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"Soy boy" - a case study of how the meat and dairy industries weaponized a meme for profit

Nydex

One With The Trees
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Hello friends,

As part of my deepening dedication to the health journey, I have started looking into ways of casting a wider net in terms of my protein intake. Part of that research led me directly to soy. And the more I dug, the more something unsettling stood out, to the point where I felt compelled to share my thoughts with you all.

Disclaimer 1: a lot of the information in this post is my own personal stance, and I might be wrong on some things. You're not only welcome, but encouraged to correct me wherever you feel I'm wrong and we can have a nice, healthy discussion about it.

Disclaimer 2: this post will touch on specific political aspects that are relevant to the topic in a historical context, but in no way does it incentivize or invite political discussion or portrays my personal political stance to any degree. Let's keep the discussion politics-free.

The origin of the "soy boy" meme

The term "soy boy" first appeared in early 2017 on 4chan. Therefrom, it quickly spread to other online platforms, including Reddit and Twitter, gaining significant traction among right-wing internet users. This term is not an isolated slur but forms part of a broader lexicon of insults, such as "snowflake," "cuck," "nu-male," and "low-T" (low testosterone), all of which are designed to belittle men who are perceived to deviate from traditional masculinity. The consistent application of this meme to "liberal vegans" demonstrates its function beyond a simple insult; it serves as a tool for ideological othering and delegitimization. This pattern of behavior suggests a deliberate attempt to frame plant-based eating as part of a broader "culture war," thereby associating dietary choices with perceived political and gender weakness.

The term's core premise rests on the scientifically debunked myth that consuming soy products, due to their phytoestrogen content, lowers testosterone levels and causes feminizing effects in men, such as gynecomastia, erectyle dysfunction, decreased sperm vitality, and others. In this post, I want to explore how this meme might not just be an isolated cultural phenomenon, but a component of broader, strategically orchestrated misinformation campaigns by the meat and dairy industries.

These industries, facing declining sales and increasing competition from plant-based alternatives, employed extensive lobbying and social media tactics to discredit plant-based diets, often by exploiting and reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes and playing off of people's insecurities. Scientific consensus overwhelmingly seems to refute the health claims underpinning the "soy boy" meme, yet its persistent propagation might highlight a deliberate effort to influence consumer perception and protect market share, mirroring historical disinformation strategies seen in other industries.

The Core Premise

The insult is explicitly based on the false claim that soy's phytoestrogens "feminize" men. This assertion often misrepresents or exaggerates findings from early animal studies, which frequently employed extremely high doses of isoflavones that are absolutely not comparable to typical human consumption patterns. The term directly links soy consumption to physical changes like gynecomastia (enlargement of male breasts) and decreased libido, despite an overwhelming lack of scientific evidence supporting these effects in humans. The persistence of this narrative, even in the face of robust scientific refutation, indicates a deliberate propagation of falsehoods where the accuracy of information is secondary to the desired social and economic outcome.

Scientific Consensus: Debunking the Soy Myths

The negative narratives surrounding soy are largely unsupported by robust human scientific research. A substantial body of evidence consistently debunks these myths, highlighting soy's nutritional benefits and neutral or even protective effects on health. The strong, consistent scientific evidence stands in stark contrast to the enduring myth, indicating that the myth is not sustained by scientific uncertainty but by external, non-scientific forces.

Soy and Male Hormones

Meta-analyses of numerous clinical studies consistently demonstrate no significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on reproductive hormones in men. This includes total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), estradiol (E2), estrone (E1), and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). These findings remain consistent regardless of the isoflavone dose or the duration of the study. The claim that soy causes gynecomastia is largely based on a single, isolated case report from 2008. This case involved an individual consuming extremely high, atypical amounts of soy (specifically, 3 quarts of soy milk per day), and the reported effects were reversed upon discontinuation of soy intake. This single case received disproportionate media attention, significantly contributing to the perpetuation of the myth.

A pilot study further indicated that soy milk and dairy milk had "virtually identical effects on male hormone levels after weightlifting," suggesting no negative impact on muscle gains or hormonal health for athletes. While some animal studies have shown endocrine disruption, these results are not directly applicable to humans due to fundamental metabolic differences between species and the much higher doses of isoflavones typically used in such experiments.

