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Significantly increasing DMT content of DMT-plants?
- Thread starter SKA
- Start date
Ooh Fresh Psychotria Viridis seeds with a high germination rate.
Seems like SWIM needs to establish some contacts in brazil. Maybe he will be able to do that via the members of the local Santo Daime church with whom he's drank ayahuasca in 1 of their ceremonies before. He knows that Santo Daime has a number of P.Viridis farms in brazil from which they import and make huasca. No Idea if they'd be willing to help SWIM to some good, viable P.Viridis seeds.
Seems like SWIM needs to establish some contacts in brazil. Maybe he will be able to do that via the members of the local Santo Daime church with whom he's drank ayahuasca in 1 of their ceremonies before. He knows that Santo Daime has a number of P.Viridis farms in brazil from which they import and make huasca. No Idea if they'd be willing to help SWIM to some good, viable P.Viridis seeds.
Now it is free.Evening Glory said:
Sorry for delay. Here are the sources. I believe there are more examples out there as well but these are the two I have.
Alkaloidal Insect Antifeedants from Virola calophylla Warb. Miles et al. 1987
Indolealkylamines of Desmanthus illinoensis and Their Growth Inhibition Activity. Thompson et al. 1987
Alkaloidal Insect Antifeedants from Virola calophylla Warb. Miles et al. 1987
Indolealkylamines of Desmanthus illinoensis and Their Growth Inhibition Activity. Thompson et al. 1987
SWIM was recently offered Acacia Maidenii seeds so he started considering the pros and cons of A.Maidenii's cultivation requirements, spice-content variability and the plant-safety of harvesting it's bark.
SWIM thought he could try to urge horizontal growth, rather than Vertical growth so optimal bark was grown. In the form of either a really thick main stem/trunk or many sideway branches.
While pondering on that he thought of reducing the harm done to A.Maidenii when it's bark is harvested and he remembered having heard about a botanical paste that's smeared on tree wounds so they are protected from fungi and heal faster.
Then SWIM started to wonder if A.Maidenii would be able to absorb DMT-precursors like Tryptophan and/or Tryptamine through the bare, barkless wound-surface area?
SWIM has no idea how likely this is to be successfull; he's no expert in phyto chemistry, but perhaps there's someone here that knows wether this is possible?
If it were possible then this Botanical paste SWIM spoke of before could be mixed with a tryptamine and/or tryptophan rich solution. This could be smeared on the A.Maidenii's wounds made by harvesting Bark and protect, heal and spice up the plant all at once.
SWIM thought he could try to urge horizontal growth, rather than Vertical growth so optimal bark was grown. In the form of either a really thick main stem/trunk or many sideway branches.
While pondering on that he thought of reducing the harm done to A.Maidenii when it's bark is harvested and he remembered having heard about a botanical paste that's smeared on tree wounds so they are protected from fungi and heal faster.
Then SWIM started to wonder if A.Maidenii would be able to absorb DMT-precursors like Tryptophan and/or Tryptamine through the bare, barkless wound-surface area?
SWIM has no idea how likely this is to be successfull; he's no expert in phyto chemistry, but perhaps there's someone here that knows wether this is possible?
If it were possible then this Botanical paste SWIM spoke of before could be mixed with a tryptamine and/or tryptophan rich solution. This could be smeared on the A.Maidenii's wounds made by harvesting Bark and protect, heal and spice up the plant all at once.
Bump!
Discussing the manipulation of DMT biosynthesis in DMT-plants with a friend, my friend suggested genetic modification
of the enzymes that limit DMT production. He's a beginning biochemistry student.
Now I am not able to alter genes, but it got me thinking:
Are there not specific nutrients that can significantly boost the activity of the enzymes responsible for DMT production, when fed to the plant through it's water? Likewise, are there not compounds that supress the factors limiting the amount of DMT that can be produced, that can be fed to the plant through it's water?
If so, a mixture of compounds dissolved in the water in the water fed to a DMT-plant, could significantly boost the DMT content of that plant without requiring genetic modification skills, equipment & knowledge.
Phalaris Arindinacea with %-ages of up to 1% wouldn't be bad at all
Discussing the manipulation of DMT biosynthesis in DMT-plants with a friend, my friend suggested genetic modification
of the enzymes that limit DMT production. He's a beginning biochemistry student.
Now I am not able to alter genes, but it got me thinking:
Are there not specific nutrients that can significantly boost the activity of the enzymes responsible for DMT production, when fed to the plant through it's water? Likewise, are there not compounds that supress the factors limiting the amount of DMT that can be produced, that can be fed to the plant through it's water?
If so, a mixture of compounds dissolved in the water in the water fed to a DMT-plant, could significantly boost the DMT content of that plant without requiring genetic modification skills, equipment & knowledge.
