slight problem

[brokenChild]

The confusion is bound to be there... Because Jin is bringing you out, taking your focus to the outside.

And I'm bringing you in, telling you to focus on the inside. My experience has been so far that once the internal order of things is properly settled, understood and aligned, the external, or the outside order of things also properly aligns itself.

If you try to do both, you will split yourself, because half of you will want to do one, and half of you will want to do another, so you will half-do both. Never half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing. Pick 1


So what I'm saying is there's no need to get rid of the chatter, and there's no need to avoid anything. The only real need is to be aware of everything, and it settles on its own accord. You don't have to fight with it, you can't "make" it go away, but it goes away naturally, a little bit every day you will get calmer and more settled.

Music can certainly be useful to create a more peaceful atmosphere (just don't get attached to always needing sound, because then if you don't have it that same anxiety and all of those issues will resurface, don't get attached to anything and be aware of all that is... some things external can certainly be used to help, the internal and the external are not really separate so much, they are symbiotic aspects of one whole), the caffeeine tho... I'm a regular coffee drinker and it even gets me wired, I don't think it's such a wise idea in your current position because it'll make you wired for a few hours, and will most likely not help the chaos much, unless you can put that energy to productive use somehow.

In any case, try it for yourself and see.

Just be aware of the judgements and don't let them in, see things for the way they are, not for the way they ought to be.

As for letting go, there's nothing to hold on to, so letting go is not a problem. What are you hanging on to? look into that, and you'll see that it's just an idea

Just be, and be aware, that is enough. Let everything else come out of your own awareness of the situation, and your own proper judgement. That's pretty much all there is to it

 

[brokenChild]

Just be, and be aware, that is enough. Let everything else come out of your own awareness of the situation, and your own proper judgement

... and your own personal understanding.

 

[Jin]

So what I'm saying is there's no need to get rid of the chatter, and there's no need to avoid anything. The only real need is to be aware of everything, and it settles on its own accord. You don't have to fight with it, you can't "make" it go away, but it goes away naturally, a little bit every day you will get calmer and more settled.

isn't this kinda like the old model of psychotherapy ,

what i am talking about is more like a magic trick

the caffeeine tho... I'm a regular coffee drinker and it even gets me wired, I don't think it's such a wise idea in your current position because it'll make you wired for a few hours, and will most likely not help the chaos much, unless you can put that energy to productive use somehow.

well my dosage is very precise and i promise you it has a very precise effect , it will not get you wired as this is 1/4th of what nescafe has listed on their box as 1 teaspoonfull or what one gets at starbucks or something this is even way less than the caffiene amount in cola's ,

also 4.5 hours apart is optimal time and very precise aswell

also once again for safety reason its 250 mg coffee not 250 mg caffiene as that would be way too much , really too much , be careful with this , its important to weigh your dose

also much good advice from Broken Child , and i am not disagreeing with anything you're saying Broken Child , i am only trying to give our friend Led Smoke something that works very quick , extremely quick

 

[brokenChild]

isn't this kinda like the old model of psychotherapy ,

what i am talking about is more like a magic trick

Not really an old model of psychotherapy, as much as an old model for recovering basic moment awareness, I would say it's more meditative than psychotherapeutic. It gives him basic insight into his own state, and if anything needs to be addressed he will have the insight to do it personally.

As far as the magic trick, I'm not disagreeing there, it can be useful, but the way you presented it would create attachment to sound. So then silence becomes "uncomfortable" over time. But both exist. So music can certainly be used to calm the mind and create a peaceful ambiance/atmosphere, as long as it does not create attachment

well my dosage is very precise and i promise you it has a very precise effect , it will not get you wired as this is 1/4th of what nescafe has listed on their box as 1 teaspoonfull or what one gets at starbucks or something this is even way less than the caffiene amount in cola's ,

also 4.5 hours apart is optimal time and very precise aswell

also once again for safety reason its 250 mg coffee not 250 mg caffiene as that would be way too much , really too much , be careful with this , its important to weigh your dose

also much good advice from Broken Child , and i am not disagreeing with anything you're saying Broken Child , i am only trying to give our friend Led Smoke something that works very quick , extremely quick

I have no experience with those doses of caffeine, I know there's 60-120mg caffeine in a cup of coffe, and that can be a bit much if you're not used to it. Past that I don't know what effect you're going for since I've never tried it.

