SWIM is blown away by the pleiadian explanation of DMT experience

[live]

In the latter days SWIM had many trips. He experienced many different worlds in other dimensions and remembers a lot of details about these worlds. He is trying to integrate the fact that there many worlds which are extremely different from others, but finds it challenging to find or build an appropriate model for that. He asked his subconscious to answer his questions this morning.

This evening, SWIM was clicking around on YouTube just for fun and accidentally found this video:

SWIM have not seen the previous videos yet, thus he is not sure about the context of the speech. But this exact part 14 of 16 in context of DMT experience delivers direct answers! SWIM is blown away by this quick and blatant response!

 

[Dimitrius]

For some reason those videos won't play for me. :?

Edit: Refreshed a few minutes later and it worked.

Aside from the weird voice and visual, it's all pretty good advice.

What grounds me is rather obvious....nature. Breathing the air outside. Feeling the wind. Walking barefooted where possible and safe. Sitting against a tree. Climbing up into trees. Walking down through a stream. Hiking, hiking, hiking....You get the idea...Nature, and whatever activities come about while in nature.

Another thing that grounds me, wherever I am, is ashwagandha, an herb used in Ayurveda for thousands of years. It strengthens my nervous system and body, and provides a sense of serenity and calm......calm mind, strong body. I find I even walk in a more grounded manner with the support of ashwagandha.

I have a tendency towards getting very cerebral if I don't connect with the earth.

 

[Saidin]

Interesting video. Was expecting something directly said about DMT but it is more esoteric.

I personally liked and resonated with the idea about animals as our food. If we feed and care for them, then bring them to slaughter in a compassionate and humane way, this is the way it was meant to be. Their lifeforce, nurtured with caring and love, then nourishes us and creates caring and love in our own existence.

In the last week or so, I have made a conscious effort to thank my food for providing its energy to me so that I can survive. I must consume the lifeforce of other things in order to survive, it is the way of things, and giving thanks to the plant or animal for sustaining me just seems right.

For some reason those videos won't play for me. :?

It took about a minute for it to load for me.

 

[elofer]

"you are the host of the living library"

to me this is the most important thing said, I see many of us at one time or another has had a 'library card' and was able to download huge ammounts of information instantaneously..just imagine if that was as common as cell-phones!!
interesting stuff, the womans voice is very soothing, almost sensual too my ear..the animated version of her though is kinda weird

 

[Chalchiuhtlicue]

Checking the videos associated with pleiadians, I came across this one. Particularly nice illustrations. I am not finished yet with the series, but may have some comments later. I am always skeptical going into something new. But I do like what they're showing on the surface. Nothng new from the viewpoint of metaphysics, and many folks claim to be mainlining the pleiadina energy...but, still, cool so far.
I do like light...

 

[Blundering_Novice]

I personally liked and resonated with the idea about animals as our food. If we feed and care for them, then bring them to slaughter in a compassionate and humane way, this is the way it was meant to be. Their lifeforce, nurtured with caring and love, then nourishes us and creates caring and love in our own existence.

Do you really think the animal views it this way? I've not eaten a bite of animal flesh in 14 years, and I am quite comfortable in the notion that the animal spirits appreciate this. I don't want to get into a big debate about vegetariansim, but don't justify the killing of animals by saying that "this is the way it was meant to be."


Meant to be by whom? Your conscience?

 

[Blundering_Novice]

In fact, I will go one tiny step further and say that eating meat and environmentalism are pretty incompatible. Sure, raising it yourself, or hunting it isnt as environmentally destructive, but its still a HUUUGE unnecessary funneling of resources.

 

[Luciapath]

I heard somewhere that humans used to be natural vegetarians until the ice age forced them to eat meat.. though I can't find that theory anywhere again so perhaps it was wild speculation.

 

[Saidin]

Do you really think the animal views it this way? I've not eaten a bite of animal flesh in 14 years, and I am quite comfortable in the notion that the animal spirits appreciate this. I don't want to get into a big debate about vegetariansim, but don't justify the killing of animals by saying that "this is the way it was meant to be."


Meant to be by whom? Your conscience?

Yes, I belive that both animal and plant spirits accept this if one's intent is focused on thanksgiving.

