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Smart Drugs: Going from Larry the cable guy to Stephen Hawking

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vovin

Esteemed member
Senior Member
OG Pioneer
Fellers Imma gonna tell youns how I gots me one dem' dere' PhD’s in rekonin:

Several weeks ago I began prolonged study of the effectiveness of the so-called "smart drugs" which over the years have become popular n the market. These drugs are supposedly able to increase concentration and energy. Some people claim profound effects from various drugs others claim no effect whatsoever. I came soon to the conclusion that if I were going to undertake all of this I should try all that I could get my hands on and see what is the most effective for me. This is a log of each drug as I took it and what effects I experienced while on it.

First before reading this please keep in mind that nootropic effects vary widely. The effects that others or I experience may or may not happen to you. Brain chemistry is a tricky thing and the only way to know if a drug will work for you is to try it yourself. Most nootropics are well researched over a decade or so and found to be completely safe. Depending on your country certain ones may be legal and other illegal. Piracetam is legal as of this writing in the USA but illegal in Australia. This is always changing so I cannot give you a definitive list of what is legal where. Always start on a low dosage and build up never start off with a large does. Be vary meticulous about keeping a record of what you took and anything else you may have taken that day. This will come in handy when you are critiquing your regime for maximum effectiveness.

By far and away the 4 best mind enhancements are, exercise, diet, sleep, and meditation. These 4 will do far more than any drug can do for you. If you are not doing at least 3 of them then you need to take on those tasks before even considering a drug. If your body is not getting the proper water, food and rest it is not getting what it needs to operate effectively and no drug is going to make up for a lack in nutrients and recovery. Any beneficial effects will only serve to weaken you further when not on the drug as it will over tax a already weakened system. One of my associates had excellent results from modafinil but after 3 days of taking it he was so run down and exhausted he could barely get around the house. He simply did not eat well and outright hated to exercise. The result was that the drugs worked for a short while however they took their toll in the end as his bodily resources were quickly run dry.


Piracetam the legal one

The first drug that I acquired was piracetam. It is one of the most popular smart drugs on the market. The main reason being is it is not illegal in the USA and is very cheap. I didn’t expect this drug would do much. It was just too cheap and easy to obtain, 25 dollars for a 6-7 month does taken daily. When I received the package 5 days later I opened it and consumed 1800mg of the piracetam in a mixture of grape juice. The chemical tasted like carnation instant death. It was horrid but I had a capsule maker coming in a few days and I was happy to tolerate the taste until then. Within 45 minutes on an empty stomach it began to take effect.

The effects surprised me. I had taken no choline for the first few days only the piracetam, I was going to add it later if needed. The first pronounced effect was a very strong mood elevation. I felt downright giddy like I had won the lottery, it was kind of overwhelming at first. There was also a large swell of energy, which hit 45 minutes after taking the piracetam and slowly diminished over the period of 5 hours. It was not a 'jerky' energy like drinking coffee but the kind of feeling you get after a very good nights sleep. I felt like one of those 7 year old kids in a store running around like mad with more energy than they could use. The beneficial effects peaked in about 45 minutes on an empty stomach and slowly wore off over the course of 5 hours wherein I took an additional 1200 mg. I was very happy with this compound I knew it was a miracle drug just from the first test. My sleeping patterns did suffer however, I have never slept well but after the piracetam wore off I slept like a rock but only for 4 hours and I could not get back to sleep easily after that. The next day I felt somewhat fatigued as a result until I took more piracetam.

The second day I repeated the does the mood elevation was not as pronounced but still it worked quite well. I had at the time surmised that there might be a tolerance effect of the drug. Others recommended I should buy some choline supplementation to assist as piracetam utilizes this chemical to bring about its effects. I decided on DMAE mainly because it was available in a heath food store and I didn’t have to wait for a mail delivery. My plan was to increase the intake of DMAE over the period of several days until I hit on that perfect balance.

I took the DMAE and the piraetam on the third day, 1200 mg of piracetam twice a day and 300 mg of DMAE also twice a day. I had a mild stimulating feeling I could tell the drug had worked but the mood elevation was not there. However still it affected my sleep patterns significantly. I believe I had a large reserve of choline in my system and I had burnt that off in the first 2 days. The DMAE did not seem to be assisting in replenishing this choline well enough in this dosage to get the full effect I had experienced earlier. I knew from the first 2 days that 3000 mg of piracetam had worked well so I was sure increasing the dosage of piracetam was not going to solve the dilemma I was in. It had to be the choline intake so this was where I would focus my variability in each daily test and see if I could nail down the proper dosage.

