Strange fumaric acid quality problem

[sleepermustawaken]

Hi, I am having weirdness happen to my fumaric acid.

It is labeled as a pure product and is a semi-white transluscent crystal powder form.

It won't dissolve in water unless I turn up the heat in which case all of it dissolves but as I am heating it... all of this white goo seems to evaporate all around the pot and vent fan!

This goes on for an hour and then I evaporate the water and I am left with ultra-pure looking crystal clear crystals.

Wat is the white stuff?

fyi - I have made dmt-fumarate from it and the white stuff is easily wipable with a damp cloth.

 

[sleepermustawaken]

Anyone?

 

[sleepermustawaken]

If anyone would like to help uncover the mystery and try to add a little of their fumaric acid to some boiling water and see if the same thing happends I would appreciate it, thanks!

 

[FLeP]

Just dumped some of my fumaric acid into boiling water. No goo was observed. I'll try boiling it for a little bit while stirring and update this post in an hour.

edit: My fumaric acid dissolves readily in boiling water. Nothing that you have described was observed.

 

[sleepermustawaken]

Just dumped some of my fumaric acid into boiling water. No goo was observed. I'll try boiling it for a little bit while stirring and update this post in an hour.

edit: My fumaric acid dissolves readily in boiling water. Nothing that you have described was observed.

Oh...

Now I am more apprehensive about doing IV/IM shots with it. Perhaps the white stuff is safe for veins though! :shock:

Thanks anyway FLeP!

 

[cyb]

Now I am more apprehensive about doing IV/IM shots with it. Perhaps the white stuff is safe for veins though! :shock:

You better be joking kid...

From what I've read, you can't extract and you don't know much about DMT at all.

If you're looking to kill yourself, kindly do it on another site. :!:

 

[sleepermustawaken]

Now I am more apprehensive about doing IV/IM shots with it. Perhaps the white stuff is safe for veins though! :shock:

You better be joking kid...

From what I've read, you can't extract and you don't know much about DMT at all.

If you're looking to kill yourself, kindly do it on another site. :!:

From what you've read? I was using seawater, that was responsible for low yields. I have done over 10 extracts and have had success. You jump to conclusions. Why even post such a comment?

It seems the only type of personality that would want to post something like that is narcisistic or vindictive in some way. i suggest you take a look at your attitude.

"If you're looking to kill yourself, kindly do it on another site."

Jesus, have you read the attitude section here?

 

[cyb]

If you are trying to make fumarates for the purposes if IV you need to know that anything but clinical grade/lab tested dmt is dicing with death or serious complications.

It seems the only type of personality that would want to post something like that is narcisistic or vindictive in some way.

Now who's jumping to conclusions...

Moderating this site is done for the safety and wellbeing of all our members and onlookers. (we don't suffer fools...)

 

[0110101001100011]

Perhaps cyb did come across a little strong. But he is extremely knowledgable in all matters dmt and he does raise a very important point.
Injecting the dmt you extract at home is most likely going to result in serious health implications or even death.
It is extremely hard with home equipment, and limited chemistry knowledge, to extract a pure enough product fit for IV or IM injection.

 

[sleepermustawaken]

If you are trying to make fumarates for the purposes if IV you need to know that anything but clinical grade/lab tested dmt is dicing with death or serious complications.

Yes I have spent many hours reading up on this, yet again you assume I haven't. The need for purity you speak of while being very healthy is mostly a myth.

Have you not seen what junkies shoot in to their arms? Black tar heroin! Black tar heroin. A few people on bluelight and one or two on the nexus concluded that purity (7 washes) isn't paramount and felt that slightly impure dmt salts were a whole lot better than dirty meth/heroin and as you notice our bodies are incredibly resiliant and those junkies still continue to exist. I agree with this, I also feel people who do not choose IV talking about how purity is essential is not talking from experience just an informed opinion. We use wheel filters and we survive! That is our motto

It seems the only type of personality that would want to post something like that is narcisistic or vindictive in some way.

Now who's jumping to conclusions...

I didn't make a conclussion, I said it 'seemed' that it was that way. Which it does, there is a certain ettiquite in approaching these matters and describing in the way you did is most callous and disrespectful. I especially didn't expect that from a seasoned member.

