Social Anxiety

[obliguhl]

q21q21, I have started the training program you suggested. It makes sense so far and seems to have a similiar approach as that book about mood therapy that was recommended to me.

What you, fractal & house are essentially saying is: Be yourself, then you may find the strength you are looking for. But that "me" seems to be incapable of even sustaining relationships. I've severed ties with 4 friends in the last 4 years or so...and some i have known since childhood. It hurt, but it hurt more to be dissapointed by them. So what can you do?

Now everything seems to collapse. Last year i have had a huge fallout with the social group i participated in and lost contact to half a dozen of people. Then, connections to nexians started to get weaker, leading to my chat departure (for now). Colleagues insult and harass me. Today, a big fight started between my best friend and me, which could very well jeopardize our friendship. That would be Friend # 5.

I would love to "not give a fuck" - but people already say im cold, and that i'm at fault for provocing conflicts. So maybe they're right. Still, I feel completely different. I feel like someone in desperate need for love and comfort.

But then, im too far away from consensus reality and common communication patterns, or so it seems.

I really have thought about living a life as a hermit somewhere, or becoming a buddhist monk.

In the End, the mystery of life is the only comforting thing left.

 

[Lavos]

I don't get it, how things are so bad if you had a friend to get in a fight with today. I'm shunned by my cousins my age even. I don't have co-workers. My choice, not my choice, ?? idk whatever. I WISH I had a friend that I cared enough about to lament over a fight. I tried sending a message to my old MS and HS buddy about 6 months ago, motherfucker didn't even write back. Can't remember how long it's been since I had someones number I could call and chill with. I had a neighbor who used to blaze with me in 2007-8. He got to where he'd text on his phone all the time and I found it annoying as shit.

I'm NOT trying to say 'waaah, my anxiety is obviously worse then yours' BS. I just mean, there's people in worse social conditions. Like complaining about your house when you got one at least.

Talk to yourself more if no one is saying anything interesting. I cope by being friendly to everyone I come across (on a good day of course). I might have a 5 minute conversation and walk with an old Haitian lady out of nowhere, that beats calling up so and so for a distraction from my pain.

On the other hand, I can see how a quick falling away from a lot of social activity could really hurt. I don't know man, get a cat a dog and a garden. Try not to feel 'in need' too much, desperate feelings no good.

Isolation was too hard for me, even if I do get tired of everyone, I NEED something they have, surprises for one.

 

[soulfood]

I would love to "not give a fuck" - but people already say im cold, and that i'm at fault for provocing conflicts.

This attitude only seems to come through here when you're talking about yourself. Otherwise, you certainly don't seem cold to me.

Not give a fuck is something that some people can do and others can't. I myself am one that can't. It's my best quality Even towards those that don't give a fuck about me and I can even rationalise that to those who think I shouldn't. They are short of vision and selfish.

I have a couple of good friends...well one. Mainly due to my own anxiety that I think I'm finally getting a grip on after 26 years, but also I'm a magnet for the emotionally fucked! These people seem to think I'm the greatest thing in the world for a month or two and the feeling's mutual, then they get scared and back away when I try make them realise what's 'wrong' with them or until the drawing power of my personality becomes quite obvious to them and they're not used to feeling comfortable.

I believe to an extent I can fix people or at least get them on the path to fixing themselves. This seems to be what I think are my good intentions pushing them away. I don't think I should stop with my good intentions, but have more thought towards fine tuning them.

This is a strange example of an obscure quality and so far I have a zero success rate then it's not my quality you say? Well I think it is! I will persist!

Anyways to the point... You come across as a guy who can't appreciate his own quality. You're obviously a very warm and inteligent guy, but you've been stuck in an anxious state for so long that you've started to believe the irrational about yourself or maybe even always did.

Remember your quality and persist!

If you don't remember and demonstrate to others what it is, then no one else will know it exists...

and it does!

Autism is the only excuse.

P.S.

You've made it pretty obvious that becoming a hermit is not an option as you obviously want to be closer to people. Rightly so. People are soooooooooo cool!

Giving up won't last five minutes.

 

[q21q21]

q21q21, I have started the training program you suggested. It makes sense so far and seems to have a similiar approach as that book about mood therapy that was recommended to me.

What you, fractal & house are essentially saying is: Be yourself, then you may find the strength you are looking for. But that "me" seems to be incapable of even sustaining relationships. I've severed ties with 4 friends in the last 4 years or so...and some i have known since childhood. It hurt, but it hurt more to be dissapointed by them. So what can you do?