One the fourth day I increased the DMAE to 600 mg and the piracetam to 1800mg/1200mg twice a day. The effects were more pronounced but still nothing like what I had experienced at the start. I was somewhat dismayed at this It had worked miracles in the beginning and I was beginning to think that this might be something I could only take once a week. I really wanted to nail down the proper dosage of DMAE I should take however I was not able to find a great deal of information on how much of a choline supplement I should take in ratio to the amount of piracetam I was taking. I was worried that increasing the dosage of choline would be a bad idea. The pills I had acquired were 100 mg and I was taking 12 of them a day as it was. I began to wonder if it had built up a quick tolerance in my system. To test the tolerance of the piracetam and to see if giving time between the drug would assist I decided I should only take it every other day just to see if that had any effect. Still could not replicate the initial experience, while it did work to some degree it was only about 25% as effective as it was the first time I took it. I stayed with the same dosages as day 4 as I did not want to change too many things at once.

The next test I took the same a mount of piracetam 1800mg in the morning 1200mg 5 hours later with 600 mg of DMAE 2 times a day as well. Still the effects were nowhere near as strong as they initially were. Either I needed to extend the time between taking the piracetam or I was not getting the choline I needed. This is when I began to doubt the effectiveness of the DMAE. I gave it 3 days before I would take the next piracetam dosage. I also decided I would quickly switch to alpha-GPC. After some searching I found a local vitamin shoppe that had it available so I began by taking 1800 mg of piracetam and 900 of the alpha-GPC in the morning and 1200 mg of piracetam and another 900 of the alpha-GPC later in the day. This resulted in a fairly large boost in effectiveness I would estimate I was up to 50% of the first experiences.

I gave it 3 days before I decided to try it again. This time I was going to push the limit and take 1800 mg of piracetam and 1200 mg of alpha-GPC twice a day and see if the rise in dosage would increase the beneficial effect. I knew I was on the right track and something either the switch in choline supplementation or the time between dosages seemed to be improving the effect. I wanted to work with one at a time and narrow down where my issues lie.

Currently this is where I am in the research of this drug. I will add updates when I have more information.

I have found piracetam to be a great drug for day-to-day life. It significantly increases mood and social skills as a result. Simply put it increases your charisma, you are a happier person on it and this is reflected in your personality. It would be a great supplement for people to take before going to clubs, dates or speaking to public audiences. There is some issue with the proper intake of choline which is something I still have to iron out but I think I am well on my way to solving this issue. Further research also has brought to my attention that it is a good idea to take a B multivitamin as well. I plan on adding this to my regime in the future.


The next drug I had the opportunity to test was modafinil in the brand name of modalert from sun labs 100 mg.

I started with one 100 mg tablet every other day. There was definitely an effect from this drug but it was nowhere near as powerful as the piracetam. Although it did last some 14-16 hours. I was able to spend long hours working it wasn’t a perceptible experience but my ability to concentrate was definitely enhanced. After 3 days at 100 mg I decided to try 150 mg and the effects were stronger I learned quickly however drinking coffee on this drug was not a good idea. The stimulant effect of it would give me heart palpitations and nausea. They wore off quickly as the caffeine effect wore down. I have a high tolerance to coffee and I hadn’t drunk much so this was something I realized you should avoid.

Since the results seemed steady and reliable I decided to take it daily to see what tolerance effects it would have. After a 3-day intake I noticed no tolerance effects on me whatsoever. You take the pill and get the results, simple as that.

My exercising in the gym while under this drug was also considerably more intense I had more stamina and I didn’t feel bad about working out longer and harder. I didn’t tire so easily, time on the treadmill wasn’t so sluggish and I didn’t constantly watch the timer to see if the time was over yet. I also lasted longer on the treadmill, I was willing to push myself to the limit wherein in earlier exercises when I was not on the drug I would watch the timer obsessively and the second my preassigned time was up I stopped. I am still wondering if this isn’t a placebo effect since my mentality at the time was I had high expectations for modafinil and I had read of people having more intense workouts while on it. If it is a placebo effect it's a good one for sure, I have actually been pondering going to the gym twice a day once for cardio and then later that day for weight training. However I fear that I may overtax my system at this point so I have chosen not to do this yet. My appetite while on modafinil was also affected. I could hear my stomach growling as I hungered but I was so obsessive about working on my task I couldn’t bring myself to stop and 'waste time' making a meal. After the effects wore of later in the day I was starved and would just simply pig out. I soon came to realize that I had to force myself to eat, as after 23 straight days of intense exercise and hard work for the entirety of the day without proper sustenance I was feeling very run down.

