Sublingual harmala makes tongue tingle?

[mud1]

I took 20 mg of syrian rue extracted harmalas in freebase and was testing the waters. I basically took the powder and wiped it under my tongue. Held it in my mouth for a few minutes but noticed some tingling and now my tongue is kind of numb (but recovering).

I've never taken harmalas so not sure what to expect. Is this a normal part of the experience? I definitely feel a little bit of the head buzz effect so I'm wondering if the tingling is due to some left over chems from the extraction, or maybe the high PH of the freebase is a little caustic on its own.

Thanks!

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Yes, strong oral brews - neutral or slightly acidic - also make my tongue go numb and it recovers within a few minutes.

Harmala alkaloids are far less basic than, say, DMT so there's essentially no risk of caustic effects from a few milligrams of harmala freebase.

Relax and soak up the experience - enjoy the ride, even. But it won't be particularly intense or challenging at 20mg I would think.

 

[mud1]

Yep the "experience" was very light and I only really felt anything for like 1 hour. For me the tongue burning lasted longer. I might consider mixing it with something like orange juice in the future, but would have to balance that out with how bad for my teeth that would be.

That or just smoke the freebase

 

[downwardsfromzero]

What did you use to produce the freebase? Your tongue shouldn't be burning for that long. It could be caustic soda residue. Next time, add a tiny pinch of ascorbic acid powder to your dose of alkaloids, that should sort it out. If not, it means maybe you've a bit of an idiosyncratic reaction to them.

 

[mud1]

Yeah good point, I used the basic tek here: Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

I think to be even more exact, I might try to put the FB in a tiny bit of distilled water (25 g or the least amount I can get it to dissolve in) and add some acid and test with a ph strip to get to 7 so that should make it completely okay to rinse for as long as I want.

You think citric acid would be fine? That's what I have on hand

 

[Sabnock1990]

You wanna make sure that you wash the final extract with water before letting it dry, that's what i do, to make sure there's no residual base in there, i use washing soda though, never had a problem personally. Never felt tongue burning from Harmala/Rue freebased extract.

 

[Loveall]

Slight numbing can happen from the harmalas themselves.

But make sure there is no base in your product like DFZ said. Some people rinse with distilled water until the pH is below a certain point (not sure if a a small amount of harmine is lost this way though). Some rinse with 0.5% sodium carbonate and let that dry (tiny bit of sodium carbonate will be left, doesn't seem to be an issue). Others do the final precipitation with ammonia and final rinses with dilute ammonia, any tiny traces evaporate (this is my particular choice).

I wouldn't adjust the pH with an acid. You may bring harmalas into solution and lose product.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Probably the most sensible option during harmala extraction is, as Loveall says, to use ammonia for basing the harmalas prior to the stage where they will be consumed. That way, any excess will evaporate, rather than leaving a residue as alkali metal bases do. Following this logic, you could rinse your final product with aqueous ammonia a couple of times.

If you're doing a pH test, test the product that you have as it is by adding a drop of water to a small sample. Allow a little time for any alkali residue to dissolve, then test the drop with your pH strip. Make sure any surfaces and apparatus are free from contamination with acids or bases!

 

[mud1]

Some rinse with 0.5% sodium carbonate and let that dry (tiny bit of sodium carbonate will be left, doesn't seem to be an issue).

Can you explain this process a little more? If I am starting with FB harmalas, how would I do the rinse? Thanks

I wouldn't adjust the pH with an acid. You may bring harmalas into solution and lose product.

Could you explain this more as well? If I add harmalas and acids into distilled water and then drink it all, how would I be losing any harmalas?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Can you explain this process a little more? If I am starting with FB harmalas, how would I do the rinse? Thanks

This process is so simple that I can only remind you of one section of the attitude page, as follow:

Critical thinking and basic autonomy

We try to encourage and expect critical thinking between members. This means one should question one's assumptions and actions, for example seeing if it can impact negatively upon oneself or others around you. We do not want people displaying arguments and trains of thought that are reckless and dangerous, or talking about things that can be a liability. Also one should do basic research before asking and saying things, we do not want to spoon-feed answers. The FAQ and WIKI, the Nexus search function and Google duckduckgo are basic tools everybody should use and should already help prevent the repetition of topics, that convers[at]ion remains superficial and that members have to repetitively respond by pointing to the obvious.

So, please just have a further think about how you might wash a powder of some kind, like sand perhaps.

I wouldn't adjust the pH with an acid. You may bring harmalas into solution and lose product.

Could you explain this more as well? If I add harmalas and acids into distilled water and then drink it all, how would I be losing any harmalas?

Answering on Loveall's behalf here, it looks to me as though there wasa a slight misapprehension; you'd be fine to dissolve your measured dose in a little acid, but if you were cleaning up a batch of harmala base by rinsing then you'd want that water to be alkaline in order to minimise the amount of harmalas that dissolve in the rinsing solution.

 

[mud1]

So, please just have a further think about how you might wash a powder of some kind, like sand perhaps.

Sorry I didn't consider it would be that simple, especially since I've been looking into rinsing teks recently, so I assumed there were more complicated steps. Specifically I was wondering if Loveall meant to repeat steps 10-13 in the guide again.

 

[mud1]

So I ended up giving the acid ph balanced drink a try, note this is not any "final" recipe:
30 mg Harmalas FB
5 mg filtered water
5 mg Topo Chico twist of lime

Used Topo Chico because it conveniently has citric acid and probably some carbonic acid from the bubbles. It also has a nice lime flavor that helps with the bitterness.

Added extra water because I wasn't sure if the liquid was saturated or not. Probably didn't need to do this.

ph was 7 (used strips so it wasn't the most accurate, but it was definitely in between the FB and the Topo).

I swished the liquid in my mouth for 5 min and swallowed. This time there was much less tingling, but for some reason also felt weaker. This kind of makes sense since I'm not wiping powder directly on my gums.

Then I smoked 25 mg FB DMT and the trip lasted like 45 min. Was a good experience, but felt way too fast, but the harmalas definitely did their job since previous similar doses of only DMT barely did anything.

I will definitely take more harmalas next time, but this felt like a very good intro to "changa" (not 100% sure this can be technically be called changa) as I would consider this my first "breakthrough" experience.

 

[doubledog]

My experience is that sublingual harmalas are subjectively 3-5 times stronger than orally taken, so you need less of them.
Some tingling and bitterness is always there, but if properly washed alks are used, it is normal and safe.

 

[starway7]

My experience is that sublingual harmalas are subjectively 3-5 times stronger than orally taken, so you need less of them.
Some tingling and bitterness is always there, but if properly washed alks are used, it is normal and safe.

[the safer reversable MAOI]...sublingual rue... in... seed form.. or extracted form ... free falls through the tissue under the toung

Very quickly...this sublingual path is like a super hiway..straight into the bloodstream...

[ speed of absorbtion might be surpassed only by injection..] ... but no one injects rue...


thats why it feels stronger [but with shorter duration]..than the more .. slower... acidicly destructive... oral route...