swings. She says it feels as if when she has a good session it calibrates her mind. "Resets it to zero" is one way she described it.

I also would get depressed on ocassion and since discovering spice I havnt had an occurance in almost a year. My friend has gone about 6 months without any issues yet.

I don't know if this will work for everyone. It helped me and other people I know. Currently I'm working with a friends mother who is terminally ill. Since her first contact with changa she has been a diffrent person. She doesn't believe its gonna cure her or anything like that but she said its the first time she has been truly happy since her diagnosis.

I think changa and aya have a lot of potential for healing the mind. As for straight spice, that may be too high of octane for a person with mental stability issues

Much love

 

[camdemonium]

SPICE FOR ALL

What pharmaceuticals is she on? Because benzos will significantly detract from any psychedelic.

But then again if she can't handle mushrooms she could seriously lose it on DMT, especially if she has already had psychotic breakdowns, then it will be very easy to "flashback" right into them again. I personally can't handle LSD anymore, it always sends me so close to the loop, and i am still trying to figure out why...

And snozz is right mushrooms and dmt are undoubtedly more similar to each other (so similar that the molecules for psylocin and dmt are literally one step away) than lsd (an ergoline) and dmt, lsd IMO is a cruel psychedelic joke and has no spiritual value.

 

[thewinningtaste]

"maybe its just me but ive never seen an unstable person outwardly benefit from taking these substances. they usually get more troubled and dysfunctional."

not to sound strange, but i have some messed up mental issues, and i only got a some what better grip on my world after my nde the first time i tried the spice. i didnt think death was so bad until i died and accepted the nothingness of the afterlife. and when i came back,,, words cant describe how beautiful the world was. everything i overlooked or ignore on why the world is worth being in, was making a very valid arguement on why i should live.

ive also had the dosing guilt though. like, i feel like im treating it like a drug when i honestly think of it as so much more than that. so, i think it should be decided on how your friend wants to try it. does she think its a tripppy high? or does she understand its ability to completely change a person?/ through a good or bad trip

 

[Dimitrius]

people may disagree with this statement, but, imo, DMT is infinitely closer to mushrooms than acid. If she struggles with mushrooms, I would keep her far away from DMT. Actually, given that there are no certified doctors giving advice and your friend has serious mental issues, I would strongly advise against her taking dmt in any form. If she really wants to use it, I'd advise she talk to a legitimate medical professional.

peace
SB

I think I'd have to agree with snozz here. It's left up to you though, to make the best decision for/with your friend.

It may just not be for her (at this moment). It's just not my cup o' tea to bring increased instability into someone's life. It may not happen if she were to do it, but....not on my watch.

I could be wrong though.

Sounds like you're going to have to talk it out with her either way.

 

[digital_phreedom]

I know that being cautious, very cautious, is the usual reply to these questions.. And I definitely agree with it. But I just feel like I should add..

In my life I have been institutionalized for depression, about 4 days in a locked down mental facility when I was 10 years old and my parents were getting divorced.

I've been to maximum security prisons. (For non-violent drug crimes, yay society..)

I've been diagnosed at one time or another with: chronic depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, chemical dependency, generalized anxiety disorder, and bi-polar was a considered diagnosis at one point as well.

I've been on more anti-depressant meds than I care to remember.

And I had to be hospitalized during one of my early LSD trips. (I was definitely a little too young at that point to be toying with LSD.. Only 17, though for some people that seems to be ok, I certainly wasn't ready)

But through it all, psychedelics have had a profoundly positive impact on my life. Despite my difficulties, I've also accomplished a lot.. I don't say this to brag, but since I'm revealing all these 'negative' parts of my life, I'd also like to share that I have also excelled in several areas, mainly academic. Before my legal difficulties, I did very well in school, and even began attending a state university at the age of 13, after the first semester though I missed my friends and was a little too anxious around so many older people, so I decided to go back to high school. I think it may be my intelligence and curiosity that have acted as part of the catalyst in my growth and healing through psychedelics.