How do you justify the killing of plants? We MUST kill another lifeform in order to survive. Wouldn't it be better to be thankful and humane in your treatment of the necessities of life, no matter where that life force comes from?

This is the way we evolved...and it is my understanding that the change from a strictly vegetarian diet to one that was much higher in protien was one of the main causes for the increase in our brain size and cortex. Therefore without consuming animals, it is unlikely we would have evolved to the state we are currently in. Thank your meat eating ancestors, and be thankful that in today's world you can choose otherwise.

Your subjective morality dictates that animal life has more value than plant life. Why?

 

[Saidin]

In fact, I will go one tiny step further and say that eating meat and environmentalism are pretty incompatible. Sure, raising it yourself, or hunting it isnt as environmentally destructive, but its still a HUUUGE unnecessary funneling of resources.

How is hunting a funnel of resources? How is it destructive? In many cases hunting, when done properly, is good for the environment as it keeps populations in balance. Look at the Native Americans.

How would raising it myself be a huge waste of resources? They go out, eat grass, they return.

As for environmental destruction, what about fertilizers and pesticides?

 

[live]

More helpful ideas on proper integration of DMT experiences by Terence Mckenna.

He suggests that DMT opens a portal to communication with ancestors and alien beings in another dimensions.
He also mentions some property of DMT molecule which makes it unique on the planet. Because of this property, DMT seems to not be a typical bulding block of nature, because nature tends to reuse its building blocks. From this, a theory arises that DMT is a "calling card" left by our ancestors for us to "phone" home as soon as our technological and spiritual development allows this to happen on a mass scale.

Anyway, listen for youself

 

[Blundering_Novice]

Do you really think the animal views it this way? I've not eaten a bite of animal flesh in 14 years, and I am quite comfortable in the notion that the animal spirits appreciate this. I don't want to get into a big debate about vegetariansim, but don't justify the killing of animals by saying that "this is the way it was meant to be."


Meant to be by whom? Your conscience?

Yes, I belive that both animal and plant spirits accept this if one's intent is focused on thanksgiving.

How do you justify the killing of plants? We MUST kill another lifeform in order to survive. Wouldn't it be better to be thankful and humane in your treatment of the necessities of life, no matter where that life force comes from?

This is the way we evolved...and it is my understanding that the change from a strictly vegetarian diet to one that was much higher in protien was one of the main causes for the increase in our brain size and cortex. Therefore without consuming animals, it is unlikely we would have evolved to the state we are currently in. Thank your meat eating ancestors, and be thankful that in today's world you can choose otherwise.

Your subjective morality dictates that animal life has more value than plant life. Why?

Primarily because animals have a central nervous system, maybe? They writhe and fight when being put to death. When I pick an orange off of a tree, it's pretty clear that nothing was harmed.

Now, lets look at the resources involved. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of pounds of grain and thousands of gallons of water go into making ONE POUND of flesh food? There's nothing even remotely environmentally sound about such a tremendous funnel of resources.

And as far as your idea about how human brains evolved, you do realize that's a theory, dont ya? It is a supposition. There is nothing to indicate that eating flesh caused our brains to grow and evolve as they have.
Cats, lions, and tigers eat more meat than humans do. Why aren't they building Hubble telescopes?

I respect your desire to at least be spiritual about your diet choices. It's better than being a McDonalds customer. But please spare me this nonsense about animals being thankful about being turned into a steak that humans do not need to survive. There is not a single essential amino acid that we cannot synthesize from vegetable/fruit/legume proteins.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

In fact, I will go one tiny step further and say that eating meat and environmentalism are pretty incompatible. Sure, raising it yourself, or hunting it isnt as environmentally destructive, but its still a HUUUGE unnecessary funneling of resources.

How is hunting a funnel of resources? How is it destructive? In many cases hunting, when done properly, is good for the environment as it keeps populations in balance. Look at the Native Americans.

How would raising it myself be a huge waste of resources? They go out, eat grass, they return.

As for environmental destruction, what about fertilizers and pesticides?

Hunting is less of an evil than factory farming, I agree. Destructive? If I shoot you with a bow and arrow and chop you up for a meal I dont need in order to live, I think you'd agree that it is destructive.

Balance?? HAHA! The old 'noble savage' rap. Listen, the imbalance came about when WE killed most of the natural predators to keep OUR livestock safe. See the connection?

