STB/Norman's Tek Edit

[57u133]

Recently SWIM tried a slight revision on a STB/Norman's Tek that seemed to work very well...mostly because SWIM feels it would help to up the yield.
After making the lye solution, mixing in the root bark powder, let sit, put in solvent. At this point most use VM&P Naptha which works well but SWIM used Bestine this time and the xtals that crashed out during freeze precip were bigger, whiter, and more of them than with Naptha.
Any thoughts as to who what when where or why?

 

[bransondude]

It's known already I'm afraid so I guess you can't name it,

The stuff is really good at getting DMT out too.

My buddy Alfrendo told me he once did a bestine first, naptha second, and xylene third. Ended up with 1% yield of light tan spice (he didn't have enough space to reduce/evap each solvent seperate so he combined them).

 

[57u133]

If it's known how come Bestine is only recommended for re-xtal on this board? Do you have any links to teks using bestine in place of Naptha? I am pretty sure using bestine only as solvent should increase yield to closer to 2% too.

 

[geeg30]

I think Bestine (like naptha) is not the best at dissolving DMT - which is why it is very good a freeze precips.

Bestine is just Heptane while naptha is a mix of hydrocarbons (dependant on the type of naptha). The reasoning is that naptha should in theory pull more spice than heptane - plus naptha is much cheaper and easier to get for most people.

However you could substitute naptha with heptane in any of the teks without any problems. Its all up to preference

 

[Jumper]

As far as I know, it's because heptane has a more narrow range of solubility than naptha. That's why it works so well for recrystallization. Like geeg30 said, you can use bestine for STB if you like, however naptha is cheaper and works. Better to reserve the bestine for re-X.

 

[Funk-Bugle]

Apologies for this question it may well seem ridiculously simple to all of you but I can not find the answer I am looking for anywhere! I have the pdf downloaded of "dmt for the masses" nomans tek but there is one part of it that I need some clarification on.

After I have cooked the mimosa hostillis and added the naptha and seperated the first layer it says "repeat these steps 3 times" does this mean I add more naptha to the solution I have already seperated? Do I add naptha to the same solution 3 times (ie doing 4 seperations altogether of the same solution) or does it mean that I cook a new solution of mhrb with water and add the lemon and lye etc and seperate 3 different solutions before putting them all in the refrigerator to crystalize in one jar?

I just want to get it exactly right and when it says "repeat these steps" it doesn't specify if it is the last couple of steps or every step listed!

Thanks hopefully someone can help!

 

[Noman]

You extract the basified solution with naptha three more times.
You probably have a PDF of the Entheogen Review article which has a typo of those steps.
The Erowid version:

Erowid Mimosa (Jurema) Vault : DMT for the Masses

'DMT for the Masses', by Noman.

www.erowid.org

has it corrected with an explanation.

 

[Funk-Bugle]

Thanks Noman!

That extraction seems simpler as SWIM was worried about over boiling the bark as they suggest in the Entheogen Review article.

That extraction is also quicker it seems too happy days hope it works.

 

[Noman]

That extraction seems simpler as SWIM was worried about over boiling the bark as they suggest in the Entheogen Review article.

The ER article calls for boiling?

 

[Funk-Bugle]

Not boiling as in 100 degrees but it required gentle heating and SWIM was concerned they might overheat it!
SWIM followed the tek you posted that night anyway and it came
out ok but they were slightly confused by the naptha and water changes. At the end of the tek when they added any tips it reccommended using less than
1ml of naptha per 15ml of water and suggested using around 0.4ml instead, but then above that it also reccommended that if you use
powdered root hostilis to increase the water by double or at least one and a half times the suggested amount. This then baffled SWIM
slightly as if you're using twice the water they presumed you would need double the naptha and it got a little confusing. In the end
they used 1.5 times the water and about 50ml of naptha as a compromise from 20ml due to the extra water. They tell me the crystals came
out okay but they haven't smoked them yet and that they also used jars that were too big which made it harder to scrape out what was
left after they filtered!

 

[Noman]

1ml of naptha per 15ml of water and suggested using around 0.4ml instead, but then above that it also reccommended that if you use
powdered root hostilis to increase the water by double or at least one and a half times the suggested amount. This then baffled SWIM
slightly as if you're using twice the water they presumed you would need double the naptha and it got a little confusing.

Quote from the addendum to the tek:
" By using around 0.4 ml of heated naphtha per gram of bark, every pull except the last one freeze-precipitated easily."
So you base the amount of naptha on the amount of bark, not water.

Thanks for the feedback.
When I approached Erowid with the addendum, I proposed rewriting the entire tek and included the addendum to indicate what I would be changing.
They just stuck the addendum onto the end and called it good.
They also misspelled Entropymancer's handle.

 

[Funk-Bugle]

SWIM has now tried both teks reccomended and is getting like 0.2/0.3 % yields still which is kind of odd. Maybe SWIM IS not getting good bark? They're ordering it from www.mh-uk.com as they're am UK based and they're the only suppliers other than Ebay they could find, they seemed cool but you never know.

When SWIM followed the Entheogen Review PDF they did so to a tee pretty much, using 160g of powdered MHRB and about 700ml of water slowly and gently heated in a crockpot for about 90 minutes they then put it all in a big air tight jar and added lemon juice to get it to ph3 which they tested with a digital tester. Then a couple of days later after plenty of shaking they filtered off the solid matter and were left with 300ml of the mhrb "juice" which was then taken to ph 10.8 by adding a small amount of the water lye solution. SWIM was shocked at how little lye and water solution they needed to get the ph up to that level as they only uses 4 grams in 50ml of water and part of the lye solution wasn't even added as it was already ph10.8.