The reliance on outdated or misinterpreted animal studies to fuel anti-soy narratives is a recurring pattern, representing a tactic of selectively using scientific fragments out of context to create a desired narrative, even if scientifically unsound. The fact that a single, extreme case could generate a flurry of media coverage and persist as a myth for almost two decades demonstrates how effectively sensationalized, unrepresentative data can be amplified to serve a disinformation agenda, overshadowing comprehensive scientific reviews.

Soy and Other Health Concerns

Beyond male hormonal effects, there are a few other common negative claims about soy which happen to be also be largely unsubstantiated according to human research:
  • Breast Cancer: Research across various populations indicates that consuming soy foods may either lower the risk of breast cancer or have a neutral effect. Soy isoflavones can bind to estrogen receptors, potentially blocking the action of more potent natural estrogens or acting as tumor suppressors. Human studies, particularly in Asian populations with historically high lifelong soy intake, consistently show protective or neutral effects, directly contradicting earlier animal studies that used high doses and involved different metabolic responses.

  • Prostate Cancer: Epidemiological studies and meta-analyses suggest that regular soy consumption is associated with a lower risk of prostate cancer. Soy isoflavones have been shown to accumulate in prostatic tissue, where they may exert protective physiological effects.

  • Thyroid Function: Current research indicates that moderate soy consumption generally has little to no effect on overall thyroid function in humans. Early concerns about soy being a "goitrogen" (a substance that can disrupt the production of thyroid hormones) were primarily based on animal and laboratory studies. However, it is important to note that soy may interfere with the absorption of thyroid medications, and excessive consumption might lead to a slight, typically not clinically significant, rise in thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) levels in some individuals, particularly women, especially if they are iodine deficient.

  • Nutritional Deficiencies: Claims that soy causes mineral deficiencies due to phytic acid are largely unfounded. In fact, soy often contains lower levels of phytic acid than many other grains or legumes.

The Nutritional Profile of Soy

Beyond debunking the negative myths, scientific evidence consistently highlights the robust nutritional benefits of soy. Soybeans are recognized as a complete protein source, containing all nine EAAs (essential amino acids) necessary for human health. Its protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score (PDCAAS) is ~0.98, which is comparable to that of high-quality animal proteins like meat and dairy, and just under whey protein which has the highest possible PDCAAS score of 1.00

Soy is also a rich source of dietary fiber, healthy polyunsaturated fats, and a variety of essential nutrients, including potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron, and various antioxidants. Documented health benefits include reducing the risk of coronary heart disease by lowering LDL cholesterol, alleviating menopausal symptoms, improving bone health, and supporting gut health. The FDA has also historically recognized soy protein's health benefits.

Environmental impact of soy


Soy-based products, particularly minimally processed varieties, consistently demonstrate substantially lower environmental footprints across key indicators, including GHG (greenhouse gas) emissions, land use, water consumption, water pollution, and biodiversity loss, when compared to conventional meat and dairy products.
  • Soy-based meat alternatives exhibit an environmental impact that is 4 to 20 times lower than that of beef, and notably lower than chicken meat.

  • Soy-based beverages (soy drink) demonstrate an environmental impact that is 4 to 50 times lower than cow milk across all categories.

  • Overall, plant-based meat products show 81% - 99.9% lower environmental impacts than conventional beef, 60% - 97% lower than pork, and 10% - 94% lower than chicken across 18 environmental categories.

  • Crucial Role of Soy in Animal Feed: A substantial proportion of global soy production (77% globally, 70% in the U.S.) is allocated to livestock feed. This means that the consumption of meat and dairy products indirectly drives a significant portion of soy-related environmental impacts, including deforestation. Consequently, reducing the intake of meat and dairy offers a dual benefit: it directly lowers the footprint of animal agriculture and simultaneously mitigates the environmental burden associated with soy cultivation for feed.

