STEAM extration!!

[mickster003]

hey all i have this idea for a new tek ...

it involves a basic set up similar so a steamer where you use mhrb instead of vegies and you use a filter to avoid contaminated the water below...

now the idea is to remove the actives from the bark with a continuouse flow of clean steam into the powder or bark... allowing the bark to soak and drip below back into the more and more concentrated water.

once this has steeped for lets say 48 hours or so on high in a slow cooker.

remove the minimal amount of water that was used..

and evaporate the water.... should'nt take to long.. there are ways.
next take the remaining sludge or wtv and heat until freebase is formed.


........

would it have to be converted to acetate b4 it would heat out to a freebase?

 

[Madcap]

That acetate to freebase vis heating thing has proven to be a little "iffy" for some people.

I'm not sure that it could be pulled off with a crock pot but I believe that what you are writing about doing is close to the way a soxhlet works.

The end result would be a concentrated extract of mimosa. You would still need to do an A/B extraction on that solution to get the goods separated from the rest of the crud in the plant.

 

[vampir]

That acetate to freebase vis heating thing has proven to be a little "iffy" for some people.

I'm not sure that it could be pulled off with a crock pot but I believe that what you are writing about doing is close to the way a soxhlet works.

The end result would be a concentrated extract of mimosa. You would still need to do an A/B extraction on that solution to get the goods separated from the rest of the crud in the plant.

HMMM! An A/B tek would be MUCH easier to do on concentrated extract than on a crapload of root bark. This would seem like a very nice solution to larger scale extractions. Throw in 1kg of plant material, make the extract, and then perform the tek on the extract - would take way less room, be less messy!

 

[Madcap]

eh... a classic A/B would take less work. You do the same thing really the only difference is the steam. In a marsofold, the plant matter is extracted by soaking it in heated acidic water. You filter then reduce. You end up with a concentrated mimosa solution just like here.

If you are trying it out...post results.

 

[mickster003]

thanks for the reply's

I was doing more re-searching online and found than tannic acid is more readily bonded to sodium chloride versus the DMT, this could be useful to remove free floating tannins maybe..... i don't know the chemist lingo but thats what i got from it.-plz dont take my word and ruin ur spice!


in my concentrated mixture i will have DMT Tannate, supposedly...

 

[endlessness]

addition of salt will precipitate freebase dmt? I dont think you got that right.. Please quote your sources when talking about chemistry information you read on the internet.

As madcap said, I think you will just have an acqueous solution with your dmt, from which you're gonna have to extract it just like you extract like in any A/B. It might be the steam is very effective in pulling dmt and doesnt pull so much inactives so that you have a cleaner dmt-ladden solution, or it could be that it also pulls together inactives effectively too, or it could be that it doesnt pull dmt very well.. Only testing will tell, so do tell us the results if you try it out!

 

[D_Juggz]

I think its a great Idea, i've heard of another guy who has done it successfully, if i hear from him i'll post how he did it. Would be interested to know how it goes.
endlessness is right, you will need to basify afterwards and pull with naptha or whatever solvent u want to use.
also, use powdered bark, it will be much more efficient, and turn it up full.

 

[mickster003]

thanks and yes I will post as soon as SWIM knows..

SWIM has filtered both pulls through a bamboo filter and packed tight organic cotton-ball..

SWIM will evap the second pull in the morning and post results tomorrow night, in the end if SWIM has to basify then SWIM believes as a tannate form that calcium would bond nicely and aid in precipitation... so SWIM would have to chose calcium hydroxide as a base and them limo pull.

!also going to try a egg white/geletine pull of the tannins to isolate the dmt crystals...then i think a cold finger is going to be ending this somehow...

 

[mickster003]

the left over plant material seemed to have nothing left, when left in a hot soak then SWIM left settle and water was clear slightly dark brown tint, due to some floaties still because it was pre-powdered mhrb,or possibly tannins remaining so im going to do a egg white test on it to see if it does remove them.........
-after egg white test solution turned purple-ish pink. then SWIM reduced and evapped down to another hard brown blob, bigger than the other two, slightly (not weighable at moment). SWIM will do test on this blob b4 redissolving the first two blobs in water and egg white testing them.

such tests include;
-making a dose of ayauasca, SWIM has cappi leaf.
-trying a fumurate to freebase teck



SWIM hopes that on the active jar pull it will remove tannins, in a hot water bath causing tannins to be removed and float to top bonded to egg, with the dmt sinking to the bottom of the jar as precipitate. or at least pure dmt-tannate with no tannic acid in solution, this could then be smoked with ease or at least more easily freebased, maybe with heat method..\
.

And the left overs of SWIMS a/b are being flushed out with water in a milk jug, SWIM filled to top with filtered water then let sit for 8 hours min then decanted ... this seems to purify of all lye but not the tannins, after a number not decided yet of water purges, SWIM will evap the water down and try smoke/vaping.

