Hi there, and welcome.
I see that you have specifically opened an account to tell us this. Do you have any idea on the mechanism behind your claim? Or did you do any analytic analysis after heating and before inhaling?
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Smoking nb-DMT-OXALATE
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I see that you have specifically opened an account to tell us this. Do you have any idea on the mechanism behind your claim? Or did you do any analytic analysis after heating and before inhaling?
My 2 cents is that nothing is 100% safe. But I don't think your carbamate concerns are something worth worrying about. And this is why:
1. This is not a regular nitrogen. It's part of an indole group. You can call it "carabamate" if you really want to, but it's a completely different creature. Take a look at carbamate pesticides:
Non of them are linked directly to an aromatic nitrogen. Moreover, most of them are attached to very bad leaving groups (from either/both the nitrogen and the oxygen sides).
Compare it to NB-DMT:
The indole is a great leaving group. It's stabalized by resonance. The Boc group isn't a bad leaving group too. And together they're will gladly each go their seperate way when you heating them up with lighter.
But I'm digressing. The point is that you're comparing apples with oranges. The indole group makes it, for all practical purposes - not a carbamate. A carbamtes bonds to nitrogen, not to an indole.
NB-DMT might be harmful, but I don't see any particular reason to worry too much. Just to be careful as one always should.
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Nothing fancy really
I'm basing it mostly on experience. When heating it, there are two stages:
1. Bubbling and production of what looks like steam.
2. Creation of residue (assumingly DMT) that actually burns and vaporized.
My gut tells me that this gives a greater yield than having to mess with extractions and solvents.
I will wait for @Transform 's (or someone else who is knowledgeable) opinion on the chemistry, as that's not my field of knowledge. But I want to point out that this NB-DMT "changa" is not in line with the spirit of the Nexus, as I understand it.
"Just smoke this novel chemical together with MAOIs, it's probably fine" is not the kind of attitude I think should be cultivated here. Particularly when the only possible reason to do that is not wanting to extract DMT. If it were a substance with its own effects it would be different, but this is a legal workaround with unknown health implications. If you want to smoke that go ahead, it's not like it requires some special technique or instructions. But the Nexus is not a place to promote relying on some companies that sell this stuff, it's a place to promote self-reliance.
Nothing is 100% safe, but smoking your own DMT is considerably less risky than smoking that stuff, and even more once harmalas are included.
The company pushing this product is reckless, there is a big difference between selling a pure chemical and selling an imitation of changa. They of course don't care about the harm they could be causing to a lot of naive people, as long as it sells it's fine with them. It may be legal, but it's much less moral than someone illegally selling DMT or LSD.
"Just smoke this novel chemical together with MAOIs, it's probably fine" is not the kind of attitude I think should be cultivated here. Particularly when the only possible reason to do that is not wanting to extract DMT. If it were a substance with its own effects it would be different, but this is a legal workaround with unknown health implications. If you want to smoke that go ahead, it's not like it requires some special technique or instructions. But the Nexus is not a place to promote relying on some companies that sell this stuff, it's a place to promote self-reliance.
Nothing is 100% safe, but smoking your own DMT is considerably less risky than smoking that stuff, and even more once harmalas are included.
The company pushing this product is reckless, there is a big difference between selling a pure chemical and selling an imitation of changa. They of course don't care about the harm they could be causing to a lot of naive people, as long as it sells it's fine with them. It may be legal, but it's much less moral than someone illegally selling DMT or LSD.
I can agree with you on some level. I never was one to enjoy herbal mixes with chemicals. It gives you much less control. I prefer pure chemicals
Personally, I do enjoy researching new chemicals, and for me this was an opportunity to try DMT (or a prodrug to DMT), which I wanted to do for a long time.
I never tried pure DMT to compare it with, but judging it as what it is - it was an amazing experience for me.
I do think I'm one of the few that prefer 5-MeO-DMT though. NB-DMT was overwhelming and positive and full of joy.
But 5-MeO DMT get me to think more.
NB-DMT (in the very few times I tried it) felt like I'm sort of getting out of the limits of my body. Almost radiating. 5-MeO-DMT gets me deep inside my mind.
Anyways, as for the health implications of the pure powder - I see it as a level above research chemicals in the sense that I objectively believe it to be a pro drug to DMT. As for the by-products of the decomposition - I'm not worry about it more than I'm worried about the chemicals in e-ciguarates flavors. Honestly, human beings never meant to smoke anything.