Without Ibogaine I may still be addicted to heroin, or dead. Without LSD I would probably still be an athiest (not saying that's a bad choice or anything, but i'm much happier with some spirituality in my life, it's a personal choice obviously). Without MDMA I would probably still be dealing with some PTSD issues. And DMT and LSD have both helped me to see areas of my life from different perspectives, and whether I want to or not, I always see the areas of my life that need improvement with great clarity while under the influence of these chemicals.

So yes, caution is very important indeed, but I don't think history of mental "problems" is any reason to rule this stuff out altogether.

 

[mumbles]

Introduce people slowly. Don't give them a breakthrough dose first time that's just reckless, I sure as hell wouldn't want to talk into that one myself out of the blue.

 

[justine]

Without LSD I would probably still be an athiest (not saying that's a bad choice or anything, but i'm much happier with some spirituality in my life, it's a personal choice obviously).

Hum, not to launch a debate but atheism and spirituality are FAR from being mutually exclusive.

 

[digital_phreedom]

^^
I understand what you're saying, but it's all in the eye of the beholder I think.

 

[The_Shaman]

a Relative of a Friend asked swim to help her son, a hopeless crack addict. after much debate and swim being really hesitant to do so, he gave in and tried offering the addict Changa in as spiritual setting as possible, dedicating a good 6-8 hours to 3 sessions, to hopefully give him a psychedelic shake up and maybe help him find a new path, at least show him that such medicine exists.

after 3 unsuccessful attempts over an entire day , swim gave up. the addict did not see or feel much of anything on doses that would send swim to the moon and back.

something about his psychical/mental/spiritual state seemed to keep him from having any reaction at all, he achieved nothing more then closed eyes and quiet for 1 minute or so, but that was IT ~ he stated he only was looking and waiting for something to happen.


so, just another thought on the subject , it is not for everyone and apparently can be rendered inert by certain peoples and their energies.

 

[The Centre]

I'm bi-polar. I even have PTSD from a car accident a year ago. (I was hit by a car going 80km/h, I was on a bicycle with no helmet on. I stood up straight afterwords and looked at the car. The car was fucked. I had a little bit of roadburn. I converted to Christianity (a different version to what you hear in churches, or the version you get from reading the bible, but the version you get when you meet Christ and experience the Death and Rebirth he speaks of.) and quite Marijuana and cigarettes.)
I got through it OK, in fact, I've never been better. Don't get me wrong, it was the scariest experience of my life, it made the3 car crash look like, but it was what I needed. I was thinking of quitting University and going to live with some weirdo in a cave at the time. I then realized how good I have it and I haven't had a Bi-Polar episode since. My life long depression was lifted and my bi-polar is gone. I do not take meds anymore. My fear has been reduced, the PTSD is gone. I am committing to University. I appreciate what was given to me. I had a death wish my whole life, and although I chose against suicide a long time, the death wish was still there, I just looked for it in a different place. (I actually looked for it in psychedelics, after reading the millions of faulty descriptions of ego-death.) I now appreciate my life, I love life, I am so glad to live, and I do not want to die any more. I do not want to leave this planet any more. I found my destiny, I am going to be a Nature Photographer, I am going to grow my own food, and I am going to surf my brains out! I love life, I have more passion than ever before, and I seriously recommend that anyone with the guts to pick up the pipe and take the hit, DO IT. You will not be disappointed in the long term. Just know, you can NEVER, EVER be ready for DMT. DMT will show you more than you ever wanted to see, you will know more than should be known by any human being, but IT IS WORTH IT IN THE END!

DMT showed me how lucky I am to be alive in this body God has given me, and I praise him for the shocks he sent out to me to remind me. First I fell off a cliff, and nothing much happened to me, then I got hit by a car, nothing much happened to me, then I tried DMT... Well I got through all of that unscathed, and DMT certainly was the most intense of all of them. It was the most powerful thing that ever happened to me, and I can not wait to try it again.

Also, as a side note, as I am writing this, a 3 year long drought has just been broken, it is raining, it is pouring, and I praise GOD!