 

[sleepermustawaken]

Injecting the dmt you extract at home is most likely going to result in serious health implications or even death.
It is extremely hard with home equipment, and limited chemistry knowledge, to extract a pure enough product fit for IV or IM injection.

Well I haven't see any evidence put forth in the multitude of threads I have spent countless hours reading on it on various forums including the nexus, it just seemed like a few people who are scared someone will overdose with a needle in their arm, be caught and bring unwanted attention to dmt and the dmt-nexus. I reiterate, I did not see any evidence for how the impurities of homemade pure extracted spice could result in 'serious health issues' or even that word you used... 'death'

It therefor currently 'seems' that your claim is unfounded that one is unable to make injectable quality dmt-fumarate at home. Many users have done it in the past and have not had issues. It isn't for everyone and granted they were normally the sort of people that dabbled or had a history with injectibles nonetheless I don't see where your evidence is. Is it tannins in the blood stream? Not many tannins in white dmt-fumarate, not enough to worry about anyway. Is it contaminated product like lye in dmt-fumarate? impossible with such careful extractions. Is it bad quality fumaric acid??? BINGO that is what this thread is about jayrocco!

 

[endlessness]

Yes I have spent many hours reading up on this, yet again you assume I haven't. The need for purity you speak of while being very healthy is mostly a myth.

Have you not seen what junkies shoot in to their arms? Black tar heroin! Black tar heroin. A few people on bluelight and one or two on the nexus concluded that purity (7 washes) isn't paramount and felt that slightly impure dmt salts were a whole lot better than dirty meth/heroin and as you notice our bodies are incredibly resiliant and those junkies still continue to exist. I agree with this, I also feel people who do not choose IV talking about how purity is essential is not talking from experience just an informed opinion. We use wheel filters and we survive! That is our motto

That is bad logic though. Just because some people survive the injection of some dirty heroin or other doesn't mean it is safe, also doesn't mean all people will survive all injections of all sorts of dirty heroins. Also does not mean injecting DMT will be safe, or that both things are necessarily equivalent.

Well I didn't see any evidence put forth in the multitude of threads I read on it on various forums including the nexus, it just seemed like a few people who are scared someone will overdose with a needle in their arm, be caught and bring unwanted attention to dmt and the dmt-nexus. Moreover I did not see any evidence for how the impurities of pure extracted spice could result in 'serious health issues' or even that word you used... 'death'

What evidence are you looking for? If it's statistics or case reports of problems with injecting DMT, that's gonna be hard to find even if there were considering so few people inject DMT.

As for particular impurities from extracted spice, here is a list of substances that could potentially be in spice depending how much you cleaned up, the chemicals used and if clean up steps were performed:

- caustic soda
- non-polar solvent remains
- rust-inhibitors or other additives to impure hardware/OTC solvents
- excess acid (fumaric, hcl, whatever was used)

This could be in different amounts. There are clean up steps and sourcing cares one could take, which would make sure those impurities are eliminated, but it has to be done consciously, one needs a plan and not just extract whatever one extracted in any way and consider its safe just because "heroin users seem to survive dirty needles"

Then there are the issues regarding the setting and potential accidents. If you are doing it by yourself, hurting yourself with a needle that you forgot to pull out or put too close to you after, while in hyperspace, that doesn't seem like a good story. So what is being done to avoid that? Trip sitter? Any other ideas?


Instead of taking a stance of exclusively combating other people's posts, you could also try to build some bridges here. Is there anything you recognize in these people's posts that is reasonable? Why do you think they worry, and is there any way you can address their concerns looking at it from their perspective? That way it doesn't become an A vs B discussion but rather a A+B vs the problem kind of discussion

 

[sleepermustawaken]

What evidence are you looking for? If it's statistics or case reports of problems with injecting DMT, that's gonna be hard to find even if there were considering so few people inject DMT.

As for particular impurities from extracted spice, here is a list of substances that could potentially be in spice depending how much you cleaned up, the chemicals used and if clean up steps were performed:

- caustic soda
- non-polar solvent remains
- rust-inhibitors or other additives to impure hardware/OTC solvents
- excess acid (fumaric, hcl, whatever was used)

This could be in different amounts. Now, considering that, there are clean up steps and sourcing cares which could make sure none of those are there, but it has to be done consciously.