That doesn't mean that it's safe. It hust means that I'm no worried. Big difference
You need a higher dose and will be able to drop the "almost"
Be careful if it's NB-DMT, though.You're in the right place if you ever want to. With a little bit of previous reading and some basic materials, you can go from DMT-less to DMT-haver in a space of hours. I encourage you to look into it, it's much easier than it seems at first.
Yes, I don't have anything against that, per se. I like that psychoactive chemicals are available, and would like for even more to be available. But I think there's a difference between making the pure chemical available and pushing it in a specific format meant for consumption, particularly when it's a chemical with an unknown risk profile. To make it worse, they give it a name (changa) that may easily confuse naive buyers. So I'm not talking against the buyers or users here, but against the sellers.
With respect to harm reduction, this is incredible irresponsible and extremely bad advice.
Please check out attitude page on Safe and constructive drug talk.
The Traveler
@ben10 Responses like this make me think you actually have a very limited understanding of what you are talking about, my advice is to not make the mistake of thinking that an LLM will give you anything true, especially when you clearly lack the ability to judge the quality of the response.
Please don’t put your health at risk and stop promoting potential harmful practices based on your beliefs and gut feeling.
Take care
I'll think of an experiment to support my claim.
IMO the right way would be to think of experiments to disprove it, and then see what happens.
I dislike mentioning it (because I think the arguments should speak for themselves). But I do have a bachelor degree in chemistry and extended experience in the lab.
In general, I prefer you to argue against my claims instead of calling me ignorant.
it's a matter of respect.
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I'm convinced that it decompose to DMT. The question is in what yield.
I never worked with drug test kits, but if anyone has a test for DMT, a lighter and NB-DMT - he can prove me wrong.
TLC might work:
1. only DMT
2. only NB-DMT
3. a mixture of both
4. NB-DMT after being slowly heated until there are no vapors or bubbles.
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You make the claim of “no need for fancy chemistry".
So let's start with you backing up that claim with a viable hypothesis.
The Traveler
Okay I apologize, I should have worded that differently, what triggered my response apart from the loose definitions, are the following things:
“Take a look at carbamate pesticides:“ sure,but it’s a big leap to say that it’s not harmful, why do you think that is so?
“The indole is a great leaving group.” Why do you think that? What about aromaticity? Do you mean in the pesticides or the N-boc-dmt?
“And together they're will gladly each go their seperate way when you heating them up with lighter.” Why do you think that this is a clean process when using a lighter?
How would this proof your claim, plus why would you need the DMT?
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Sometimes simplicity is your friend. But it's a valid point.You make the claim of “no need for fancy chemistry".
So let's start with you backing up that claim with a viable hypothesis.
The Traveler
Definitely a big leap. The purpose of this quote was to demonstrate why the compassion to carbamate pesticides is problematic. It can still be harmful.
It's all in compassion. But the carbonyl in the indole limits the ability of the nitrogen to share its electrons with the aromatic system. This is why the indole system is quite good in stabilizing negative charge (unlike wit substitued aromatic system where the negative chare can really interferes with the resonance). Also, the system is crowded. Both the indole ring and the carbonyl wants them electrons. And there is a well documented pathway for them to do so (see comment below).
Mostly experimental observations (it's sounds funny, but I did saw bubbles). The carbonyl is proned be elimanated as CO2 which is a one way reaction that drives to completion and usually induced by high tempratures. You just need to reach the activation energy.
With the right solvent the DMT and NB-DMT will travel different lengths. By having references spots for both DMT and NB-DMT - we can compare the traveling distance of the heated NB-DMT. If we will see 2 spots (or more due to impurities) in the sam distances as the reference spots - it will be a good sign that at least some of the NB-DMT decomposed to DMT. Another reference will be a mixture of DMT and NB-DMT, just because sometimes when having a mixture of compund it can affet their traveling distance compared to pure samples.
Again, these are my 2 cents. I might be wrong. But I do think there's no any particular reason to suspect NB-DMT should be toxic. I ger the safe approach of "it's dangerous until proven otherwise", but I also think people will be much more open to smoke some type of leaves instead (that also contains lots of chemicals the decompose to a bunch of stuff).
And I also don't think there should be any panic about it being similar to carbamate pesticide. It truely isn't.