No, raising it yourself is not as much a waste. I concede that point. Just don't pretend that the animal enjoys being slain. All living things, particularly animals, want to avoid suffering and pain. people/fish/animals/whatever DO NOT enjoy being killed. You only need spend 2 minutes in an abbatoir to see this for yourself.

It is simple, my friend. We do not require animal protein to survive, or even thrive. To kill another being unnecessarily seems wrong to me. If I am stuck on a deserted island and forced to make a choice, I'm pretty sure I'd kill an animal for food. If I bear attacks me, and I have the means to defend my person, I will. My prime directive is to survive. But I don't live on a deserted island, and I don't get attacked by bears.


Do as you will, but dont EVER pretend that animals wish to become food for us. It's a quaint way of looking at the native americans, but this myth of them existing in perfect harmony with the world around them is just romantic nonsense. Did they do a better job of managing nature than the Eurpoean invaders? I think so. But they were still humans. Fallible. Prone to lusts. Prone to rationalizations. Prone to justifying the murder of animals with ideas about spirit totems and such.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

Let's look at it another way too. How long does it take an animal to reach maturity? A few years. How long does it take a stalk of beans to reach maturity? A few months. Does getting 'food' from the animal destroy the host? yes. Does picking soybeans/hemp seeds/corn destroy the host? no.

Cows are considered to be a good food source because they bear lots of meat as well as milk. What do cows eat? Grass. Do cows magically convert material at the atomic level? No. All the proteins, minerals, and vitamins available in a cow come from it absorbing or synthesizing nutrients from GREEN vegetative matter.

Again, I REALLY DO respect your desire to at least have a spiritual connection to your food. I do. To me, its much more noble than going to McDonalds. But don't delude yourself. You are killing an animal that values its own existence as much as you do, though perhaps in different ways. It has a brain, a heart, and a consciousness. Make no mistake of that.

I ask that you commune with whatever spirits you follow once again. Ask them. Is it logical or ethical to slay another living being for a type of food that you DO NOT REQUIRE in order to be healthy? In fact, our digestive systems far more resemble that of a herbivore than a carnivore. Cats (true carnivores) have very short intestinal tracts. We have very long ones. Cats eat raw meat. We have to perform a controlled burn on flesh before we consume it or we likely become ill. Eating meat is natural? I don't think so.

Look at Mac Danzig. Or other vegan athletes. They are strong, muscular, successful athletes who do NOT consume ANY animal protein. Their bodies are not that much different from yours. Biologically, virtually identical. Bottom line, you don't need to eat meat. You're killing another mammal to survive when you don't need to. If you're ok with that, then fine. But don't delude yourself into thinking that this is the way it was 'meant to be.' or that the animal spirits appreciate this treatment and betrayal.

 

[Blundering_Novice]

Saidin, I hope I have not come across as attacking you personally. You seem like a thoughtful, conscientious person and I don't want to come across as the proverbial militant vegetarian.

All I know is that when I was 23, I stopped eating meat. I am 37 now. I am in prime physical health and its one of the most important decisions I ever made in my life. I used to be overweight and tired. Then, I was energetic, strong, and needed much less sleep. granted, I not only stopped eating meat, but I educated myself about nutrition and started an exercise routine. That aside, what it proved to me was that MEAT SIMPLY ISNT NECESSARY, and it would be wrong of me to eat it simply because I 'liked' it. Plantation owners also 'liked' having slaves do all the hard work, too! But it was never right to enslave others. And, I extended that consideration to our little brothers and sisters here on Earth!

I challenge ANYONE to try it for a month. But, try it seriously. Don't just eat PB&J sandwiches; get your nutritional requirements and be scientific about it. You will feel physically and spiritually clean in ways you cannot now fathom!

 

[Saidin]

Primarily because animals have a central nervous system, maybe? They writhe and fight when being put to death. When I pick an orange off of a tree, it's pretty clear that nothing was harmed.

Now, lets look at the resources involved. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of pounds of grain and thousands of gallons of water go into making ONE POUND of flesh food? There's nothing even remotely environmentally sound about such a tremendous funnel of resources.