Processing nuances

Within soy-based alternatives, minimally processed products such as cooked soybeans, tofu, tempeh, and soy drink generally exhibit a lower environmental impact compared to more highly processed options like soy-based meat analogues. Despite the energy and resource demands of extensive processing, the raw materials themselves often contribute significantly - exceeding 50% in some environmental impact categories - to the overall footprint of processed soy-based alternatives. However, processing can become a more relevant factor for specific impacts such as Cumulative Energy Demand (CED), Water Scarcity Potential, and Freshwater Eutrophication Potential.

Crucially, even with higher levels of processing, the overall environmental impact of processed plant-based alternatives remains substantially lower than that of their animal-based counterparts. This highlights that while processing increases the environmental footprint of plant-based products, this increase is generally minor compared to the inherent environmental burden associated with animal agriculture. The environmental impact is primarily driven by the agricultural stage of raw material production, rather than solely by subsequent manufacturing. This means that while optimizing processing methods is valuable, it does not negate the overarching environmental benefits of choosing plant-based over animal-based foods.

"Soy Boy" as an Industry Weapon

The "soy boy" meme is not merely a cultural byproduct but functions as a strategic weapon within the broader disinformation campaigns waged by the meat and dairy industries. Its propagation directly serves the financial and ideological interests of these industries by discrediting plant-based alternatives and reinforcing traditional consumption patterns.

Directly Linking the Meme's Propagation to Industry Strategic Interests

The false narrative directly aligns with the meat industry's long-standing marketing strategy of associating meat consumption with masculinity, strength, and virility. The dairy industry's propaganda is explicitly cited as leading consumers to believe soy is "deleterious to human health," specifically targeting men with fears about lowered testosterone, athletic and sexual performance, and fertility. These claims directly mirror the core assertions of the "soy boy" myth. The consistent and widespread dissemination of misinformation on social media by uncredentialed individuals, coupled with myths peddled by the dairy industry, seems to be a key driver of public confusion regarding soy, directly benefiting the animal agriculture industry.

This pattern of behavior suggests that the meme's primary function is to serve as a cultural proxy for the economic interests of the meat and dairy industries. By framing plant-based eating as "unmanly", these industries attempt to make it socially undesirable, thereby protecting their market share. This reveals a sophisticated strategy where cultural narratives are weaponized to achieve commercial objectives.

The examples of how this weaponization looks like are numerous and involve many large organizations (e.g. CLEAR Center) as well as political actors, whose names I will omit for obvious reasons, as well as targeted campaigns and social media attacks (e.g. #yes2meat, "Wood Milk" commercial, the $5 "methylcellulose" ad, Wester A. Price Foundation's highly biased anti-soy campaigns, etc).

Drawing Parallels with Historical Misinformation Campaigns

The animal agriculture industry's "disinformation war" employs tactics explicitly compared to those of the tobacco and fossil fuel lobbies. These tactics include denying, derailing, delaying, and deflecting meaningful discussions about their environmental and health impacts. Public relations firms, such as Red Flag, which orchestrated campaigns to discredit the EAT-Lancet report, explicitly turned scientific discussions into "culture war issues".

This tactic of polarizing public discourse is a hallmark of historical industry-funded disinformation. The consistent debunking of soy myths by scientific bodies, contrasted by the continued perpetuation of these myths, indicates that the goal is not to inform but to create doubt and fear.

This suggests that for industries facing disruption, actively spreading misinformation is a cost-effective and powerful way to slow the adoption of alternatives and protect existing revenue streams, thereby acting as a market defense mechanism.

How the Meme Leverages and Reinforces Traditional Gender Stereotypes

The "sexual politics of meat" framework elucidates how consumption of meat can function as a marker that legitimates the gender binary system, where "real men" consume meat, and men who opt for plant-based alternatives are emasculated or feminized. The "soy boy" meme is a direct manifestation of this framework, leveraging societal anxieties around gender identity. Anti-trans political advertisements, funded by meat industry trade groups, further exemplify this by comparing transgender people to cattle and using meat metaphors to dehumanize them, thereby reinforcing rigid gender norms and linking meat consumption to masculine dominance and gender conformity.