Also wasn't trying to make it seem contradictory, all input is good input, as long as it helps :thumb_up:

 

[ledsmoke]

I understand the idea behind sound meditation. since sounds are still awareness watching awareness I presume?

As for the idea? Can i truly simply just throw it out? Is it not in my mind now? I know it will grow by focusing on it so i assume the opposite pertains to it as well. I think i'm holding onto the feeling of being in that heightened state and feeling like I failed due to causing myself to lose it. But the basis is the idea and that was the cause.

Jin: using this technique what type of clarity? Will my mind once again flow freely? deeper insight? recall? I assume so since it is a meditation.

What I mean by self is really my security of self or beliefs and things I feel strongly about.

Thank you once again to the both of you for the sound advice. The Nexus has been a very helpful place.

 

[brokenChild]

As for the idea? Can i truly simply just throw it out? Is it not in my mind now? I know it will grow by focusing on it so i assume the opposite pertains to it as well. I think i'm holding onto the feeling of being in that heightened state and feeling like I failed due to causing myself to lose it. But the basis is the idea and that was the cause.

There are two ways you can be related to your biomemory. One, is factual recall, so you can tell me about the first time you ever drove a car, or tried ice cream, or ate strawberries, or a whole host of other things, if I were to inquire. That recall is available to you, and it's just factual information stored in memory.

Another way you can relate to your biomemory is the psychological hang-up. The emotional attachment, or unfulfillment, of some situation or aspect. The difference between the two needs to be clearly understood. This second type of hang-up is psychological attachment to the factual memory, and the reason there is psychological attachment to it is because the experience itself never grew into full fulfillment, so it's fragmented, and it basically begs for completion. That's why it's somewhat problematic. It will keep "repeating" itself in your conscious mind constantly, untill fulfilled, or satisfied, and therein lies the attachment. The regular memory is not stored in your "conscious space" so-to-speak, your daily waking consciousness, but it's always available for conscious recall (because if we always had every memory in our direct and present consciousness, then life would be a bit chaotic, all those memories and ideas all at once)

So it boils down to the memories in your conscious space, the ones that keep repeating themselves through thought, so-to-speak. Obviously you can't fulfill a past event, because the past is gone, and life is always in the present. So you would have to detach yourself from that memory, just take your focus away from it, and it will go dormant

There's also ways to complete psychological hangups through meditative awareness, by mentally re-living the idea to completion in the mind's eye, however you wanted it completed, and that would take it from being a psychological hang-up, to being just a memory available for recall, so it psychologically detaches you from it and takes it out of your conscious space... and then you can live that idea (not that very same specific action, because that was in the past, but that same idea under some other present-moment specifics) out to fulfillment in another present moment totally, whenever you're ready.

Think of it like a heart-break, or just a relationship gone bad with some girl... If you broke up over some mistake, whether done by you or her, but you really loved her, you would have that hang up... so your love never really came to a full natural peak that it was intended to, so it hangs around. Obviously you can't re-live that moment, because she's no longer interested and circumstances are different, but you can "mentally" re-live it, free yourself from the memory, and then actually live that natural completion with another woman in actual life, if that makes sense... so you free yourself from the past to make yourself totally available to the present.


But you can't destroy something in memory, it will continue to exist as an idea, available for recall, but it won't "haunt" you anymore if you understand me rightly

 

[ledsmoke]

So fulfill what I would have done if I never chose to attach to that thought is essentially what your getting at? Make a memory of what I would've done? This will create a completion and instead of having negative attachment it will vanish since the illusion of attachment to the emotional side of it is gone?

