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STB Mescaline Extraction TEK
pete666
Esteemed member
So for pachanoi
Whole cactus : 4 drops, 0,033195704mg, 0,06% fresh, 0,85% dry
White inner flesh + core : 1 drop, 0,008298926mg, 0,01% fresh, 0,21% dry
Green outer flesh : 7 drops, 0,058092482mg, 0,10% fresh, 1,49% dry
Pics : whole cactus, inner white flesh+core, outer green flesh
Whole cactus : 4 drops, 0,033195704mg, 0,06% fresh, 0,85% dry
White inner flesh + core : 1 drop, 0,008298926mg, 0,01% fresh, 0,21% dry
Green outer flesh : 7 drops, 0,058092482mg, 0,10% fresh, 1,49% dry
Pics : whole cactus, inner white flesh+core, outer green flesh
Attachments
pete666
Esteemed member
I have updated the estimated alkaloid amounts. I haven't realized I am not using designated amount of toluene - 13ml, but 50ml instead. Therefore usual 65% gain from first pull is not applicable here and it was changed to 100%, so the error is in our favor. The estimates are now more real.
pete666
Esteemed member
Some other tests have been proceeded. All seem to be good 
Thank you mescalito!
Pictures...
1. all bottles
2. the same test for bridgesii as before, but with NaOH
3. updated TEK (not yet published) for pachanoi
4. the same test for pachanoi as before, but with NaOH
5. updated TEK (not yet published) for peruvian
6. updated TEK (not yet published) for peruvian, but with KOH
7. the same test as before - for peruvianus
8. the same test as before - for peruvianus, but with NaOH
9. salting - the same test for bridgesii as before, but with NaOH
10. salting - the same test as before - for peruvianus
Thank you mescalito! Pictures...
1. all bottles
2. the same test for bridgesii as before, but with NaOH
3. updated TEK (not yet published) for pachanoi
4. the same test for pachanoi as before, but with NaOH
5. updated TEK (not yet published) for peruvian
6. updated TEK (not yet published) for peruvian, but with KOH
7. the same test as before - for peruvianus
8. the same test as before - for peruvianus, but with NaOH
9. salting - the same test for bridgesii as before, but with NaOH
10. salting - the same test as before - for peruvianus
Attachments
pete666
Esteemed member
So the result is there is not emulsion for any of tested variants, neither for extraction nor for back-salting.
The updated TEK (not published yet), which uses less water, less base and more NaCl, led to pieces of undecomposed cactus mass. The yield was slightly better for peruvianus, but slightly worse for pachanoi. In general I would say it was very similar. So it seems more water doesn't seem to be a problem for yield, as far as there is enough base.
NaOH seems to have slightly lower yield.
There is still plenty of space for tweaking, but enough for now.
The updated TEK (not published yet), which uses less water, less base and more NaCl, led to pieces of undecomposed cactus mass. The yield was slightly better for peruvianus, but slightly worse for pachanoi. In general I would say it was very similar. So it seems more water doesn't seem to be a problem for yield, as far as there is enough base.
NaOH seems to have slightly lower yield.
There is still plenty of space for tweaking, but enough for now.
pete666
Esteemed member
pete666
Esteemed member
*Very interesting*
I am just after second pull of extraction of about 2,5kg of fresh cactuses (see the above picture). This extraction uses a lot of water. I mistakenly forgot to use NaCl before first pull and used it only for second pull. Both pulls with the same volume of toluene. Titration of first pull used 3ml of acid, titration of second pull (with NaCl) used 4ml. Usually first pull is about 68% and second pull is 22%.
I might do something wrong, but if not...
I am just after second pull of extraction of about 2,5kg of fresh cactuses (see the above picture). This extraction uses a lot of water. I mistakenly forgot to use NaCl before first pull and used it only for second pull. Both pulls with the same volume of toluene. Titration of first pull used 3ml of acid, titration of second pull (with NaCl) used 4ml. Usually first pull is about 68% and second pull is 22%.
I might do something wrong, but if not...
Hmm interesting I like it. It gives me ideas!
I wonder if we could shorten the time up a bit. Like do an acidic heated extraction first to quickly kill the snot and to get everything out of the plant material, then carefully reduce to very low volume while monitoring temperature, make basic, oversaturate with powder NaCl to form a slurry, and then pull with toluene. Recently someone has found that simply pulling from a semi-solid layer eliminates emulsions completely. Just have to make sure that solid doesnt hold onto what you want to extract. And with the salt fighting for water, driving the alkaloids out into the nonpolar.. the yields could be amazing.8)
I wonder if we could shorten the time up a bit. Like do an acidic heated extraction first to quickly kill the snot and to get everything out of the plant material, then carefully reduce to very low volume while monitoring temperature, make basic, oversaturate with powder NaCl to form a slurry, and then pull with toluene. Recently someone has found that simply pulling from a semi-solid layer eliminates emulsions completely. Just have to make sure that solid doesnt hold onto what you want to extract. And with the salt fighting for water, driving the alkaloids out into the nonpolar.. the yields could be amazing.8)
pete666
Esteemed member
Interesting idea.
