Sublingual harmala dosage for vaporhuasca breakthrough?

[yatyas314]

Sakkadelic pointed out to me that the freebase harmalas taste much more 'agreeable' than the salt form... I was using the salt form for a while and granted I was doing larger than necessary sublingual doses but I was really like how do people do this? The freebase harmalas are definitely much less disgusting.

I have 5 G freebase will try 50mg either sublingual or in a cap and report back.

 

[yatyas314]

Sakkadelic pointed out to me that the freebase harmalas taste much more 'agreeable' than the salt form... I was using the salt form for a while and granted I was doing larger than necessary sublingual doses but I was really like how do people do this? The freebase harmalas are definitely much less disgusting.

Well freebase is what ended up coming, did you ever vade the freebase or did you always use the sublingual route?

 

[Varallo]

Both will work, but 50 mg will only work for sublingual administration, it is not enough for oral activation.

 

[yatyas314]

Both will work, but 50 mg will only work for sublingual administration, it is not enough for oral activation.

Thank you for the feedback we are all saying the same thing on a three digit scale .050. I always see the dosage of the DMs anf Harmala as mg but we are all saying .0mg

 

[isntme]

I currently store the hcl variant. This should be active sublingual (besides the taste), right?
I'm thinking about converting back to freebase and storing that. Kepping it with a silica and zinc package should be fine. What do you think?

 

[DM3]

I currently store the hcl variant. This should be active sublingual (besides the taste), right?
I'm thinking about converting back to freebase and storing that. Kepping it with a silica and zinc package should be fine. What do you think?

Freebase is better for sublingual use. You can convert it.
Why use a zinc package? A silica sack should work well, but I don't use that either. It's never been a problem harmala is still active as if it were fresh.

 

[isntme]

The zinc is for oxygene. I use it with dmt.

 

[Varallo]

Freebase is better for sublingual use. You can convert it.
Why use a zinc package? A silica sack should work well, but I don't use that either. It's never been a problem harmala is still active as if it were fresh.

Actually that is very debatable since freebase does not dissolve in saliva as well and is therefore less likely to be absorbed.

Personally I prefer to use the acetate and HCL for sublingual dosing as they perform much better than the freebase version.

 

[isntme]

Actually that is very debatable since freebase does not dissolve in saliva as well and is therefore less likely to be absorbed.

Personally I prefer to use the acetate and HCL for sublingual dosing as they perform much better than the freebase version.

just finished conversion to freebase

 

[Varallo]

Well acetate is now an option by taking your freebase in your mouth and ad a drop of vinegar and see if it’s for you.

Better yet keep notes on your experiences and see how the freebase performs against different salts, and report back, we can then all learn, by you sharing, and thereby expand

 

[isntme]

Yes, i was also thinking that adding some acid may work. Perhaps also lemon. Then resembles a bit my mushroom approach

So far I can report that swallowing 25mg HCl did not work. Will test freebase next, sublingual and probably 40mg.

 

[DM3]

Actually that is very debatable since freebase does not dissolve in saliva as well and is therefore less likely to be absorbed.

Personally I prefer to use the acetate and HCL for sublingual dosing as they perform much better than the freebase version.

Debatable. The taste of HCl is worse, and I feel 20 mg of freebase very well. In the end, it dissolves in saliva, probably due to enzymes or a slightly acidic reaction.

I mean, it definitely works great, the base helps with absorption too, which is why people use calcium lime when chewing coca leaves.
People use calcium hydroxide when chewing coca leaves to enhance the absorption of the active alkaloids, particularly cocaine. The lime raises the pH in the mouth, creating a more alkaline environment. This alkaline condition helps to free the cocaine alkaloid from its salt form, making it more readily absorbable through the mucous membranes in the mouth.
I believe harmala freebase is absorbed better.

 

[isntme]

Ok, we'll see

 

[Varallo]

Debatable. The taste of HCl is worse, and I feel 20 mg of freebase very well. In the end, it dissolves in saliva, probably due to enzymes or a slightly acidic reaction.

I mean, it definitely works great, the base helps with absorption too, which is why people use calcium lime when chewing coca leaves.
People use calcium hydroxide when chewing coca leaves to enhance the absorption of the active alkaloids, particularly cocaine. The lime raises the pH in the mouth, creating a more alkaline environment. This alkaline condition helps to free the cocaine alkaloid from its salt form, making it more readily absorbable through the mucous membranes in the mouth.
I believe harmala freebase is absorbed better.

This paper underlines the reason why I think it’s debatable. For harmalas the limiter is dissolution, not pH-dependent ionisation, so the free-base is not automatically better absorbed.

 

[blig-blug]

A silica sack should work well, but I don't use that either. It's never been a problem harmala is still active as if it were fresh.

Do you live in a dry climate? I live in a humid climate, and stored harmala freebase some days ago in a ziploc bag with no desiccant and it was starting to form some "harmala red", which I assume is not active.

 

[Ruffles]

This paper underlines the reason why I think it’s debatable. For harmalas the limiter is dissolution, not pH-dependent ionisation, so the free-base is not automatically better absorbed.

I would argue that the freebase not easily dissolving in saliva may be a good thing, you rub it in a spot under the tongue and it stays in contact with the mucosa longer instead of dissolving, this creating a high concentration spot that may help with absorption. It inevitably converts to salt form.

 

[isntme]

I don't know about vaporhuasca, but I use sublingual FB harmalas for psilohuasca and it works perfectly in 20-30mg dose for that.

May I ask how you adapt the mushroom dosage when using harmalas?

 

[doubledog]

I use 50-60% of usual dose of mushrooms. For me, psilohuasca is so superior to shrooms alone that I no longer use them without caapi harmalas.

I am quite surprised by the debate about sublingual absorption of freebase, my experience is that it absorbs very quickly and starts to work in minutes.

 

[isntme]

Ok, thanks. I'll report on freebase from rue hopefully soon.
Do you extract from caapi leaves?
And maybe offtopic: you stated in another thread that you like especially 3 strains for psilohuasca but not the cubensis so much. Can you describe what the difference is / what makes you dislike cubensis?

 

[doubledog]

I use alkaloids extracted directly from vine, but I also extracted caapi leaves (never used leaves extract for psilohuasca).
Freebase from leaves has slight adstringent taste, which is not present in caapi vine extract.

Various mushrooms differ in clarity of experience, body load, propensity for CEV and other characteristics, which are quite difficult to describe. It is slighly similar to differences betwen various strains of cannabis.
There is something in cubensis, which could be called 'murkiness' and which I do not like, they also produce more unpleasant body load than other shrooms and also produce less CEV. Imo Cubensis are something like cheap box wine in the world of magic mushrooms.