This can serve as an example of how the industry exploits social anxieties around gender fluidity to promote its products. The persistence of the meme, despite its scientific baselessness, underscores its power in tapping into and reinforcing deeply ingrained societal stereotypes about masculinity and femininity, effectively transforming dietary choices into a battleground for identity. This active exploitation and perpetuation of harmful gender stereotypes serves to influence consumer behavior, selling an identity tied to specific food choices and leveraging societal pressures and insecurities to maintain consumption patterns.

Conclusion

I fear this post might get misinterpreted as an attempt from my side to change your dietary choices and make you consume something you don't necessarily want or need to consume. This was not the point. The main purpose is to highlight how something that seems innocent when observed superficially might actually carry significant implications and reveal a much deeper narrative of deliberate misinformation and manipulation of public choices related to health.

Furthermore, the point is to make one think about the extent to which these predatory tactics are employed in other areas of our lives without us even noticing. Media has always been a powerful tool for controlling public opinion. Unfortunately, its core identity of informing people has long been abandoned for more profitable, albeit less honorable, tactics.

The "soy boy" meme is definitely not the first time massive, lucrative industries have manipulated the public for their own gain. And it's unfortunately not going to be the last time either. It is our duty as intelligent, responsible citizens of the world to recognize these devious patterns and be vigilant in the face of an ever more complex information landscape.

My takeaway

As a result of this research now I feel better equipped to take informed decisions about my diet that work in favor of my health, not against it. As such, I will introduce more soy-based products into my diet, and will also start taking 30 grams of soy protein isolate in addition to the 30 grams of whey protein isolate I take daily. I have already reaped massive benefits from increased protein consumption, so I expect things to get even better when I introduce a complete nutritional element such as soy into my diet. I shall report with my findings as time goes on.

If you made it that far, thank you for taking the time - I appreciate your decision to be informed. And if you think I'm wrong about anything of the above - please share your perspective and let's talk about it.

With love,
Nydex
 
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These industries, facing declining sales and increasing competition from plant-based alternatives, employed extensive lobbying and social media tactics to discredit plant-based diets, often by exploiting and reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes and playing off of people's insecurities.
This is interesting, could you please provide some links or sources?

When I've investigated this subject years ago, I came to a conclusion that hormonal dysbalance caused by soy protein products is most likely very exaggerated, but nonetheless I bought some kind of soy protein isolate with isoflavones removed. However, my main issue with soy protein was its awful taste :sick:, so I stopped its use entirely.
 
Interesting write-up; you obviously put some thought and effort into this. Thanks for sharing.

It's funny though; we're so conditioned to recoil at the claim of conspiracy, I can't help but imagine you looking like this during your research, lol.

Charlies-Pepe-Silvia-conspiracy-in-Its-Always-Sunny.jpg


Edit: Just to clarify, I don't doubt the veracity of the claim. I think the food industry in general has probably played some very dirty games throughout the years.
 
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This is interesting, could you please provide some links or sources?

When I've investigated this subject years ago, I came to a conclusion that hormonal dysbalance caused by soy protein products is most likely very exaggerated, but nonetheless I bought some kind of soy protein isolate with isoflavones removed. However, my main issue with soy protein was its awful taste :sick:, so I stopped its use entirely.
Apologies for the chaotic nature and lackluster order of the links - I was not thorough enough in keeping an organized list of references while writing this up and now digging through my browser history is a task I'm not sure I have the energy to complete...

This is just part of the references used, I'll try and collect the rest at a point when I'm not as drained as I am right now, after a heavy workout at the gym.

The hormonal imbalance is indeed vastly exaggerated and unrealistic, and soy seems to be completely safe and beneficial to consume in moderate amounts. I'm yet to experience the taste for myself, as I ordered chocolate-flavored soy isolate :)
 
Interesting write-up; you obviously put some thought and effort into this. Thanks for sharing.

It's funny though; we're so conditioned to recoil at the claim of conspiracy, I can't help but imagine you looking like this during your research, lol.