There's always the off chance that it's extremely cancerous or something. It's okay to be cautious. But for me, it's a reasonable risk.
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You need a higher dose and will be able to drop the "almost"
You're in the right place if you ever want to. With a little bit of previous reading and some basic materials, you can go from DMT-less to DMT-haver in a space of hours. I encourage you to look into it, it's much easier than it seems at first.
Yes, I don't have anything against that, per se. I like that psychoactive chemicals are available, and would like for even more to be available. But I think there's a difference between making the pure chemical available and pushing it in a specific format meant for consumption, particularly when it's a chemical with an unknown risk profile. To make it worse, they give it a name (changa) that may easily confuse naive buyers. So I'm not talking against the buyers or users here, but against the sellers.
I'm waiting for the "call" or something like that. The last experience was great, but I also felt fufilled. And still am (not yet seen any particular entities).
The opportunity will come. I'm sure. I am curious if it'll indeed feels the same ad the NB-DMT or if I'll come to realize it's completly different.
With all online suppliers I'm never sure if they're great guys or bad ones. I don't think there's something morally wrong supplying the demand and giving people a choice.
specifically this supllier is relatively okay. In the sense thy don't sell drugs that I deem more harmful. But yes, the naming for the leafs is dishonnest.
You could also say pyrolysis, plus it says not much about what’s really happening.
Rf values for dmt could be found in literature plus this test says nothing about unwanted side reactions taking place, let alone holds any predictive power in the event of vaporization.
aizoaceous
Titanium Teammate
I do see reports in the literature that BOC-protected indoles and pyrroles are deprotected by simple thermolysis with good yield, for example this paper. Perhaps that guided the developers of this compound. It still doesn't seem like a great tradeoff to me though, to take the risks of an unknown compound at best in exchange for the benefits of a known compound. Absent legal prohibition, I don't think this compound would be sold. The doses I've seen reported also seem to imply incomplete (~50%) conversion, increasing concern about side products.
TLC would confirm at least partial conversion, but would probably say nothing about the side products. GC may result in that thermolysis in the injection port, but I can't find anything published. It's possible that more controlled thermolysis (e.g. on an oil bath) would result in better yield and fewer side products than simple smoking, but I again can't find anything published.
ETA: Here's the most relevant compound from the paper:
They deprotected by heating on an oil bath at 180-185 C under argon, for 20-30 min until the bubbling stopped. That seems like it could be improvised pretty readily. That's potentially safer and more efficient than smoking directly, especially if it's followed by crystallization and identity of the product is confirmed (melting point, TLC).
TLC would confirm at least partial conversion, but would probably say nothing about the side products. GC may result in that thermolysis in the injection port, but I can't find anything published. It's possible that more controlled thermolysis (e.g. on an oil bath) would result in better yield and fewer side products than simple smoking, but I again can't find anything published.
ETA: Here's the most relevant compound from the paper:
They deprotected by heating on an oil bath at 180-185 C under argon, for 20-30 min until the bubbling stopped. That seems like it could be improvised pretty readily. That's potentially safer and more efficient than smoking directly, especially if it's followed by crystallization and identity of the product is confirmed (melting point, TLC).
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Pyrolysis doesn't explain the bubbles. Yes, CO2 can be created from oxygen in the air (although it probably won't cause bubbling) , and maybe nitrogen gas, and unlikely cyanide. But only in small amounts and probably at the late stages of the pyrolysis (which you won't reach, because the early pyrolysis products will already evaporate). But yes - this isn't a proof.
The thing that I might failed to explain (although I did made sure to mention), is that I don't have a proof for anything. I only have my observations, my knowledge (which I shared) and my scientific intuition.
As for the TLC - it's a bad practice to rely on Rf values from the literature. They can vary considerably depending on lots of factors (type of plate, plate manufacturer, container and more...). Also, a lot of impurities (as a result of side reactions) will be shown in the TLC if they're still aromatic (which they probably are). This is in part the reason for the DMT+NBDMT reference spot. In general, this test isn't perfect - but it does give some clues.
Unless you have access to quite expensive equipment, you'll always have some unsolved doubts.
I registered with bogus password and email. I didn't expect to stay for very long. Glad I did though.
Yesss. A validation that my claim have merit.
Not a proof. Not the exact same conditions obviously. But at least something
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