My memory recall was significantly enhanced I had begun writing my book the day I started taking the modafinil and I could recall events in my mind that occurred many years ago in sharp detail. However my writing was cold, technical and without emotion. It was as if I were writing an instruction manual on how to use a VCR. There was no emotion no fluidity or creativity in the words. However I was able to write 15 pages straight from memory and I would have gotten more if I didn’t spend several hours that day running errands. I could get stuff done while on modafinil but I didn’t have a perfect memory. I would forget simple things as I became engrossed in the work I was doing. However I have always done this modafinil simply didn’t solve this issue for me.

After a week of taking modafinil I think that it will be my drug of choice. 150 mg is strong and about 45 minutes to a hour after taking it I do experience a little too much of a stimulant effect from it kind of like drinking too much coffee. This effect usually wears off in about an hour however and I am able to go about my day. 100 mg is not nearly as pronounced for me but still I can definitely tell it is working and I do still get plenty done I am just not running at 110% like the 150 mg dose. I am very happy with this drug and my only regret is it is not more easily available like piracetam is. At this point I have no intention of removing it from my routine however I will try to only take it on a 4 days a week basis as I have learned you need a day off to rest every now and again. Something to be aware of if you plan on working out while on modafinil. The drug gives you the will power to push yourself and go the distance and it also gives you the stamina to do so. The bad part of this is you can very easily overdo it and injure yourself. You feel like you can do more under the influence of the drug and, as a result you push yourself harder than you should. You need to know what your body’s limits are and what you can and cannot do. I would not start working out while on modafinil. I would get into shape and then take it. Beginning a workout regiment is the easiest time to become injured, as your muscles aren’t in shape. It's a time when you need to take it easy and be patient.


Conclusion:

I am still working on piracetam. It will take me several more weeks before I am able to clearly define the parameters for maximum effectiveness. After I have done this I will move onto its 'cousins' aniracetam and oxiracetam. These will also take weeks or months, I predict, for me to be able to give a true report of their effectiveness and only then will I be able to clearly compare how each drug stacks up to one another. Since this is going to be a long drawn out process I have decided to post this preliminary report for those who are just beginning to try this new generation of drugs. I would much appreciate it if you would post your detailed experiments as well so I can properly compare how each drug effects different people. It is my goal to write a detailed analysis of all the nootropics eventually and give an effective guide to assist people undertaking this effort.
 
Very interesting topic vovin. Especially since I'm in search of nootropics myself. Bad thing is that in The Netherlands all the racetams are only available on subscription.

Due to this prescription only policy, the only nootropics I can get my hands on are herbs. The herbs I used up to now are: Rhodiola, Ginseng, Ginkgo biloba, Calamus, Hydrocotyle, Guarana and Ashwagandha. Thing is, if you take these for the first time you get loads of extra energy and concentration power for about 4 to 5 hours. After that it stops and the day after you are a little bit more tired then usual.

For a few months I had the feeling choline (or the lack of it) plays an important part in the fatigue the day after. Due to this thread of yours I went on a search for a reliable source of choline. I found it in the form of lecithin granules. The granules I found contains the following:
* choline-phospholipid -> 23%
* inositol-phospholipid -> 14%
* ethanolamine-phospholipid -> 21%
* other phospholipids -> 16%

It's fairly cheap, costing about 12,95 euro's for 500 grams. The recommended dose is 5-10 grams daily, taken just before a meal.

I just took my first dose of 5g, later this day I'll take another dose of 5g. I'll let you know how things work out.
 
Ginseng- I took ginseng for a few months a while ago. After the first two weeks I became noticably more motivated, almost to the point of impatience. There was a certain amount of unease that came with this. I started having euphoric moments, as if I'd had a third of an e. But I had trouble sleeping, so gave it up in the end because I started feeling run-down and didn't enjoy the impatient feeling.
Ginkgo biloba- I've been taking ginkgo biloba for a few months. It's either placebo or very slight. There is an improvement in my clarity of thought but I attribute this more to the motivation of DMT or the intellectual stimulation that it and the related philosophy gives me. It's hard to tell what's caused this feeling of increased intellect. But these are old news, sorry.