NaCl was initially used to increase the ionic strenght, but by coincidence caused lack of emulsions where otherwise they would emerge. Now it seems it has two purposes. Its positive action in emulsion prevention has been tested by me, at least with powderized green flesh of torch. I am planning to do some more tests to prove it helps with mescaline transport from water to non-polar soon.
What you suggest might work I would say, but I think the amount of water is very important for avoiding the emulsions. So finally you might save some time by boiling it, but then you may be forced to use more water and lose the advantage of water volume minimization.
For me the total duration of the extraction is not important. What matters is the effort necessary to keep it running. I don't mind having it 3 days in the vessel decomposing if all I have to do is to mix it for few minutes a day. I like STB because I blend/powderize the cactus, mix it with base in the blender, pour into the bottle and from that point everything is happening inside the bottle, almost without an effort. It is very fast, very clean, no straining, no cooking. Shaking the bottles is not problem at all, the only requirement is the caution.
NaCl was initially used to increase the ionic strenght, but by coincidence caused lack of emulsions where otherwise they would emerge. Now it seems it has two purposes. Its positive action in emulsion prevention has been tested by me, at least with powderized green flesh of torch. I am planning to do some more tests to prove it helps with mescaline transport from water to non-polar soon.
What you suggest might work I would say, but I think the amount of water is very important for avoiding the emulsions. So finally you might save some time by boiling it, but then you may be forced to use more water and lose the advantage of water volume minimization.
For me the total duration of the extraction is not important. What matters is the effort necessary to keep it running. I don't mind having it 3 days in the vessel decomposing if all I have to do is to mix it for few minutes a day. I like STB because I blend/powderize the cactus, mix it with base in the blender, pour into the bottle and from that point everything is happening inside the bottle, almost without an effort. It is very fast, very clean, no straining, no cooking. Shaking the bottles is not problem at all, the only requirement is the caution.
pete666
Esteemed member
Extracting some raw material, first pull...
Attachments
pete666
Esteemed member
They were all about number 2 on my bitterness teste scale.
The yield was quite low, the estimate for all 3 pulls (after this first pull) is just 0.06% raw
The yield was quite low, the estimate for all 3 pulls (after this first pull) is just 0.06% raw
pete666
Esteemed member
I have finished this extraction and yes, it is exactly 0.06%. Not much for the better half of commerically available cacti from entheogen vendors, but there is at least something.
One interesting experience from this extration though. I have heated the last pull and ended with somewhat cloudy toluene. Weird, that was just one toluene layer, no emulsion layer at all. So I left it on the shelf in 2L erlenmeyer flask for few days and it started to clear up within few days. Thin clear layer became more and more visible at the top. So I left if for a month or more and finaly got clear toluene with some kind of sediment of green and white color at the bottom of the flask.
I remember few times I have had cloudy non-polar both for mescaline and for dmt extrations. I always continued with back-salting and likely had some kind of contamination in the result. This was not a problem for dmt, because subsequent mini-A/B removed all of this, but for mescaline this might lead to some kind of salt (KCl, NaCl) in the result product, because the cleanup is just focused onto alkaloids and not the salt itself.
I have read this advice few times here and there, but here it is again... If the non-polar is not clear, give it few days or weeks and decant it afterwards if any kind of sediment is apparent.
One interesting experience from this extration though. I have heated the last pull and ended with somewhat cloudy toluene. Weird, that was just one toluene layer, no emulsion layer at all. So I left it on the shelf in 2L erlenmeyer flask for few days and it started to clear up within few days. Thin clear layer became more and more visible at the top. So I left if for a month or more and finaly got clear toluene with some kind of sediment of green and white color at the bottom of the flask.
I remember few times I have had cloudy non-polar both for mescaline and for dmt extrations. I always continued with back-salting and likely had some kind of contamination in the result. This was not a problem for dmt, because subsequent mini-A/B removed all of this, but for mescaline this might lead to some kind of salt (KCl, NaCl) in the result product, because the cleanup is just focused onto alkaloids and not the salt itself.
I have read this advice few times here and there, but here it is again... If the non-polar is not clear, give it few days or weeks and decant it afterwards if any kind of sediment is apparent.
blue.magic
Rising Star
I found this too, the cloudiness went away after weeks.
Maybe a drying agent like MgSO4 will help. Toluene can be wet and a minute amount of water could cause the cloudiness/contamination perhaps.
Maybe a drying agent like MgSO4 will help. Toluene can be wet and a minute amount of water could cause the cloudiness/contamination perhaps.
pete666
Esteemed member
I have found forgotten bottle of xylene and tried it with my last batch of powderized outer green tissue. First pull was ok, separation was good, but second pull was worse, about 25% got lost in the aqueous soup. It would probably separate after some time, but I don't want to wait more than few hours between shakes, as first pull has 3x, second 6x and third 9x shaking cycles. So xylene seems to be worse than toluene here.
Moreover I have used fresh toluene and the separation is much better than with my old toluene. I would suggest changing (or distilling) the toluene every 9-12 pulls.
Moreover I have used fresh toluene and the separation is much better than with my old toluene. I would suggest changing (or distilling) the toluene every 9-12 pulls.