Charlies-Pepe-Silvia-conspiracy-in-Its-Always-Sunny.jpg
Not far from how I was, yes :ROFLMAO: I think it was a worthwhile effort, though, simply because I had the long-standing conviction shared by so many others that soy was indeed harmful to my hormonal balance and overall health, which turns out to not be the case whatsoever. This naturally begged the question why, then, has this meme endured for so long.

The conclusions are for each to draw on their own. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy theory specifically, but a well-timed and deliberate use of a meme for personal gain. Why not use the tool if it's already there?

To be clear, I'm not trying to say the dairy/meat industry created the "soy boy" meme, but rather that they used its existence for their own profit.

As to why the media allotted such a disproportionately large amount of attention to the several isolated and highly unreliable case studies that led to the negative connotations instead of focusing on the plethora of other studies that concluded neutral or positive effects, that I cannot say. Some might speculate the media was being influenced (bribed) by the meat and dairy industries, others might say they just like to focus more on the negative and create division and anxiety for the purpose of more engagement with their content.

I wonder where you stand on that. Perhaps a completely different take?
 
The conclusions are for each to draw on their own. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy theory specifically, but a well-timed and deliberate use of a meme for personal gain. Why not use the tool if it's already there?

To be clear, I'm not trying to say the dairy/meat industry created the "soy boy" meme, but rather that they used its existence for their own profit.
That's a helpful clarification. I wouldn't put it past one of these major industries to be opportunistic to their own benefit using a preexisting public sentiment.

As to why the media allotted such a disproportionately large amount of attention to the several isolated and highly unreliable case studies that led to the negative connotations instead of focusing on the plethora of other studies that concluded neutral or positive effects, that I cannot say. Some might speculate the media was being influenced (bribed) by the meat and dairy industries, others might say they just like to focus more on the negative and create division and anxiety for the purpose of more engagement with their content.

I wonder where you stand on that. Perhaps a completely different take?
I'm comparatively so uninformed as to be unable to add much. For the average citizen, it seems like there's a giant fog obscuring the true intentions and inner workings of these megacorps. Like I mentioned, I could be persuaded to believe that the meat and dairy industries used some underhanded methods to discredit their competitors, even with the stigma around the notion of conspiracies.
 
To provide a bit more contextual frame of how profitable the meat and dairy industries are - as of 2024 estimates, globally, the meat industry was valued at $1.46 trillion, and the dairy industry at $958.11 billion, totalling over $2.4 trillion. This is $2,400,000,000,000.

Operating under these absurdly large amounts of money is incentive enough for megacorporations to do anything in their power to preserve those revenue streams, including twisting and manipulating scientific data and outright lying to people.
 
Lets not forget that the meat and dairy industry is responsible for roughly the same amount of greenhouse gases as the whole of the United States. Cutting down on meat consumption is not only healthy on the short run but also beneficial for the environment now and in the future.

This is why I don’t eat meat regularly and limit myself on fish and dairy consumption, plants are a fantastic food source and as anyone who has the opportunity to make the change to a plant based diet can tell you. You feel much better in a short period of time and it’s really an inspiration to start with an whole new way of cooking food.
 
Lets not forget that the meat and dairy industry is responsible for roughly the same amount of greenhouse gases as the whole of the United States. Cutting down on meat consumption is not only healthy on the short run but also beneficial for the environment now and in the future.

This is why I don’t eat meat regularly and limit myself on fish and dairy consumption, plants are a fantastic food source and as anyone who has the opportunity to make the change to a plant based diet can tell you. You feel much better in a short period of time and it’s really an inspiration to start with an whole new way of cooking food.
Indeed, and GHGs are only a portion of the massive issue that comes with these two industries operating at the rate they are right now. Vast swathes of forest gets cut down, entire ecosystems are ruined, water sources are polluted, etc.

It's such a thorny subject for so many reasons.
 
Soy is a staple food in many Asian countries. It has been time-tested and is quite safe.
Worrying about hormonal imbalance from it when we eat microplastics daily is kind of silly.
It's not better or worse than meat and creates just as much damage to the environment (see soy farming in Brazil, for example).