Phalaris Arindinacea with %-ages of up to 1% wouldn't be bad at all
Anodyne
Rising Star
I don't know about DMT specifically, but generally speaking alkaloid production can often be boosted simply by increasing nitrogen supply. Either by adding fertiliser, or by introducing nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Or both. Some plants grown commercially for their alkaloids reported significant increases (up to double or triple, in some cases!) in yield after inoculation with nitrogen-fixing bacteria like Azotobacter. This is a particularly interesting avenue with acacias, as they are leguminous plants which have root nodules specifically for housing nitrogen-fixing bacteria. There are also types of N-fixing bacteria which don't require nodules and just live "free"in the soil, and these can be used to inoculate any plant, or simply used to improve the soil. They have apparently been used in commercial organic farming for ages, and there are programs to introduce them in poor areas where farmers cannot afford fertilisers for their crops.
I know, it sounds too simple to be true. And who knows, maybe something about the synthesis pathway of DMT in plants means that it wouldn't work in this particular case. It's certainly not as cool as some kind of plasmid-clipping technique. Then again, it would be much easier to test.
I know, it sounds too simple to be true. And who knows, maybe something about the synthesis pathway of DMT in plants means that it wouldn't work in this particular case. It's certainly not as cool as some kind of plasmid-clipping technique. Then again, it would be much easier to test.
imPsimon
Rising Star
I just saw this documentary some day ago, "In the mind of plants"
In it they talk about some interesting and possibly applicable thing.
When an acacia tree was being overgrazed by animals it increased some chemicals that killed of a lot
of the grazers and also releasing "ethylene" gas in the wind which also triggered this upped
chemical makeup in other trees, also killing of animals.
So is DMT one of these chemicals? The documentary only says "tannins" and I can't find any details on what chemicals
are involved.
Wouter Van Hoven is the researcher who made the discovery, maybe someone else has better luck then me on
finding some chemical data.
Ethylene gas is easy to produce with ripening fruit but if it's enough to trigger a change I don't know.
One idea is to ripen fruit in one or more bags and then enclose the plants or branches for a while.
Most discussion of increasing alkaloid content have circled around physical hardening like wind, water, heat and drying etc.
I like the idea of hijacking the plants communication system as it's not a well researched area so there's
probably a lot to learn.
Maybe there are similar responses in other plants we like?
What other chemical gasses can be used?
F ex What gasses are released when a bunch of phalaris is mowed to the ground and how does it effect
it's nearby friends?...
Unfortunately I don't have anything to experiment on=(
In it they talk about some interesting and possibly applicable thing.
When an acacia tree was being overgrazed by animals it increased some chemicals that killed of a lot
of the grazers and also releasing "ethylene" gas in the wind which also triggered this upped
chemical makeup in other trees, also killing of animals.
So is DMT one of these chemicals? The documentary only says "tannins" and I can't find any details on what chemicals
are involved.
Wouter Van Hoven is the researcher who made the discovery, maybe someone else has better luck then me on
finding some chemical data.
Ethylene gas is easy to produce with ripening fruit but if it's enough to trigger a change I don't know.
One idea is to ripen fruit in one or more bags and then enclose the plants or branches for a while.
Most discussion of increasing alkaloid content have circled around physical hardening like wind, water, heat and drying etc.
I like the idea of hijacking the plants communication system as it's not a well researched area so there's
probably a lot to learn.
Maybe there are similar responses in other plants we like?
What other chemical gasses can be used?
F ex What gasses are released when a bunch of phalaris is mowed to the ground and how does it effect
it's nearby friends?...
Unfortunately I don't have anything to experiment on=(
Anodyne said:
the problem with biotransformation (plasma-clipping, as you mentioned it) is reversion back to wild-type genetics in future generations.
if we observe the 'defense mechanism' theory of these alkaloids, then supplementation with fertilizer and environmental stressors would be a more practical approach
imPsimon
Rising Star
benzyme said:
I don't know what the evidence says about if our "favoured" chemicals are used for defence or something else and I'm pretty ignorant of what current data says but say that it would be true, "a more practical approach" doesn't have to equal a more effective one.
Do the sience lean in any particular direction regarding the "Defence Mechanism" theory?
effective in the cost-effective/effort sense.
and yes, the self-defense mechanism is the often-toted explanation in various literature, for the existence of various alkaloids, whether it be from fauna of the four or six-legged varieties.
and yes, the self-defense mechanism is the often-toted explanation in various literature, for the existence of various alkaloids, whether it be from fauna of the four or six-legged varieties.
imPsimon
Rising Star
I hope someone at least puts in some "effort" =)
In the documentary they artificially grazed a tree and the result was 4 times as many alkaloids...all of
which might be useless to us...bummer.
...but then again, maybe not:thumb_up:
Hopefully someone out there with access to some acacias can do some grazing and report back=)
Maybe if the tree in the middle is grazed the surrounding trees will follow.
In the documentary they artificially grazed a tree and the result was 4 times as many alkaloids...all of
which might be useless to us...bummer.
...but then again, maybe not:thumb_up:
Hopefully someone out there with access to some acacias can do some grazing and report back=)
Maybe if the tree in the middle is grazed the surrounding trees will follow.