Now everything seems to collapse. Last year i have had a huge fallout with the social group i participated in and lost contact to half a dozen of people. Then, connections to nexians started to get weaker, leading to my chat departure (for now). Colleagues insult and harass me. Today, a big fight started between my best friend and me, which could very well jeopardize our friendship. That would be Friend # 5.

I would love to "not give a fuck" - but people already say im cold, and that i'm at fault for provocing conflicts. So maybe they're right. Still, I feel completely different. I feel like someone in desperate need for love and comfort.

But then, im too far away from consensus reality and common communication patterns, or so it seems.

I really have thought about living a life as a hermit somewhere, or becoming a buddhist monk.

In the End, the mystery of life is the only comforting thing left.

I have been in that place many times. I've been fired from 5 jobs trying to just work my best because I was weird.
What REALLY REALLY REALLY helped... and continues to help me is working with kids. I experience ZERO, ZIP, NO anxiety at all and I have observer the basics of social interations.

It is literally like night and day. I have had complaints that I am "too close" with the kids so some simple rules like;
always talk to the parents and one thing I say that ALWAYS gets a good response and is perfect if co-workers/volunteers complain is:
"Your son/daughter is really clingy, I usually just let them sit on my lap or hang on me is that okay?"
they will 100% say something like "Of course, I just hope they are not too much of a hassle for you!"
and just never initiate anything non-playful with them, they WILL hug you, lean on you, hold your hand and sit on your lap themselves.

It is just so amazing that I smile every day I see a kid again which I don't with adults. When I say stupid things or make mistakes I don't care at all and NEVER dwell on them like with adults. I think of amazing original ideas and feel I am the best me ever with them without any anxiety hindering me. I even miss kids when they leave which I never do with adults, not even my mother.

One thing that is good is that you get a criminal record check any time you work or volunteer with children so they know you are not some sick pedophile just that you love being with kids anxiety free.

I hope the tapes will help me get some place where I can be like that with adults. Personally I have 1 friend that I am confortable with talking about anything, one of my brothers and my mum. Compared to an outgoing kid I've known for 2 hours I'd say I am 70%, 65% and 80% as comfortable with them (respectively in order mentioned)
Everybody other adult I know is just someone who I know their name but have no interest in talking to, learning about or anything whether I am feeling anxious or not.

So ya, I feel you man and I really recommend volunteering with somewhere with kids, I'm helping at a summer camp right now and having a blast every single day!

 

[cker]

I feel for all who struggle with social interaction. I've got some of this 'bug' myself. I'll mention a few easy ideas:

a) After meeting someone, if you quickly find you like them, there's a very good chance they like you as well. This really works.

b) People get much of their information about you from your non-verbal cues. I listen to what people say when they speak, but many people don't. They form impressions from facial expressions and body language. A smile is comforting to others. If you smile, you can say just about anything to anyone and it will work.

Trust yourself a little. There's not much to lose.

 

[obliguhl]

Thank you all for the replies, your ongoing support is nothing short of fabolous!

Lavos, i'm sorry to hear about your condition. The reason i still know two or three people is, that I'm in college and i did well the first half year (t my surprise), but it has fallen appart mostly.

On the other hand, I can see how a quick falling away from a lot of social activity could really hurt.

Well, not a lot of social activity, really. I know that life is extremely different, if you're having a complete social net. At least that's my insight from short times, were i felt that i was walking into that direction.

I might have a 5 minute conversation and walk with an old Haitian lady out of nowhere

Expecially people from the streets are good to talk to. They are often friendly, they approach you. Sure, some want money, but i've learned that this is in most cases just their way of establishing contact. A lot can be learned from these people as they went through pretty extreme experiences.

Souldfood

Well, I won't push you away. The thing is, that it can hurt to have someone trying to help you, because it means, that there must be something wrong. Many people try to clinge to the picture of themselves as totally healthy individuals. Especially if they are engulfed in consumerism, and they're following the rules step-by step...while still feeling like shit.

Anyways to the point... You come across as a guy who can't appreciate his own quality. You're obviously a very warm and inteligent guy, but you've been stuck in an anxious state for so long that you've started to believe the irrational about yourself or maybe even always did.

Thank you, you are propably right..but if i'm showing them the opposite, i ca only be percieved as cold. And perhaps sometimes i am, sub consciously, because I'm so deeply dissapointed with how it all went...

Q21Q21

Everybody other adult I know is just someone who I know their name but have no interest in talking to, learning about or anything whether I am feeling anxious or not.

That's another problem. I did notice, that my anxiety drops to very low levels, given the right person comes along. But that almost never happens. You know, the person you instantly feel a connection with.