It's good to get past cultural/commercial brainwashing and decide for yourself, but food choices aren't simple.
It all depends on your body type and the environment you live in. Eating soy in northern countries is just insane.
However, factory-farmed meat is just as bad here. I'd say grow your own if possible. Try to hunt or buy wild game.
Food is our base, and it gets worse each year. This tells a lot about the state of the world.

May you be healthy and never go hungry 🙏
 
It's not better or worse than meat and creates just as much damage to the environment (see soy farming in Brazil, for example).
Trying to compare which is "better" or "worse" is an approach fraught with nuance difficulties. The outcome of such a comparison largely depends on who is comparing, what their specific situation is, as well as what their metrics for positive and negative outcomes are.

And related to the second part of the above - it's emphasized by one of the points I mentioned in my original post, which perhaps you missed.

Since Brazil is one of the leading meat exporters in the world, they need a lot of livestock feed. Some estimates (particularly one from 2017) point out that nearly 90% of all soy production in Brazil went into food for livestock, while the other 10% went into direct human consumption in the forms of tofu and other soy-based products.

Soy is not the problem, and its production specifically in this case is not a direct correlate to its environmental impact. In fact, soy production is vastly more ecologically friendly than meat/dairy production from almost every single perspective you can think of.

Even though Brazil is somewhat of an outlier, globally the figures are not that different - estimates point to figures of 75% and above targeted entirely at livestock feed. Hence why I made the following point in my OP:
Consequently, reducing the intake of meat and dairy offers a dual benefit: it directly lowers the footprint of animal agriculture and simultaneously mitigates the environmental burden associated with soy cultivation for feed.

I can definitely agree that if one can afford it, growing one's own food or (sustainably) hunting/buying wild game is a good way to go about things. As it stands, however, most people around the world cannot afford that and have to rely on public supply.
 
Soy is a staple food in many Asian countries. It has been time-tested and is quite safe.
Worrying about hormonal imbalance from it when we eat microplastics daily is kind of silly.
It's not better or worse than meat and creates just as much damage to the environment (see soy farming in Brazil, for example).

It's good to get past cultural/commercial brainwashing and decide for yourself, but food choices aren't simple.
It all depends on your body type and the environment you live in. Eating soy in northern countries is just insane.
However, factory-farmed meat is just as bad here. I'd say grow your own if possible. Try to hunt or buy wild game.
Food is our base, and it gets worse each year. This tells a lot about the state of the world.

May you be healthy and never go hungry 🙏
Like Nydex points out, the claim that soy bean production is just as bad is not true the same goes for palm oil, and hunting for animals to eat is impossible without extermination of these species, there is just nothing close to the amount of wild animals to feed humanity.

The only solution is to stop eating animals, or at least drastically reduce the amount that we consume.
 
I do have high hopes for lab-grown meat in the future. I think it has the potential to alleviate many of these issues, but as always, the biggest hurdle will be properly communicating the situation to people and educating them on why it is a worthy alternative. And we all know how that has gone in the past :)
 
I use soy milk in my protein shakes, and for cereal if I ever eat it (rarely).. my thinking has always been along the same lines any fear of phytoestrogens and the like being mostly unwarranted, but at the same time plant protein has its own drawbacks, but in the case of soy it is all round a pretty good one...

What i've liked most about it is the fact that, the soybean contains its own protein and oil which makes a good milk emulsion... although they typically add the thickener carrageenan or the like , which are indigestible but add pleasing texture... so I try not to consume too much of it, but it certainly does make protein shakes more appetizing..

Soy bean oil also has its own concerns depending on the quality and manufacturing,, it makes me wonder now whether they add extra soybean oil when making the milk, or if its true to the actual oil content of the soybean..