My memory is strange now though, patchy is a good word, might be due to my mind being focused on other things?

 

[brokenChild]

Basically. Give it any form of completion you want. You will still have the original memory, and the understanding that you "completed" it, in a way, and that would detach you from it, but on the same note you understand it's not real, so the experience itself within you is yet to be lived out in your real waking life, whatever that experience may be

And it will be unique to a different time and a different situation, with different specifics when it does blossom.

Also understand the memory itself will not vanish. The only thing that will cease to be is this psychological attachment to it, this emotional unfulfillment. You will always be able to recall it as factual information, but it will no longer be a wound.

And yes, some of your memory is bound to be a little foggy since you are working on other things through your mind. Once you establish more clarity, over time, everything will be more easily accessible

 

[ledsmoke]

Next thing is reganing my personality and sense of self after that. I do not know if that is possible though or if I must restart there

 

[brokenChild]

Don't worry about your personality, it's a shifting phenomenon, it's not set in stone. In either case personality is a mask we use to relate with the world, it's irrelevant. I would place energy into being more aware, and then whatever comes out of that will automatically improve personality traits, and will help you grow towards your true self... so again sense of self is also insignificant. The self that you claim you want back is nothing more than concepts, ideas, beliefs, and experiences that were instilled in you or developed throughout your growing life, it too is pretty much irrelevant.

There's going to be a bit of a temporary disorientation, of course, while you discover the real self, but dig deep and long enough, and you will never have to worry about another problem again. You will have stability and roots into your own being, which is really the only thing worth discovering

 

[Jin]

the kind of clarity where your mind will stop thinking forever , no your mind will not again flow freely ,it will be totally under your control giving you the rightful position as its master

some deep insights might come up from time to time yet the purpose behind this meditation is not to have deep insights or have the mind flow freely , the purpose is simply to have a clear mind forever and reside in supreme peace and joy

once you understand that you are not your mind , you are not your thoughts , you are not the deep insights you have , you are not your memories , you are a being free from all that , the story of you're life you've attached to is the reason for your misery , when you realize that the sounds you hear are you , infact the life you're experiencing is you

what is life ? what are you experiencing right now ? are'nt you experiencing your own self ?

thousands of years back our ancestors lived in the caves and hunted animals or gathered food , from that very extreme climate humans were able to shape it into the modern luxurious world that we have today , how could they really survive in such harsh environment , well it is due to tricks like focusing on sound humans were able to navigate the harshness easy

this is a warrior' trick , its not about deep insights , its about getting the work done

at a point of time in my life i had lost my mind very badly , i had overdosed on various substances in combinations with meth , all my dreams , memories , identity and everything i wanted to do was now far out of my reach , i was even afraid of crossing the road , i would shake uncontrolably at the sight of traffic being afraid whether i want to cross the road or not (there is a lot of traffic in the city where i live )

anyways i had to get my life back together , i had to accomplish what i wanted in life , i had to fulfill my dreams and things i wanted to do , so i started experimenting with various techniques to get my mind under control , thus the idea of focusing on sounds was born out of that , one day i realized i could cross the road easily if only i listened to the sounds of the traffic , then i started to hear the birds ,whole life just opened to me i started hearing all the sounds , not only music , i started hearing sounds from everywhere , i realized the voice in my head making me feel worse was my enemy , it was my ego , it was stopping me from experiencing life more fully

i did'nt pay anymore attention to my thoughts , memories or the voice in my head anymore and started enjoying my time on the planet by listenin to all the sounds that i can , i hear my footsteps when i walk , i hear the birds and the noises , i hear humans talking too

yet the trick is not trying to understand the sounds , only listen to them ........as trying to understand any sounds especially human language can lead to more thinkin as language is only in our heads and only humans can understand it , terms like past or future can only exist in our language even when they really don't exist as anymore than concepts used to describe something , where is 2012 ? hey its not here anymore , its just in human language , where is tommorow .....oh yes its in language tooo