I respect your desire to at least be spiritual about your diet choices. It's better than being a McDonalds customer. But please spare me this nonsense about animals being thankful about being turned into a steak that humans do not need to survive. There is not a single essential amino acid that we cannot synthesize from vegetable/fruit/legume proteins.

Wow, I thought this subject had died on the vine ( )...I guess not hehe! I don't feel like you are attacking me personally. I asked you why, and you told me in very vivid, passionate language. You cannot possibly offend me in any way, so don't worry about it.

How do you know the tree/fruit was not harmed in any way? Just because it does not react in a way that more complex life forms do, does not mean it is free from experiencing harm.

In fact there have been experiments done which show that plants do experience fear, pain, and electrically writhe and fight when put in danger. The experiements are controversial because they have been able to be replicated in some cases, and not in others. It's called the Backster Effect. If true, then your plants suffer just as much as any animal when used for food.

I know what goes into making a pound of flesh in a factory farm. I diagree with factory farms as I feel they are cruel and environmentally destructive. I eat organic, free range whenever I can. But the industry has fought labeling forever, so it often makes it difficult to know where your food is coming from.

In the grand sheme it is irrelvant whether increased protien caused brain changes. We evolved to eat meat, as it provides a higher dose of nutrients. If there wasn't the effort/reward mechanism for this type of consumption, it would not have become and evolutionary necessity for our species.

I never said, nor believe I indicated that animals are thankful for being turned into steaks. I believe that from a spiritual point of view, the animals spirit UNDERSTANDS, and we can foster that understanding by being thankful for the life-force that allows us to survive, no matter where that source of energy comes from. We all get recycled anyway, so it just leads to a new incarnation, perhaps to something that is no longer needed as food by humans.

 

[Saidin]

Hunting is less of an evil than factory farming, I agree. Destructive? If I shoot you with a bow and arrow and chop you up for a meal I dont need in order to live, I think you'd agree that it is destructive.

Balance?? HAHA! The old 'noble savage' rap. Listen, the imbalance came about when WE killed most of the natural predators to keep OUR livestock safe. See the connection?

Yes, balance...ecosystems eventually come into a balance when conditions are favorable. Too much prey, and the hunters increase in numbers until they have decimated the prey, then they become decimated until the prey animals recover and the cycle starts all over again. It is natural, it is nature. You are correct, we are currently not in balance with nature.

No, raising it yourself is not as much a waste. I concede that point. Just don't pretend that the animal enjoys being slain. All living things, particularly animals, want to avoid suffering and pain. people/fish/animals/whatever DO NOT enjoy being killed. You only need spend 2 minutes in an abbatoir to see this for yourself.

Life is pain and suffering. As you stated yourself, all living things want to avoid suffering and pain. Plants are living things. I never said anything enjoys being killed, in fact I have expanded it beyond your view to include plants as well as animals. Of course from a militant vegetarian perspective, this is unthinkable as it destroys your entire moral imperitive for not eating flesh.

Do as you will, but dont EVER pretend that animals wish to become food for us. It's a quaint way of looking at the native americans, but this myth of them existing in perfect harmony with the world around them is just romantic nonsense. Did they do a better job of managing nature than the Eurpoean invaders? I think so. But they were still humans. Fallible. Prone to lusts. Prone to rationalizations. Prone to justifying the murder of animals with ideas about spirit totems and such.

Of course animals don't want to become food for us. Just as we do not want to become food for flesh eating bacteria, or a hungry tiger, or a mosquito, or a virus, or a disease. Its just the nature of the existence we are currently in. Calling the use of flesh in order to keep us alive murder is a bit beyond the pale for me. I can see how you can think that way, but for me, as long as that lifeforce is respected and not wasted, it is not murder.

Would it even be possible to feed the whole world on plants, if overnight we eliminated the consumption of animal flesh?

 

[Saidin]

Let's look at it another way too. How long does it take an animal to reach maturity? A few years. How long does it take a stalk of beans to reach maturity? A few months. Does getting 'food' from the animal destroy the host? yes. Does picking soybeans/hemp seeds/corn destroy the host? no.

Yes, it does destory the host, and prevents reproduction. What happens to a corn stalk once all the ears have been picked? It dies. What happens to the bean stalk? It dies. Not only does it die, but you have prevented it from reproducing. It is in effect no different than the husbandry of animals.