Ideally , real freshly prepared soymilk, then you have the oil which is fresh pressed , rather than a byproduct which has to be refined and deodorized...

regardless , if i had to choose any of the commonly marketed plant based milks, cashew, almond.. those all contain added 'vegetable oil' , always though that name was bizarre , what does it have to do with vegetables... typically canola oil or soybean oil , i try to avoid consuming these type of cheap high temperature processed , oxidized and deodorized. Its basically like taking the deepfry oil thats been cooking all day then left out in the heat, then decolorizing and deodorizing it and selling it as if its brand new.. gross. Really that analogy is not at all far off from the standard vegetable oils...

soy milk in the end may not be any better if its not actually coming from soy beans, but just a premixed like 'instant soy' where they mix some soy protein isolate, cheap low cost highly processed soybean oil, mix it up with some indigestible thickener gum.... i mean cat and dog food is made with better care than this... its like whoever making it doesn't make it with the intention of consuming themselves..

if you ever had tried making your own nut milks, like take some raw almonds, soak them 24-48h, then blend them with a high power blender and strain out the liquid in a mesh bag, that stuff tastes incredible. Personally I haven't tried this with soybeans, but i imagine the process is close to identical, and i'd like to try it myself.. Only then you see the difference and realize how bad the ingredients are inside the commerical product, these commerical products use the cheapest low quality ingredients as their baseline, then they compete by seeing, who can make the lowest quality ingredients taste good enough that people actually will drink it...

so it seems innocuous on the face of it, but on the molecular level, the nutrient content is poor and even toxic in some cases with oxidation.. .but the otherwise rancid tastes that your senses would tell you what you are drinking isn't good, because its been processed to remove those bad tastes but without improving the actual quality of the fat/protein/micronutrients , actually contributes to making it worse
 
I use soy milk in my protein shakes, and for cereal if I ever eat it (rarely).. my thinking has always been along the same lines any fear of phytoestrogens and the like being mostly unwarranted, but at the same time plant protein has its own drawbacks, but in the case of soy it is all round a pretty good one...

What i've liked most about it is the fact that, the soybean contains its own protein and oil which makes a good milk emulsion... although they typically add the thickener carrageenan or the like , which are indigestible but add pleasing texture... so I try not to consume too much of it, but it certainly does make protein shakes more appetizing..

Soy bean oil also has its own concerns depending on the quality and manufacturing,, it makes me wonder now whether they add extra soybean oil when making the milk, or if its true to the actual oil content of the soybean..

Ideally , real freshly prepared soymilk, then you have the oil which is fresh pressed , rather than a byproduct which has to be refined and deodorized...

regardless , if i had to choose any of the commonly marketed plant based milks, cashew, almond.. those all contain added 'vegetable oil' , always though that name was bizarre , what does it have to do with vegetables... typically canola oil or soybean oil , i try to avoid consuming these type of cheap high temperature processed , oxidized and deodorized. Its basically like taking the deepfry oil thats been cooking all day then left out in the heat, then decolorizing and deodorizing it and selling it as if its brand new.. gross. Really that analogy is not at all far off from the standard vegetable oils...

soy milk in the end may not be any better if its not actually coming from soy beans, but just a premixed like 'instant soy' where they mix some soy protein isolate, cheap low cost highly processed soybean oil, mix it up with some indigestible thickener gum.... i mean cat and dog food is made with better care than this... its like whoever making it doesn't make it with the intention of consuming themselves..

if you ever had tried making your own nut milks, like take some raw almonds, soak them 24-48h, then blend them with a high power blender and strain out the liquid in a mesh bag, that stuff tastes incredible. Personally I haven't tried this with soybeans, but i imagine the process is close to identical, and i'd like to try it myself.. Only then you see the difference and realize how bad the ingredients are inside the commerical product, these commerical products use the cheapest low quality ingredients as their baseline, then they compete by seeing, who can make the lowest quality ingredients taste good enough that people actually will drink it...

so it seems innocuous on the face of it, but on the molecular level, the nutrient content is poor and even toxic in some cases with oxidation.. .but the otherwise rancid tastes that your senses would tell you what you are drinking isn't good, because its been processed to remove those bad tastes but without improving the actual quality of the fat/protein/micronutrients , actually contributes to making it worse
All very fair points. Fresh made nut milk is indeed amazing. I've lately started following a simple rule of thumb when choosing what to put in my body - prioritize things that ARE ingredients instead of things that HAVE ingredients. This usually drastically reduces the number of things I can consume without feeling bad about it, but on the positive - it makes my body feel really good, so it's totally worth the extra effort.