Then 4 seperate extractions were done using a separatory funnel and ronsonal naptha, they added about 75ml of naptha for the first pull as they were using 300ml of mhrb "juice" and had used well over 150g of powdered bark. The naptha was rolled around in each case correctly and seperated into 4 separate jars which went in the freezer, took 4-5 days to get only about 0.3 grams of spice crystals.

SWIM is thinking that either, the bark was poor quality, the freezer wasn't cold enough, he has done something wrong in the tek somehow.

Anyone got any better suggestions for teks?

SWIM found with the Nomans Tek as SWIM used the first time around rather than the Entheogen Review pdf tek because the separatory funnel is only a 1000ml it was hard to do a large pull at a time due to the amount of water and the sizes of the liquids used!
funn

 

[Noman]

Which ER tek were you using with the lemon juice?
The problem that you had there is that you didn't basify nearly high enough - you should have taken it past 13.
Also with an A/B, you want to add the acid before you cook it and do a couple of extractions.
It doesn't sound like you used my tek at all.

 

[Funk-Bugle]

I was using the Dmt for the Masses Tek by Huasquero and Johnny X Good as it just seemed simple.

I would have basified more it seemed like more should be added but the tek said 10-11 and I took it 10.8 so I thought
that would work.

So you think add the lye to get it to past ph13 first then cook it in the crockpot but maybe for a little longer or at a slightly
higher temperature? When you say do a couple of extractions you mean after I've cooked it only do two extractions?

 

[Shaolin]

"n all fairness, the title of this article must be credited to an original article downloaded from Erowid psycho- active vaults titled: ‘DMT for the Masses . . . a mhrb extraction tek’, by Noman, (an updated and edited reprint of the same-named article from The Entheogen Review, Autumnal Equinox 2006 Issue, Volume XV, Number 3. Reprint based on the text as archived at dmt-nexus.me. Edited by Noman and Zhah March, 2007.) This ar- ticle, by Huasquero & Johnny X Good, is a revision of the original articles, in which we have rened procedures outlined in the original and added some photographs"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/42803779/How-to-Make-DMT

In my opinion the pH is too low to get any significant yield. Get it to 13 and you are good.

"Multiple extractions" with the A/B mean that you boil the mimosa material with acidified water multiple (3-5) times, changing it (water) every time(for instance for 100g, you do 3*1000ml of acidified H20), combining it all and the reducing (boiling off).

Also the TEK mentioned "store it a couple of days". Did you do that ?

All in all, I would start with another TEK.

STB - Lots of NaOH needed, fast
A/B - boiling, less NaOH needed, takes more time than STB
DryTek - No NaOH, but needs CaOH2 and limonene/naptha

Check the Wiki/Faq to decide.

 

[Funk-Bugle]

Yeah SWIM stored it for 3 days and shook the jar over and over, so if they add a little more acidified water this time hopefully they'll get a greatr yield.

Just one thing, with multiple extractions mentioned, if SWIM mixED the acidified water with the mhrb at the start then presumably I have no need for
the lemon at all? Also I get slightly confused with the water to mhrb ratios and the PH's. If SWIM adds 1000ml with say 50g of lye is that not likely to mess up the ph and take it to 14? Ignoring that you think SWIM should cook the same 100g of mimosa three times using 1000ml of acidified water each time and then boil it down to about 400ml in total before applying the naptha?

Thanks for your help btw this has been quite a frustrating process for SWIM.

 

[Noman]

What? Some suckers highjacked my tek, fucked it up, and didn't bother to rename it?
Lame.
Anyway, don't heat the solution in a crockpot after you basify it.
And use a different tek.

 

[Pandora]

wtf?!? I own all the Entheogen Reviews and as far as I can determine this first appeared in 2006 with a revision in 2008.

Forget the pirates - you'd do better to stick with Noman's directions. Follow the tek to the letter. Measure carefully. Make love to the jars, don't f**k them, be gentle. Take Your Time. This is truly a sure-fire no-brainer way to produce lots of white xtals quickly.

 

[Shaolin]

Yeah SWIM stored it for 3 days and shook the jar over and over, so if they add a little more acidified water this time hopefully they'll get a greatr yield.

Just one thing, with multiple extractions mentioned, if SWIM mixED the acidified water with the mhrb at the start then presumably I have no need for
the lemon at all? Also I get slightly confused with the water to mhrb ratios and the PH's. If SWIM adds 1000ml with say 50g of lye is that not likely to mess up the ph and take it to 14? Ignoring that you think SWIM should cook the same 100g of mimosa three times using 1000ml of acidified water each time and then boil it down to about 400ml in total before applying the naptha?

Thanks for your help btw this has been quite a frustrating process for SWIM.

Well to acidify the water you need acid, e.g. lemon but in most cases vinegar is used.

14 isn't a problematic pH, 11 is. You can't really overbasify the solution.

"Ignoring that you think SWIM should cook the same 100g of mimosa three times using 1000ml of acidified water each time and then boil it down to about 400ml in total before applying the naptha? "

Exactly, you boil the same 100g of mimosa three (to five) times using a certain amount of water (from 1ml to 1.5ml per gram of bark) and then reduce to a workable (depends on your separatory funnel/container) amount.

You then basify and AFTER that, add naptha (multiple times).

Like Noman said, you should choose yourself another TEK. If you can get a lot (500g of NaOH) go with Nomans version. If you can't get that amount go A/B.

Read a little bit more, especially about the sequence and the solvents.

Be well my friend.

 

[Funk-Bugle]

SWIM thought they had done some pretty thorough research but perhaps they need to understand the actual reaction better in order
to know how it should all work rather than just following the Tek (particularly not good out of date ones!) but thanks for your help.

Guess it's kind of a case of trial and error to a certain extent anyway I'm sure it'll come good at some stage!