Personally I'm not up for any drug that has to be taken daily and I suspect there would be payback involved.
I'd be really interested to hear about any kind of short course or one-time dose that has been proven to improve intellect permanently. Good topic!
 
To replenish choline, I highly recommend GH3: http://www.cantron.com/html/Gh3.html

At first you may not feel anything from it, or it may even make you a little tired depending on where your body's at. If you keep with it and do a good program of 2-4 bottles (a bottle lasts 3 months, which dollar for dollar makes it one of the best supplements out there) it'll build up in your system, boost hormones, mood and energy, make you look years younger, and probably a lot more.

Eventually it does build up in the system (this usually happens after several bottles, though if someone has really good hormone production, it can happen much quicker) and it will feel like it's stimulating you a little too much. At that point you can either cut the dose or just stop it altogether.

It's a product that you really only use once in your life to get a real anti-aging, hormonal, neurotransmitter lift. Even if you take it years down the road, you're likely to hit that over-stimulated saturated point within even a few days. But if you need to be full-on, go-go-go for a few days or a week, you could even at that point and use it just as a stimulant.

For an overall B vitamin, this Stress Support by New Chapter is awesome: http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=5325&at=0

This'll blow any synethetic vitamin out of the water. That price is a real good deal, the health food store I work at sells it for the $65 retail price.

Taking probiotics regularly will help also, as they clean out the intestines, assist in digestion and improve your body's ability to create more B Vitamins in the intestinal track. Fermented foods are awesome. So is coconut water kefir. Supplemental probiotics are good too, especially in high doses. Bio-K is excellent.

: )
 
benzyme said:
I typically take lecithin with piracetam, but lately have been using aniracetam.
both are very good at clearing up mental blocks, the latter is even more noticeable, takes effect in about 20-30 minutes (too bad the half-life is about 2-3 hrs); been taking piracetam off and on for three years


FYI From what I have read on other forums lecithin are the worst choline you can take. Something to do with them not making it thru the blood brain barrier.
 
You could be right ben. I am basing my information on posts from the imminst forum. I should state that I have read so many contradicting reports and views on just about every single aspect of piracetam and choline that I couldnt tell you a single fact for sure that doesnt have someone stating the exact opposite as well. Some of this can be attributed to the fact that your neurochemistry will decide if and how well piracetam effects you and there is the fact that it is a subjective experience.

I myself would have thrown the towel in on piracetam as it seems to be too difficult to get down what to take, how much and how often but the effects I felt in the first 2 days was so profound that I just cant let it go.
 
I say don't give up.

here are a couple papers of the racetams

there must be a reason this stuff is still on the market after 35 years, besides being one of the most benign class of drugs. it really is quite safe. also, it acts on a wide variety of receptors; researchers still haven't pinpointed its exact action.
aniracetam is great in the morning, really dusts off the cobwebs. so does piracetam.
people have reported conflicting results, it really does come down to how a person is hardwired from a neurological standpoint.
 
I cant get the links to load. I dont plan on giving up just frustrating. at this point I am beginning to believe choline is not the only chemical piracetam is ustilizing in the system. It's the only thing that makes sense to me as I have tried just about every premutation I can thing of and still I am unable to get the intial results to repeat. I am currently in the process of taking 1 week off to let my system refresh and then I am gong to do a 10 day run everyday taking both the piracetam and choline and see if that has any effect.
 
The links are working now. I'll read over them when I get time later tonight. I still have allot of learning to do on this subject. I thought it would be easier to do than this but it appears that this is going to wind up being a deep study in neurochemistry.
 
Here's my report of a week long use of lecithin granules.

Preface
For a long time I've been using boosters like red bull and the likes and since a few months also herbs to up my concentration powers.

The herbs I normally use are: Rhodiola, Ginseng, Hydrocotyle, Calamus, Guarana and Ginkgo Biloba. The first (Rhodiola) in a dose of about 450mg of "dry extract PE 3% rosavin". The others I take from "Maya's focus mix" in a total dose of 450mg where I'm not sure what the percentages are of the different herbs. All herbs are from Maya-Ethnobotanicals.