this trick is not about reflection , there are types of meditation which lead to reflection and deep insights , this ain't that , this is more about increasing focus and concentration , so when you point that focus at anything you will succeed

perhaps you have a job to get done , this will help you there , this is about making life easier and more fun each moment you live , this is about getting whatever you want in life done ? even if you had to fight a war this technique will help you win

there is a tale of a famous archer who did'nt even need to see his opponent to shoot arrows at him , he could basicly hear his opponents footsteps from far away and shoot arrows from vast distances without ever seeing his opponent .......he was called Ashwathama and this is like his trick

drive you car with more joy , get all the work you want done in your life with more ease , this is just about that , this is a skill an extremely good one , cultivate it and you may reap the rewards

unlike other methods where you have to sort your feelings out or something , this is not depending on you atall , the method is so reliable it does everything for you on its own , you just have to pay attention to all the sounds , this will keep you present in all moments of life , its about staying present forever

something about sound and silence as this method will definetly create attachment to sound as already pointed out by broken Child ,

true silence = total abscence of sounds

our ears are designed to only hear sounds as abscence of sound can never really be heard with our human ear , what we call silence is the gaps between the noises that we hear , yet it is not true silence , true silence actually means hearing nothing atall , silence cannot really be heard , even if you can put ear plugs in you ears and sit in a cave slowly you'll hear the buzz inside your head which some call white noise and the yogis call it "OM"

try hearing silence if you can , i have found its not possible to hear silence as we can only hear the gaps between the noises which we mistakenly assume is silence , as silence means no sound and if it is no sound then how did you hear it anyways ?

also if you find humanly silence you'll find you thoughts becoming louder , that is why i don't advise paying attention to human silence , also i don't advice listening to white noise in the head even if you can find a cave as that is a problem in its own way

true silence = no sound , that which is not there can never be heard as its not there

human silence = gaps between noises

also the goal is not only to listen to music , music is only pratice to learn to pay attention to all sounds , even the hardcore noises of traffic

don't avoid anything , consume all the sound you can , this is consuming energy from your ears , its a kind of food our higher selves need

remember listen to sounds even while doing any work ......this will make it easier 100% guranteed

the goal of many meditative practices is to get out of ones mind and experience the world for what it is ? this technique is not really a path it is the destination

free your mind ( pun intended)

 

[brokenChild]

^thanks, btw. Was very ear-opening I will admit I don't place nearly as much awareness on the sounds around me as I should, in any case can be very useful

Also one side note on awareness... awareness does not involve thought, it's just conscious present-moment awareness. So it's not that you're aware of some phenomenon, and then you start thinking into it, it's being aware of the phenomenon itself. The thinking is the barrier

If thinking happens, be aware that thinking is happening, but don't get identified with it. Don't get attached, it will die down if you disregard the chatter

 

[anrchy]

It's been since feb since my last real dose. It has taken this much time for me to integrate most of it and feel closer to the normal I remember. Abstinence and focus on things that make me happy and new hobbies, life choices, ect have brought me to this point. Don't focus on it, move past it. Energy flows where attention goes.

 

[brokenChild]

I guess one more thing I should add about awareness, it's not a focusing, nor is it concentration, and by no means is it "contemplation"... all of those things are mainly functions of mind. Awareness is more of a slow, relaxed, expansion. Just being conscious of all that is

I think you can figure out the rest :thumb_up:

 

[ledsmoke]

Did I not discover my true self during my awakening? I had focus then, I could look at images and watch them change while sober. certain images mind you, my attachment was gone. But I had this inner feeling that guided me and left me stable. That self that inner flame.

By flowing freely I mean under my control flowing into my realm of thoughts I wish it to follow. I understand very well I'm none of those things but my self is attached to my mind at the moment so I just have to break the grips on it. Yes I am experiencing the reflection but not not in the manner I once was which is due to my self obviously.

By listening to the sounds everyday I assume eventually I won't have to make a mental mark of doing so it will become a pattern itself.