 

[mickster003]

i got the salt thing from wikip looking through tannins and linking on important words ... cant remember how i got to that assumption... more of a wild theory slightly worth investigating if someone has spare material which SWIM seams to

(not really this is SWIMS last batch... SWIM just did'nt like the trips of the stb tek/ and SWIMS a/b dont seem to yield fakc all )

Im SWIMS personal resercher


THIS IS GOOD

 

[mickster003]

here it is essentially so far.

[edit: teck in progress removed due to lack of results]

......................
also assuming at this point after an egg white wash, this would be ideal for an aywausca brew.
...................
10. possibilities... remove tannate with -SALT-/-ALUM-/-EGG-Whites-/GELetine
each of which I wonder if precipitates will form without basification.
or basify and purge with water
or do a classic stb after this
unsure still about wethor nessesary or not to filter, i believe this method would over concentrate the water allowing precipitates to form at room temp. so i wouldn't want to filter out actives. it all depends if your satisfied with the initial filter in the steam pot or not.

 

[mickster003]

replace fumurate with tannate and i think it will work the same.

Nontoxic Hasty Freebase Spice Conversion - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

[edit: swim followed this with pull 3 and found no reaction. ]

 

[mickster003]

so far SWIM has found no evidence that the goodies have come through during the steam teck exept for the gf pointing out the smell of dmt when swim was doing vap tests.

SWIM tested

3rd pull .. placed in shot glass and tried to dissolve in [edit:sodium carbonate]... would not! (didn`t try long)

1st pull.. did a STB teck dissolved in lye fine and then trie three pulls with naptha..... so far no luck, been in freezer for 20 min in shot-glass

2nd pull .. swim tried a piece of the brown chunk in the oil pipe....(NO success) just bubbled and grew then stopped.
-still waiting for test.

Ab .. SWIM took the ab leftovers and flushed with enough water to clear solution with adaquit time to settle and then decant.
SWIM did this several times.

-this is now drying on glass plate, looks kinda gelly, seperate from water, swim did ph test to be sure.
-SWIM did changa test with cappi b4 full evap, stirred untill dry(no success)
-SWIM did a test on dried material(red) in tobacco oil pipe, (No success)

 

[endlessness]

A few comments: You shouldnt be so sure about DMT tannate, this is only speculation that dmt is naturally in tannate form because of the presence of tannins/tannic acid, but there might be other acids, and AFAIK there has been no publication thus far regarding what form DMT is naturally in mimosa (though by its properties its pretty obvious its indeed in salt form)

Another thing, there are many examples of how certain alkaloids cannot be vaporized when it salt form, they often have a very high boiling point and/or destroy before vaporizing. Im not sure if this is the case with whatever form dmt is in mimosa, but its possible, so maybe thats why just trying to smoke the brown chunk doesnt result in anything

Also, what do you mean by 'dissolved in lye'? What exactly did you do? Its not dissolving in lye that you should do to extract that, its redissolving in fresh water and then adding lye/base afterwards to freebase. The colour of the liquid will change as dmt freebases, and then you can try extracting. But if you're going to redissolve in water, no need to dry it all the way in the first place, thats just wasted energy. As for the fact that the naphtha-extracted stuff is in the freezer for 20 mins, thats too little time, you need many hours. Also maybe you used too much naphtha so its not saturated enough..? Or maybe this 'redissolving in lye' is the mistake, please explain what did you do and what exactly happened.

Another thing, you say that the egg white will remove tannate, what makes you think that? One thing is removal of free tannins in a solution, the other is removing the ion that is bonded with dmt, which is a completely different thing. I dont think it will work but maybe some of our chem experts can give their opinions here.

And then you say to make the freebase conversion as in the wiki, but did you try it out and did it work? because otherwise you shouldnt post as if it does before its actually tried out. (also its FumArate, not fumurate, sorry for the nitpick)

Lastly, I suggest against making a 'tek' before you even know it works. Keep experimenting if you want, sharing results, im thankful for your spirit! But please dont spread out information as if its true if it doesnt (yet?) work and if there are flaws in the chemistry reasoning.

 

[mickster003]

apologies, i made some edits along this thread.

i appreciate your comments 'endlessness'
the lye swim used was a solution he had from earlyer extractions, and the 3rd pull was actually mixed with sodium carbonate, swim followed the tek posted.
and I agree that i thought and SWIM believes it may have only removed the free floating tannins.

i think there is still something too the steam ,
hypothetical
(perhaps it removes all the impurities from plant leaving the clean plant and actives, maybe this is just an efficient way to condense ur initial a/b extract with easy filtration. either way SWIM will continue to find a way to make this work.)
swim will continue tests on product with toluene when swim gets paid