The rise of hyperpalatable, highly-processed foods is one of the biggest, if not the biggest reason for the obesity pandemic and all the dietary medical conditions like diabetes, as well as a massive number of cancers. While switching to less palatable, simple food with barely any ingredients at all might include a difficult transition period, for me personally it's been absolutely worth it.

I'm still far from having my diet dialed down to a T, but I'm getting there. Thanks for the insights ML! <3
 
Trying to compare which is "better" or "worse" is an approach fraught with nuance difficulties. The outcome of such a comparison largely depends on who is comparing
I was comparing them from my own perspective. We all make choices on an individual level.
Since Brazil is one of the leading meat exporters in the world, they need a lot of livestock feed.
Sure, but they deforest Amazon all the same. It doesn't matter if it's for meat or soy.
hunting for animals to eat is impossible without extermination of these species, there is just nothing close to the amount of wild animals to feed humanity.
Once again, I was talking for our circle here on Nexus. Many people are fine with chips & cola. I see it every time at the store.
The only solution is to stop eating animals, or at least drastically reduce the amount that we consume.
I agree, but animal products have their place. In northern countries, meat and fish are primary food sources.
Cold climates can make digestion sluggish, and most produce gets transported here. We mainly grow wheat and potatoes, and that's about it.
I do have high hopes for lab-grown meat in the future.
If we're talking about the masses, that's the way to go. Lab-grown meat comes almost karma-free, so it should be the choice for any conscious human.

I agree with both of you. However, nothing in life is black and white, and people need to think for themselves.
My views are based on my life, so they're biased all the way, friends. That's how it really is.
Great aspirations always meet reality. If I lived somewhere warm and sunny, I'd most likely become a vegetarian.
🙏
 
Homemade tofu was one of my first plant extractions. ;)

Brewing soybeans, mixing them to made soy milk, filter plant solids with some cloth, precipitating solids from soy milk by addition of some coagulant, filter it to obtain wet crude tofu and dry it by squeezing remaining liquid out is very similar process to harmalas extraction.
 
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Sure, but they deforest Amazon all the same. It doesn't matter if it's for meat or soy.
Nobody is arguing that deforestation isn't happening at alarming rates. In the context of this post, however, it definitely matters whether the deforestation is happening directly or indirectly because of soy. In this case, it's indirectly, because it's being used as livestock food.

To put it in the form of a metaphor, imagine a massive cardboard factory that causes local deforestation. 5% of the factory's production is being bought by thousands of artists who package their art, the other 95% is bought by a large logistics company.

In this scenario would you blame the thousands of artists that contributed a mere 20th of the deforestation on equal grounds as the logistics megacorporation? I know I wouldn't.

That being said, I do agree that personal dietary choices always depend on circumstance, where one lives, what their purchasing power is, what is and isn't available, etc.
 
Nobody is arguing that deforestation isn't happening at alarming rates. In the context of this post, however, it definitely matters whether the deforestation is happening directly or indirectly because of soy. In this case, it's indirectly, because it's being used as livestock food.
I see. It's very hard to answer when you put it that way.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions; anything good could be co-opted for profit.

I'd still focus on deforestation and perhaps some real policies that promote sustainable agricultural practices.
However, I know how this world operates and what's going to happen. Ultimately, it all depends on local growers and how they work.
Vote with your wallet should apply here. If you truly believe in a cause, invest in it.

I love soy, but everything we touch often becomes a problem. It's not that meat is inherently bad; our approach to meat farming is bad.
We need to focus on education, a good social environment, sound ethics, and much more. It's up to civilization builders, but my voice feels muted.
It looks like making weapons and fighting among ourselves takes priority 😭

Edit: Sorry for pooping on this thread with my ideology. I see that you found soy a good product & cause. All the best, really.
I'm sure you'll be healthier and more content eating something you believe in. My feeble attempt was to point out the complexity of this topic.
People who have the time and means to choose their food are blessed. Enjoy and be grateful. That's my main message, I feel.
❤️
 
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