About Kids: Yes, they are easy to deal with, open, most of the time in a good, cheerful mood. They like me and i would often play with the kids of my aunts..they appreciate to the point they can't understand why someone would spend so much time with them. But to me, there a regular humans, just at a different point in their life. The thing is, one of my aunts seem to suspect me to be a pedophile, even though she never said it..she did some weird things like shouting "WHAT ARE YOU DOIN IS EVERYTHING ALRIGHT". She's just a bit overprotective. But there is a culture against male involvment with kids here. Once a little girl talked to me in public and i certainly answered, why would't' I! Then, I was told by her shouting mother to remove myself from the child (Piss off!!!). In another situation, I was in a good mood on public transport. A conncept most people can't grasp. So i was starring and smiling. A little girl saw my smile and looked at me....the next thing i hear is a furious mother screaming for the whole cabin to hear:

"DON'T LOOK AT HER THIS WAY!!!!" , basicaly announcing me as a pedophile and possible rapist to 50 people. But i got out alive.

So it's very dangerous to work with them and so i kinda get annoyed by kids these days.
But its a great suggestion.

cker,
I smile all the time while communicating with other people

 

[rOm]

HAHahaa Obli, it's true many poeple are suspiscious if you go on well with kids. It better to offer the minimum contact in public so paranoia do'nt grow about you.
Sad but real society thing.

 

[obliguhl]

Well, ignoring a child talking to you is child abuse in my eyes and that i dont want to take part in. This perhaps seems a little extremist for some, but i really mean it. A child needs to grow up in a socially comforting and nourishing environment and denying them this, is violent in my opinion.

 

[Lavos]

Lavos, i'm sorry to hear about your condition. The reason i still know two or three people is, that I'm in college and i did well the first half year (t my surprise), but it has fallen appart mostly.

No it's ok, I'm sorry if my post sounded a little harsh. Later I realized just how much I'm bothered by the fact that I don't have a bigger social net, but I've learned that life will put you in pain when you are in the wrong position for yourself. The pain is the clue for you to move out of the situation and into a new one, imo.

Expecially people from the streets are good to talk to. They are often friendly, they approach you. Sure, some want money, but i've learned that this is in most cases just their way of establishing contact. A lot can be learned from these people as they went through pretty extreme experiences.

Often it is easy to make someone on the streets smile by giving them a little of your time and interest, so it's a two part play.

I'm a huge kid freak too. We have as much to learn from them as they do from us. They are shorted on a lot of fun in learning by our notions of what makes a kid smart, and there's a lot of BS fed to them. I feel great playing with them, but, as you said Obliguhl, people are so over protective right now. I feel like I'm going to piss someone off if I look at their little girl more than 1 second. Boys a little more leeway, but yea, strangers are bad M'kay?

Well, ignoring a child talking to you is child abuse in my eyes and that i dont want to take part in. This perhaps seems a little extremist for some, but i really mean it. A child needs to grow up in a socially comforting and nourishing environment and denying them this, is violent in my opinion.

I like your stance man. I fully agree, we do so much soft killing these days.

I was out yesterday, around 9pm watching the kids play in the street, and I was overwhelmed with a bit of frustration. I don't like the word supervision, but these kids need some older folks watching them a bit to guide them away from their troubling BS. They started hollering at each other, and I was about to go jump in when I realized of the 14 or so kids that regularly play out there, NONE EVER have parents hanging outside to view and ensure they are 'decent'. (excepting 5 minutes here and there coming and going or yelling at their kid) No they are just pushed out like animals, come in before dark, im watching TV. It was a frustrating feeling, thinking of 5-13 year olds growing up so much without some wiser, calmer, voice to interject and point out fallacies and mishaps.

Don't you love the people that take all the bullshit, never think about it, and wonder why they feel like shit, meanwhile trying to tell everyone else how to go about things. It's a joke, lol.

You sound tough and smart enough. Take it easy. Breathe very very deep and like the feeling. Find feel good feelings everywhere and see peoples ignorance as another obstacle in a very complex maze with possibly no end.

My good qualities are often ignored in this society also. I hope to move someone where family value and personal freedom mean a bit more, not sure if there will be many places like that for long? I hear in central america the parents love congregating to watch and encourage the kids.

One more thing, was reading some I Ching the other day. Something around Exhausting. Basically said when one falls into darkness that goes into further darkness, this is exhausting. The first thing to be done when one comes into this position is to Establish a positive state of mind (as in it's not there on it's own). This small idea has infected me, and I'm banishing my downer voice. Every problem I have is now started from the ground, with a focus on being positive about the whole deal.

 

[q21q21]

Everybody other adult I know is just someone who I know their name but have no interest in talking to, learning about or anything whether I am feeling anxious or not.

That's another problem. I did notice, that my anxiety drops to very low levels, given the right person comes along. But that almost never happens. You know, the person you instantly feel a connection with.