Then there are the behavioral/effects worry. If you are doing it by yourself, hurting yourself with a needle that you forgot to pull out or put too close to you after, while in hyperspace, doesn't seem like a good story. So what is being done to avoid that? Trip sitter? What else?

Instead of taking a stance of exclusively combating other people's posts, you could also try to build some bridges here. Is there anything you recognize in these people's posts that is reasonable? Why do you think they worry, and is there any way you can address their concerns looking at it from their perspective? That way it doesn't become an A vs B discussion but rather a A+B vs the problem kind of discussion

The danger of impurities is dramaticly minimal if you as you say do the clean up steps consciously and know for sure that you have clean dmt-fumarate. For that matter though if you ate dmt-fumarate that supposedly contains any of those impurities in the list you mentioned you would have serious health issues and feel sick just the same as injecting.

Has anyone? Not that I have heard. Then we could conclude that it would be ranked on a similar scale of safety eating as injecting pure spice. Yes the kidneys are removed from the equation but the chemicals are still going to be in the bloodstream when eaten too. Excess fumaric acid is only a problem with IM injections as it causes more pain to the muscle.

Also injection times and hyperspace are off, especially with a tornique on during injection. Hyperspace comes well after injection from the reports I have read so it doesn't seem a worry, the worry is the shock of sudden onset and making an accident with needle which is still not much of a worry at all. It takes approx 5 seconds to inject and starts coming on in 3 seconds.

All I am saying is this excessive worry that I seem to see everyone have is unfounded with evidence and for those like me who don't like to smoke and like a shorter duration than aya or just like the clean feeling of pure dmt then this ROA is a valid option and shouldn't be shunned away by scared people who don't have health reports. I see their point of view, it may be risky if noobs try it out but most people who get to this situation who have usable dmt and are prepared to inject mostly know what the heck they are doing.

 

[cyb]

most people who get to this situation who have usable dmt and are prepared to inject mostly know what the heck they are doing.

That is extremely naive

'Most' people don't know much at all and will jack almost anything if they can get a buzz.

You have your point of view...but be aware that a lot of people read these pages. Harm reduction is paramount here and recklessness is not tolerated.

 

[sleepermustawaken]

most people who get to this situation who have usable dmt and are prepared to inject mostly know what the heck they are doing.

That is extremely naive

'Most' people don't know much at all and will jack almost anything if they can get a buzz.

You have your point of view...but be aware that a lot of people read these pages. Harm reduction is paramount here and recklessness is not tolerated.

Well I suppose you are correct, I do not see what is going on in the rest of society. I just understand that DMT is very rare and majority of those who have it are those who made it and if they made it then they know about purity and if they bought it then I think also majority know about purity to some extent. Also anyone who didn't manufacture it and ate it would I assume be at a similar level of risk as if they injected it (need doctors opinion here). Anyway this isn't about so called others, it's about people who know dmt and it's purity and want to see the evidence of health problems with clean homemade dmt-fumarate in the veins.

I just feel this ROA is being overlooked because of irrational fear.

 

[endlessness]

The danger of impurities is dramaticly minimal if you as you say do the clean up steps consciously and know for sure that you have clean dmt-fumarate.

Yet you didnt help us know that this is the case for you. All we see is that you ask questions which show you are not a chemist or an expert on it. Which is no problem per se, you dont have to be, but then dont be surprised if people react strongly when they see someone who might not have any clue what he is doing, talking about ingesting dmt in a potentially unsafe manner.

For that matter though if you ate dmt-fumarate that supposedly contains any of those impurities in the list you mentioned you would have serious health issues and feel sick just the same as injecting.

You don't know that. We know for a fact that route of ingestion can greatly change the absorption and metabolism of different chemicals, why are you assuming that this isn't the case with impurities?

With the stomach you'd have a barrier before a substance is absorbed. The stomach would neutralize any base for example, wouldn't make it to the blood. Also people dissolve DMT in acidic solution before ingesting so excess base wouldnt be a problem. As for excess acid, well people are just dissolving in orange or lemon juice so that's not overly acidic, and the stomach/gastrointestinal tract is ready for such pH. On the other hand, I don't think it would be very safe to directly inject IV some excess base or excess acid, depending on amounts or the specific base or acid.