The Lecithin I use comes from a company called "De tuinen" (the gardens). It's of the type "Lecithin granules 98%, Yellow 1, Topquality" and contains the following ingredients:
* choline-phospholipid -> 23%
* inositol-phospholipid -> 14%
* ethanolamine-phospholipid -> 21%
* other phospholipids -> 16%

Taking the Lecithin diary
Day 1. I took my first dose of lecithin of about 5g. It was in the evening and though it felt good to take it I didn't immediately felt something. Also the rest of the evening there was no noticeable reaction. No herbs were taken this day.

Day 2. Lecithin was taken in the morning, 5g dose first thing in the morning. I didn't take any herbs this day. No effect were felt.

Day 3. Lecithin was taken in the morning, 5g dose first thing in the morning. After breakfast I also took the 450mg Rhodialo and 450mg Maya's focus mix. This time I did feel something. I felt full of energy and and a bit like how a little kid feels on his birthday waiting for his presents: restless but joyful. My concentration level was high and only wore off about 5 to 6 hours later, slowly it faded away. Ok, this time it did work but I was curious about the next day, wuold I be tired like hell or...?

Day 4. Lecithin was taken in the morning, 5g dose first thing in the morning. No herbs were taken. I still felt energetic and my concentration was readily available, not on the same level as yesterday but still noticeable better as normal.

Day 5. Lecithin was taken in the morning, 5g dose first thing in the morning. No herbs were taken. Today I feel a bit better as day 4 even though I got to sleep late and me being very susceptible to sleep deprivation.

Day 6. I had a good night of sleep because I slept for about 12 hours. I took 5g of lecithin first thing after I woke up and felt great. Full of energy. In the evening, just before dinner I took another 5g of lecithin. In the evening I went to a small party and could quite well concentrate the whole evening through.

Day 7. In the morning I had a bit of a hangover due to the party the day before. I slept until 14:00 and took 5g of lecithin just after waking up. My hangover lasted till the evening were I felt my energy was regenerated and off I went add one article after another on the DMT-Nexus Wiki. My concentration was good although I was still a bit tired form the hangover.

Preliminary conclusions
Lecithin seems to work very well. It might be I had a choline deficiency for quite a while. One theory might be that I have this deficiency because I have to concentrate a lot for my work as a programmer?

Also adding herbs to the equation seemed to help a lot. The herbs worked much better with the lecithin then without it.

Next testing
This week I'm planning to continue taking lecithin as well as herbs on a daily base.
 
I'm thinking about going down the road of nootropics since the mind is the future of man kind, and not physical dominance like it has always been. I'm skeptical, but if no one was ever willing to test anything, everyone would always just be a skeptic and nothing would ever be discovered.
 
That's what I'm thinking about doing since it seems like the cheapest way to start. I'm interested in what can be done about the choline replenishment problem. The one I find most intruiging is modafinil since you take it once and it last for 14 hours. This means on week day I could wake up and take 100mg-150mg, go running to use the initial rush of energy, read, go to work and pull my 10 hour shift, and then come home and sleep because by then the effects would have worn off. The problem is that alot of the suppliers of modafinil seem to have dissapeared and it is muc pricier.
 
obliguhl said:
Seems like I should order some Lecithin.

You can always try, it's very cheap. I recently found a 300g package in the supermarket for less then 3 euro's. Remember though that the reason why it works so well for me could be because I had a choline deficiency for a long time (this is still a theory of mine!).

I'm also a person that needs 9 hours op sleep to be at my best.
 
I am litte upset that lechthin is working so well as I have read again and again that it's the least effective. I am seriously beginning to question every last thing I have read from others on this topic simply because for every aspect there is at least 2 contradicting opinions.

modafinil can still be bought and shipped to the US however right now there is only 1 price worthy supplier and they dont take a credit card. I took modafinil for a full 6 days straight and I am begining to be able to definately tell there is a tolerance effect as 150 mg is now working like a 100 mg dose. Modafinil is by far the most consistent so far but piracetam seem to be the most effective if you can get the proper choline/piracetam dosage down which is very difficlt to do since taking too much of either will result in negative effects so you cant always tell directly if your taking too much or too little.

Thanks for the log of your study traveler I can definately use others experiences in this to determine how each suppliment effects diffrent people.
 
My modafinil regimine would be mon-thurs because those are the days I work, and then there would be a three day dry spell to let the tolerance fade. If, I may ask Vovin, where do you get your piracetam from?
 
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