STB w zinc conversion, solvent choices..?

[Angelic]

Hello,

When doing STB teks using sodium hydroxide.

If planning to pull a full spec jungle intentionally so that the dmt n-oxide can later be converted to dmt via use of elemental zinc powder to maximize yields.. which solvent choice seems most suitable?

If Planning to do a mini AB on the initial chloroform/xylene pulls, by adding vinegar and then sodium hydroxide. Pulling the vinegar lye mini ab with heptane to remove all dmt then crystallize. To leave behind dmt n-oxide in the vinegar lye layer.

Separate heptane and vinegar lye layers. Now pull vinegar lye layer, that now is depleted of all dmt but still has dmt n-oxide in it, with more solvent (chloroform/xylene). This time add vinegar to salt the dmt out of the chloroform/xylene but do not add lye.

Then finally adding zinc powder to the vinegar layer after separating completely from the chloroform/xylene. Finishing zinc conversion on vinegar layer after separating. Adjust ph of vinegar layer to 9.5 with lye and now pull w heptane to retrieve all dmt n oxide which has now been converted into dmt..

Leaning towards using chloroform for initial pulls rather than xylene/toluene. If that isn’t a good choice for some reason?? (any input very appreciated)then I will likely just switch to an A/B tek so I can use DCM. Making sure the base layer is cold before adding dcm. And immediately salting the dmt out of the dcm, once collected from base layer after pulls, via mini ab rather than evaporation. Same story as above use zinc on vinegar layer to maximize yields.

Can someone explain a bit why dcm can’t be used with stb teks? I’d like to understand that a little more so please

Swim had chosen STB bc it was familiar, plus A/B wasn’t an option at that time. But if an AB will also help maximum returns then swim could consider it. Which would make solvent choice easy also lol, I’d def go w DCM. Wwyd??

Open to any feedback, suggestions, warnings, criticisms, ect..

Thank you!

 

[Angelic]

Welp, decisions have been made to focus on the A/B route using dcm and distillation to recycle dcm. So that settles that part.

Realized that rather than zinc powder can be omitted if using vinegar citric acid and ascorbic acid. Zinc seems more attractive to me, due to my observations of different acids and bases reacting w vinegar to form unknown precipitate/s. Until I’ve perhaps observed lab grade acids/bases when mixed (gently or vigorously same observation..)w diluted lab grade acetic acid or vinegar NOT form precipitate I won’t focus on that route.

To answer my own question, dcm can’t be used in stb wet tek (not sure about dry) bc it will collect bark particles and become a mess from what I’ve read, never witnessed it. So an AB needs to be done so that all the bark matter is filtered out well

Also, ethyl acetate may not be used in a stb with lye. I did focus on this shortly to find this out.

 

[Transform]

DMT-N-oxide is essentially a myth, at least in the context of extractions. The coloured "fats and oils" that we've been seeing largely consist of polymers and oligomers of DMT. These get broken back down to DMT during the acidification phase, making zinc superfluous.

@Brennendes Wasser performed some rigorous chemical tests on actual, sythesised DMT-N-oxide and demonstrated that it has very little to do with the "broad-spectrum" goo.

The great thing with all of this is that it means you won't have to work out what to do with a bunch of waste zinc hydroxide afterwards.

 

[Angelic]

Thanks for chiming in

So I’ve had some trouble yet finding the link that describes the acidification step in regards to dmt n-oxide. Being new to learning to navigate the site doesn’t help much lol. I’m still not certain if a combination of diff acids are needed nor how long the acidification step needs to be for the conversion to be complete

STB doesn’t have an acidification step however..?

Great information thank you

 

[Transform]

Part of the zinc treatment would entail adding acid for the reduction to occur, but the main thing is you almost certainly don't have DMT-N-oxide. Coloured goo is now understood to be polymeric material, which can be depolymerised during the acid step of a mini A/B.

 

[Transform]

Possible Oligomers/Polymers of DMT

UPDATE 2023: This thread now also includes some experiments that were conducted, added after that theoretical ideas. But the first analyze of the Spectra had an error: DMT-N-Oxide was mistaken with the DMSO-Signal. That gave a wrong amount of signals which would have indicated a polymerization...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Transform]

Chemical Guide to classic Psychedelics (DMT, 5-MeO-", Mescaline, Harmalas, Salvinorin A, ...)

This is a Compilation of chemical properties of the Nexus' members most common molecules to come across. Not all are Psychedelics, but some are just other imporant molecules or derivates. People searching the internet for temperatures to evaporate DMT or similar compounds will quickly stumble...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Angelic]

Part of the zinc treatment would entail adding acid for the reduction to occur, but the main thing is you almost certainly don't have DMT-N-oxide. Coloured goo is now understood to be polymeric material, which can be depolymerised during the acid step of a mini A/B.

Ahhh you beat me to it lol, I was gonna say if a guy did a mini AB after a STB how long should he heat the acid solution for?

It makes a lot of sense to heat it regardless to ensure all solvent traces are gone before adding your base.

Lovealls post about 5% acetic acid ,citric acid, and vinegar stirred for 12hrs makes a guy wonder does the ph need to be lower than 4 with whatever acid used to ensure conversion of polymers ect?

 

[Ernestine]

If there are no oils and waxes in the extracts, only polymers and oligomers, what's the oily waxy stuff that builds up on an emesh after the dmt is vapourised?

I have some dissolved in methanol from soaking my mesh for cleaning. Would anyone like to test it?

 

[Transform]

If there are no oils and waxes in the extracts, only polymers and oligomers, what's the oily waxy stuff that builds up on an emesh after the dmt is vapourised?

I have some dissolved in methanol from soaking my mesh for cleaning. Would anyone like to test it?

The DMT can polymerise (again) after depolymerisation [such as via mini A/B], but the identity of the residue may also depend on the origins of your material along with your usage patterns. Samples of hobbyist psychonaut origin may well contain traces of less-volatile impurities, although analyses of MHRB-derived, freeze-precipitated DMT have typically shown a relatively high purity, with 2-MTH-β-C (kind of a cyclised version of DMT) being the greatly preponderating secondary component.

Have you tried evaporating your methanol solution from the e-mesh cleaning and assessing its potency? Maybe after a mini A/B, to be a bit more sure that it's something with (some) properties broadly resembling DMT? Or would you prefer suggestions for a laboratory analysis, which may well be more informative in the long run?

Take a look in the resources section of this site:

Substance Testing - Kykeon Analytics

Harm Reduction Analysis Kykeon Analytics is a public service initiative that provides analytical solutions for harm reduction in the field of newly emerging chemical entities. We work with users and organizations. We create spectral libraries...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

may fit the bill, although iirc you'd need to send a solid sample (no liquids).

 

[Ernestine]

I've tried vapourising it prior to cleaning but it just burns and stinks.

I also have some goo that is collected by running dmt in pg through a micron filter which could be tested to see if it's polymeric dmt or similar, or non alkaloid plant extract.

 

[Transform]

I've tried vapourising it prior to cleaning but it just burns and stinks.

I also have some goo that is collected by running dmt in pg through a micron filter which could be tested to see if it's polymeric dmt or similar, or non alkaloid plant extract.

Might be best to mini A/B it before another attempt.

 

[Ernestine]

Might be best to mini A/B it before another attempt.

I certainly won't. It's horrible and had no psychoactive effect.

 

[Transform]

I certainly won't. It's horrible and had no psychoactive effect.

This could be on account of it simply burning, if it's polymerised material. Since you were asking about its identity anyhow, you could at least see if it dissolves in acidic water, and if so check if/how it precipitates with base.

Or it could indeed just be useless crap