Cows are considered to be a good food source because they bear lots of meat as well as milk. What do cows eat? Grass. Do cows magically convert material at the atomic level? No. All the proteins, minerals, and vitamins available in a cow come from it absorbing or synthesizing nutrients from GREEN vegetative matter.

The cow does convert cellulose into protiens, fats, etc. This is a more concentrated level of nutrients than you get from plant material. It eats something that we cannot, and converts it into something we can. What is the caloric value of a kilo of beef? How many kilos of lettuce would you need to eat in order to achieve the same amount of energy?

Again, I REALLY DO respect your desire to at least have a spiritual connection to your food. I do. To me, its much more noble than going to McDonalds. But don't delude yourself. You are killing an animal that values its own existence as much as you do, though perhaps in different ways. It has a brain, a heart, and a consciousness. Make no mistake of that.

I am not deluded in the slightest. I understand what is going on. I honestly try to consciously restrict my intake of animal products, but run into a couple problems. I like the taste, it stimulates the chemicals in my brain in such a way as it makes me feel content and saitiated. It fits with my metabolic needs very nicely, and strictly vegertarian diets are unappetising to me. To me, whether you kill and animal or a plant, I am using something that values its own existence as much as I do.

Do you honestly believe that ANY life form, on the most intrinsic level imaginable, does not value its existence?

I ask that you commune with whatever spirits you follow once again. Ask them. Is it logical or ethical to slay another living being for a type of food that you DO NOT REQUIRE in order to be healthy? In fact, our digestive systems far more resemble that of a herbivore than a carnivore. Cats (true carnivores) have very short intestinal tracts. We have very long ones. Cats eat raw meat. We have to perform a controlled burn on flesh before we consume it or we likely become ill. Eating meat is natural? I don't think so.

I commune with the spirits every day, before every meal, giving thanks for the energy being provided to me which I need in order to survive. I thank them all, plants, animals, nuts, grains for their sacrifice so that I may live. I eat raw meat occasionally and never get sick, does that mean that eating meat is natural for me?

Bottom line, you don't need to eat meat. You're killing another mammal to survive when you don't need to. If you're ok with that, then fine. But don't delude yourself into thinking that this is the way it was 'meant to be.' or that the animal spirits appreciate this treatment and betrayal.

I respect vegetarians immensely. I wish I could do it, I have tried, and it didn't work for me for the reasons I mentioned above. I am okay with eating animal flesh when I know I do not have to. I try to restrict it, to find alternative when I can. I have no guilt, just as you do not have any guilt for eating the lifeforce of plants, and in your own way betraying them.

 

[88]

How do you know the tree/fruit was not harmed in any way? Just because it does not react in a way that more complex life forms do, does not mean it is free from experiencing harm.

In fact there have been experiments done which show that plants do experience fear, pain, and electrically writhe and fight when put in danger. The experiements are controversial because they have been able to be replicated in some cases, and not in others. It's called the Backster Effect. If true, then your plants suffer just as much as any animal when used for food.

I'm not a vegetarian, but many of our plant foods have evolved to be exactly that - food. The function of fruits, berries, grains, nuts etc is to be eaten and thus propagated. Tnat is their purpose; so I don't agree with you that there is any moral equivalence between plants and animals.

On the other hand, creatures eat creatures. But only we mechanise it, and only we are in a position to question it from a moral standpoint. In nature, needs must.

I agree with you that its important to respect the food we eat, plant or animal, not to waste and to be thankful.

 

[Saidin]

I'm not a vegetarian, but many of our plant foods have evolved to be exactly that - food. The function of fruits, berries, grains, nuts etc is to be eaten and thus propagated. Tnat is their purpose; so I don't agree with you that there is any moral equivalence between plants and animals.

On the other hand, creatures eat creatures. But only we mechanise it, and only we are in a position to question it from a moral standpoint. In nature, needs must.

I agree with you that its important to respect the food we eat, plant or animal, not to waste and to be thankful.

Excellent point, I hadn't thought of that. Therefore from a stictly moral perspective (as if we could all agree on morals anyway) we should only eat foods that are designed to be eaten as a means of propogation. Fruits, berries, nuts, some vegetables. Grains not so much (wind works almost as well for most), and forget lettuce, celery, root vegetables, mushrooms...