STB using DCM as solvent on prepowdered rootbark

[monkeyboy]

Swim has read that less DCM and fewer pulls are nessisary then when using other solvents

He has also read that fewer pulls are nessisary on prepowdered MHRB

Lets say he was dreaming of kg sized batches being run out of 5 gallon jugs- aprox how much DCM would he use per pull, and how many pulls would be ideally performed at aproximatly what time (in swiys guestimation)

In other words, compared to Naphta, should he dream of simply using half the volume? He understands also that DCM will be pulling more alkaloids (jungle spice,DMT-Noxide etc)- he wonders if this will actually be a factor as well.


Also- seeing that 5 gallon jugs are to be employed, and a rolling method would be unsafe- any ideas on a good mixing method?

Considering DCM's ability to separate easier, could swim be a bit more vigarous with stirring? Also, would less NaOH solution be nessisary to add due to this fact as well (swim hears of people claiming to need more aqueous solution in order to avoid emulsions)

 

[69ron]

DCM will pull more than just all the alkaloids. It’s not a good idea.

Naphtha is better for an STB tech. If you use DCM, you’d have to do a few more steps to purify the alkaloids. It’s better for an A/B tech that also has a defat step in it.

 

[benzyme]

unless that acid is acetic. dcm has a tendency to pull everything from acetic acid too. if you defat with dcm, you run the risk of losing a lot of alkaloids (defeats the purpose of defatting)
defat with naptha, extract with dcm.

 

[monkeyboy]

DCM will pull more than just all the alkaloids. It’s not a good idea.

Naphtha is better for an STB tech. If you use DCM, you’d have to do a few more steps to purify the alkaloids. It’s better for an A/B tech that also has a defat step in it.

Swim was planning to follow the STB with the FASA method to purify.... PROVIDED his initial test with clean DCM didnt form any precipitate with the addition of FASA.


IF DCM + FASA forms precipitate, swim will switch to pulling with toluene and once again cleaning with FASA.


This still inadvisable?

 

[monkeyboy]

under normal circumstances, swim would perform an A/B with defat, and a wash or two of the freebased NP as well, but seeing as he is going to be dealing with tons of material, without vacuum filtration, he is looking to avoid doing all those soaks/filters. He wants to use the FASA tek anyways to store a large chunk of what he finds as well- plus the FASA tek omits the need for freeze precipitation and all that other hassle.

 

[burnt]

Also realize that DCM is lighter then water so water sits on top of the DCM. if you are doing STB this could easily make a huge mess unless the solid plant material is removed.

 

[monkeyboy]

swim was planning on using a glass pippette to remove the DCM from the bottom

 

[kemist]

YOU RATHER DON`T ILPT`s friend did exactly the same mistake. DCM HAVE HIGHER DENSITY THEN WATER. It will sink down and become soaked by rootbark sediment.Then only think you can do is stick the pipette up to your a... . He hasn`t buchner funnel and it take a big effort to filtrate DCM out of soaked sediment. He made load of mess not mention disgusting stinky vapours all around the place
The yield was miserable 1\4 of theory, however jungle spice was very high quality and brought break-trough exp. to his mate.

 

[benzyme]

dcm smells better than naptha. it's sweeter, and not as hazardous as chloroform.
dmt is SO soluble in dcm, if ILPT's friend spilled it, he certainly lost some spice.

if using DCM, invest in a sep funnel. swim did, when he could still order DPT online (to convert it to the free base...he actually got a pint of chloroform too). it was his first piece of equipment.

 

[monkeyboy]

kemist, thank you very much for that.... swim would have wasted alot of rootbark had he not heard this, he was expecting the sediment to remain suspended in the aqueous layer.

DCM should only then be used for A/B type extractions. Good to know.

Swim will still take the time to add some FASA dropwise to DCM to let peeps know if its good to use or not since he already has procured a gallon.

Looks like toluene then. This will certainly make the extraction much easier.

 

[monkeyboy]

YOU RATHER DON`T ILPT`s friend did exactly the same mistake. DCM HAVE HIGHER DENSITY THEN WATER. It will sink down and become soaked by rootbark sediment.Then only think you can do is stick the pipette up to your a... . He hasn`t buchner funnel and it take a big effort to filtrate DCM out of soaked sediment. He made load of mess not mention disgusting stinky vapours all around the place
The yield was miserable 1\4 of theory, however jungle spice was very high quality and brought break-trough exp. to his mate.

Was the DMT separated from the junlge spice or was it just the whole mix of alkaloids?

How did this jungle spice compare with jungle spice extracted through other solvents (toluene, xylene etc.)?

 

[kemist]

Was the DMT separated from the junlge spice or was it just the whole mix of alkaloids?

ILPT recovered whole bunch of alkaloids. Due the problems with separation of DCM yield was miserable. Therefore no further purification or dmt separation were proceed.

How did this jungle spice compare with jungle spice extracted through other solvents (toluene, xylene etc.)?

ILPT hate xylene and never used it in his life. He also didn`t try toluene yet for extraction of dmt.

HE WOULD SUGGEST DIETHYLETHER or PETROLETHER for this type of extraction, cos they will float on the top and will not be soaked into sediment, also evaporation is far more quicker then with bloody toluene. But if you have vacuum distil. go for toluene since toulene will float. JUST DON`T USE DCM in wet STB :!:

 

[Infundibulum]

DCM causes precipitation of fumaric acid if FASA is added to it. So, it is not that excellent in this respect. And if you do not have a separatory funnel or similar it will make a mess. Go for toluene / xylene or naphtha.

 

[fourthripley]

When playing around with DCM my cat found the strangest thing, with a super saturated NaOH solution it will actually float on top; this was a cause for much head scratching and puzzlement. Had he got something mixed up? No, he checked and mixed a little more of his solvent into plain water and it behaved normally. Never heard of this property before though. Wonder if it has any practical use.

 

[69ron]

That's interesting. I wonder if adding tons of salt would do the same thing, making the water sink and the DCM float? Hmmmm...

 

[benzyme]

probably.

salt water is considerably denser than DI water.

not only are you increasing the density by supersaturating the aqueous phase with a salt, you're increasing the polarity; thus making it much easier for the free base to migrate into the dcm, of course not that it has an problem doing so anyway.

 

[monkeyboy]

thanks for the heads up everyone. swim is just going to do half his rootbark A/B with DCM (plus defats and washes etc- and yes, he does have a small sep funnel to work with) and then the second half STB using toluene and FASA to have stuff to store.

 

[kemist]

SEEMS LIKE NOBODY LIKES ethoxyethane in this forum. THAT`S A SHAME:!: ILPT can imagine excellent result with using that in cold wet carbonate STB. Cold yet quick evaporation with help of suction thereafter, to get N-oxide_less DMT. And the smell of it, nothing like gross methylene dichloride.Just to get hands on it