Is the point not to become attached to things?

I will admit my previous way of being in the moment was more introverted so this method is a grand switch to me. How long will this method take me to unattach from my mind and the chatter?

 

[brokenChild]

Is the point not to become attached to things?

The point is conscious, unattached enjoyment of all that is :lol:

 

[Jin]

Did I not discover my true self during my awakening? I had focus then, I could look at images and watch them change while sober. certain images mind you, my attachment was gone. But I had this inner feeling that guided me and left me stable. That self that inner flame.

awakening can have many levels and there are awakenings after awakenings , try thinking of it like this what if we were given the oppertunity to keep on waking up forever , its not that bad , life is an adventure

By flowing freely I mean under my control flowing into my realm of thoughts I wish it to follow. I understand very well I'm none of those things but my self is attached to my mind at the moment so I just have to break the grips on it. Yes I am experiencing the reflection but not not in the manner I once was which is due to my self obviously.

yes i understand , yet to get things accomplished you have to let it all go , diving into thoughts and deep insights is easy , when you want to do so by choice just let go of hearing and delve into it however you should have the choice to come out of this whenever you want and this is what this technique provides , however i don't recommend diving into thoughts as i believe in getting my work done and for doing work most of the time one has to be free from thoughts as this shows in the quality of work done , example -don't drive the car thinking deep thoughts , watch the traffic and hear the noises

By listening to the sounds everyday I assume eventually I won't have to make a mental mark of doing so it will become a pattern itself.

yes it will take atleast 2 weeks before you have a better grasp of this and atleast 6 weeks when this pattern becomes integrated into your being

Is the point not to become attached to things?

yesssssss, because you are not your thoughts , you are awareness itself ,, realize it

I will admit my previous way of being in the moment was more introverted so this method is a grand switch to me. How long will this method take me to unattach from my mind and the chatter?

it will take 6 weeks atleast however that does'nt mean you can let go of this method ever , because the moment you do slowly thoughts will start creeping in , the trick is Life is one moment called "Now" and this method keeps you present in the Now , and if you live your life like this you'll always be aware in the Now ,

also meditation is not something you do for a day and expect to be enlightened , its more like hey if you want to be enlightened you gotta always meditate ! i know however what would you rather do drop enlightenment and return to human-ness and suffering

be free forever , as life is only one moment called "Now" , you gotta meditate in the "Now" , forever as "Now" never ends

your mind will be stronger very soon , yet i would'nt advice you to ever let this go as the more you do this the stronger you'll become , do it forever and you might laugh at the face of death :twisted:

also remember if you keep enjoying each and every moment of your life you life will become a true expression of happiness and what is a better life than one where each moment is enjoyed to the fullest

yes i am the enjoyer i enjoy life and i enjoy death , i am one of those who enjoy my pain and celebrate it , i dance to the madness , nothing can ever get me down i am free forever

and i am you , we are same , we are one
all of us , we are one

 

[brokenChild]

also meditation is not something you do for a day and expect to be enlightened , its more like hey if you want to be enlightened you gotta always meditate !

Just a matter of semantics, but I would say if you want to be enlightened you gotta always be meditative! (aka consciously aware in the present moment)

:roll:

Also there's no need to fear mind, or thoughts, they are parts of your system, so by extension a part of your whole. Once you understand it, you can go in and out at will, and use it when you need to, and put it aside when you don't. it's just a tool, the root problem is attachment, or identification with thought or mind. If you can see it, then you must be separate from it, so you are that which sees... which is awareness itself

 

[Bill Cipher]

Here's a suggestion:

Get out of your head for awhile. Don't take ANY drugs, exercise everyday, eat right, get plenty of rest and endeavor to let go of all circular mental wanking. Do something maybe in service of others - volunteer a few days at a food bank or something. Leave yourself little time to obsess on pointless and esoteric matters, and they may come to haunt you less and less.

My $.02.

 

[Jin]

:lol: :twisted: :thumb_up:

yessssssssssssssssssssssssss