As for rust inhibitors or other potential additives, we'd have to look case by case to see what is the toxicity and metabolism like to know. But generally either way IVing substance, due to the fast onset and sharp peak, may be even more toxic than ingesting at the same dosage. And we also are very adamant about reminding people to be careful when ingesting substances in other ROA regarding such impurities, look at the FAQ and amount of threads on the subject

Also injection times and hyperspace are off, especially with a tornique on during injection. Hyperspace comes well after injection from the reports I have read so it doesn't seem a worry, the worry is the shock of sudden onset and making an accident with needle which is still not much of a worry at all. It takes approx 5 seconds to inject and starts coming on in 3 seconds.

Whether it "seems" or "doesn't seem" a worry seems like a subjective decision you are taking. The point is not whether you are worried, but whether care is being taken eliminate those possibilities and whether you are expressing it in a clear way for the people in this community which are the people reading your posts.

Also you need to consider that every post is an 'example' to someone who may know less than you. Are you making sure these less informed people are getting the full information not to do something misinformed and dangerous themselves?

I still think that it's way safer at least for first times that one does with a sitter, to know how you react, how long it takes to hit, if you move around too much, if you can get dangerously close to the needle during the effects, etc..

All I am saying is this excessive worry that I seem to see everyone have is unfounded with evidence and for those like me who don't like to smoke and like a shorter duration than aya or just like the clean feeling of pure dmt then this ROA is a valid option and shouldn't be shunned away by scared people who don't have health reports. I see their point of view, it may be risky if noobs try it out but most people who get to this situation who have usable dmt and are prepared to inject mostly know what the heck they are doing.

For the reasons stated earlier I do not think worry is unfounded neither excessive, but I do think people can express themselves in friendlier way regarding the subject.

Did you consider anal use? It's also shorter duration than oral and should be fine without harmalas, though I haven't tried myself.

I do think that any ROA is valid if the person is careful and informed and so on. But each ROA has it's own characteristics that must be considered and talk about, which is exactly what we're doing here.

As for "most people know what the heck they are doing", that is a big assumption, since you don't know many others in the same position, do you? What if most people don't know what the heck they are doing and to assume they do is to potentially lead them into accidents? What is the amount of work that needs to be done to express safety concerns and be clear on safety measures (and the possible advantages of doing that), versus the work saved by assuming they already know and not explaining (and the possible dangers) ? How much work does it take to argue about how one is right and it's all safe (and the benefits), and how much work would it be to take a look at the FAQ IV entry and help improving the IV safety guidelines or building more information on the subject in general?

Sunshine time, trees are calling me 8)

 

[sleepermustawaken]

Thanks endlessness.

 

[pitubo]

Nobody points out the need for sterility??

Look sleepermustawaken, for iv roa you need not only medical-grade ingredients, but also sterile materials, sterile equipment and sterile technique. And supervision.

From what I have been reading on the forum, you have none of these, not even an awarenes of the need of these, let alone practical knowledge of how to attain these. You really have no idea how hard, and how costly, these things are to get right.

For heavens sake, I half-jokingly suggest in some other thread that you reflux a gram of dmt in concentrated hydrochloric acid and the next day I come back to the forum to read to my astonishment that you've wrecked a teflon cooking pan in your kitchen by boiling hydrochloric acid in it with more than a gram of dmt. If you do that again I'm going to hold you liable for all the coffee sprayed onto my computer screen.

On a positive note, you are showing signs of learning a lot here. If you can keep up the steep learning curve for a year, I reckon that you would be able to make an independent risk assessment. If you keep it up for 5 years, you might be able to reason at the level of some of the moderators. In the mean time, if knowledgeable people (and the Attitude page) tell you it's no good, maybe that's the time to lay off and do more homework, instead of argueing.

I mean it.

 

[pitubo]

And I don't want to come back to the forum tomorrow only to read that "mah boi" sleepermustawaken has died from injecting teflon fragments into his veins.

 

[Nereus]

Just out of curiosity,don't mind me barging in,but regarding ones set,how would a hyperspace experience evolve knowing you just had a needle in your hand?Wouldn't that trigger unwanted thought processes along the way?I wouldn't do it..just out of a principle.I think i'd associate the exp. too much with drug use/abuse...my entheogenic notion would be contaminated to some extent that's for sure.