About Kids: Yes, they are easy to deal with, open, most of the time in a good, cheerful mood. They like me and i would often play with the kids of my aunts..they appreciate to the point they can't understand why someone would spend so much time with them. But to me, there a regular humans, just at a different point in their life. The thing is, one of my aunts seem to suspect me to be a pedophile, even though she never said it..she did some weird things like shouting "WHAT ARE YOU DOIN IS EVERYTHING ALRIGHT". She's just a bit overprotective. But there is a culture against male involvment with kids here. Once a little girl talked to me in public and i certainly answered, why would't' I! Then, I was told by her shouting mother to remove myself from the child (Piss off!!!). In another situation, I was in a good mood on public transport. A conncept most people can't grasp. So i was starring and smiling. A little girl saw my smile and looked at me....the next thing i hear is a furious mother screaming for the whole cabin to hear:

"DON'T LOOK AT HER THIS WAY!!!!" , basicaly announcing me as a pedophile and possible rapist to 50 people. But i got out alive.

So it's very dangerous to work with them and so i kinda get annoyed by kids these days.
But its a great suggestion.

cker,
I smile all the time while communicating with other people

I know the feeling. As much as I love to work with kids and my job is to work with kids I am still very apprehensive to talk or even be close to kids in a park or other public place. Many times I have told them I am a gymnastics coach but I still see them staring and sometimes pulling their child back when they go more than 5 feet away from them.
Most often I don't bother at all.

Volunteering at a place is TOTALLY different. You are supposed to entertain and play with the kids as part of your job description and the more you occupy them, the less the other people have to do and they NEVER mind it at all.
I have been working with kids for over 3 years so I can understand that you would have apprehension especially from past experiences but I remember 2 weeks into my first job I helped out at a "Fun Night" which was 5 hours in a gymnastics gym with 20 or so kids and it was the most fun I have had for YEARS. Also after it was done the other coaches complimented me on how good I was with the kids.

So once again, I won't talk to or play with kids in public at all. There is WAY too much of a child abducter / pedophile / murderer stigma around adults talking to children in random public places.

 

[Entheojen]

To the OP:

First time I've read this thread, and haven't read through it in any detail, but I know a girl who was very shy and getting a job working with the general public was THE ticket to overcoming her social awkwardness and now she is a very approachable and friendly girl. Don't worry though, you will eventually grow to hate the general public :twisted:

 

[q21q21]

*deleted* accidentally posted instead of edited.

 

[tango]

Exposure therapy done randomly can indeed be counter-productive. However, if you go through certain procedures meant to highly increase your chances of a rewarding social encounter, such small successes can become the building stones of your self-esteem/ confidence.

One way to go would be finding something that helps shift your perspective. This inspirational route may not have long lasting effects, but if it gets you motivated enough to go out there and 'conquer' a particular event (party etc), then hopefully you'll end up with a number of small successes, which add up and boost your confidence.

Another route would be the chemical confidence booster. This forum is frequented by smart people, so it goes without saying that one should approach this very carefully. A stimulant and a sedative (of the pharma variety) taken together may quickly and effectively get rid of your social anxiety for a few hours. While this certainly seems like a poor band-aid solution, just knowing that it's available may help one enormously. Also, in a situation where you have just one shot to make a good impression, failure and embarrassment would most likely further damage your self-esteem, while success will probably boost it.

 

[obliguhl]

Hey tango,
Just happened to see your post in my thread, thanks!!

Exposure therapy done randomly can indeed be counter-productive.

Most of the time i have to go through anxious moments is if i "have to" performing the most basic tasks such as going to the doctors office. Feeling anxious in these situations contributes to my overall state because it feels so humiliating to to feel this way in regular situations. So going through them is ALWAYS a failure if i feel any anxiety at all.

Also, in a situation where you have just one shot to make a good impression, failure and embarrassment would most likely further damage your self-esteem, while success will probably boost it.

To be honest, i have thought about it and i'd do it in a heartbeat if i had the ressources. The world does not "wait" for me , it is not considerate of me. It's a harsh truth, but understandable.

Meanwhile, i was able to celebrate great social success volunteering at a gathering of some sort. So this can work, but it was kinda short lived and did not really transfer into everyday life. IT feels like one needs to keep busy with social successes, the more you are anxious.....but then the more you are anxious, the harder it is to produce these successes

...so i don't really know how to tackle the problem without a "bandaid".

Cactus really helps, but it's too expensive to take regularly. Perhaps i'll try kanna agains. This one was promising. Any other suggestions? I'm again in a period of my life with a lot of worry, trouble sleeping and dark, dark dreams and compulsive thoughts about bad stuff.