Synthetic human

[frobot]

I have only just gotten into chemistry in the past month or two, and I love it almost obsessively.
I like to think about it while I am tripping, and I came across an interesting insight I would have never thought about before. A human body is just a big chemistry lab chain reaction. A biological machine. When the reaction is over, you are dead.

Now the question that sent my mind sailing away - if you synthesized everything together just right to match a human body 100%, could this result in consciousness? If it did, would it be the same kind of consciousness?
Obviously not going to happen. Just for hypothetical discussion.

I personally think it would because I have always defined "life" as a measure of complexity, and consciousness as a result of mass complexity. An odd consequence of this is that the planet as a whole would be more alive than we are!
There is an obvious correlation between how "alive" an organism seems and the complexity of their brain.
For example, an ant is predictable. Put your finger in front of an ant as it walks its path and note what it does. Do this to other ants and you quickly see that they almost seem scripted.
We humans have brains of unimaginable complexity. We are unpredictable and FULL of life.

Think about any time you have done something that makes you feel "alive".
You probably weren't sitting on the couch. It happens during new experiences, or when your heart is pumping. Your brain is doing more (making it more complex during that time) resulting in you feeling more alive.
This life boosting phenomenon seems to be amplified by groups, similar to how meditation is.
The most alive I have ever felt is when raging at EDM shows. Half the people are on drugs. The brain activity is practically contagious. Everyone is pumped and dancing. Even when sober I can get high off of just being in that atmosphere.

Anyways, getting off topic. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has ideas on this sort of thing.

 

[SKA]

You describe the view of consciousness as a phenomenom being generated by the brain.
I lean more towards the view of consciousness being a signal being transceived by the brain.
In this view the consciousness does not cease to exist if the body and it's brain dies.

Though there is no definitive proof of either view I find the latter to be at least as
compellingas the first. Perhaps even a bit more.

Even if you were to succeed creating the synthetic human you described,
complete with brain using the most sophisticated computers & organic 3D printers imaginable,
what you would have created would be a human corpse.

In the view you described a human fetus would get consciousness when it's brains are fully grown
to the point it could start "generating" it's own consciousness.

Is it not equally plausible that instead consciousness is first RECEIVED by the brain once it has
developped beyond a certain, complex enough stage? It could also explain why consciousness leaves
the body uppon death: The brain is deprived of the fuels it needs to keep running for too long,
cells start dying and eventually critical damage occurs, rendering the brain unable to receive &
"broadcast" consciousness anymore.

Like a radio smashed with a sledgehammer will no longer receive & broadcast radiosignals,
though the radiosignals remain in the air with all the information in tact.

Though building a new radio would allow you to receive that same signal again,
I have a strong hunch buiding a new, synthetic human body wouldn't result in
it becomming conscious and alive all by itself.



Off course to know for sure would require experimentation, observations & documentation.
I dont think the scanners, computers, 3D printers required to build a synthetic human body
exist just yet.

Maybe try starting with simpler organisms. Beetles or earth-worms.
Even that would be a staggering amount of work, but perhaps 3Dprinting
earthworms & beetles would be possible with today's computers & 3D printers.

Even then I somehow doubt any printed, synthetic worm or beetle would suddenly spring alive,
but feel free to put it to the test.

 

[frobot]

I lean more towards the view of consciousness being a signal being transceived by the brain.
In this view the consciousness does not cease to exist if the body and it's brain dies.

This is also what I believe 100%
Your brain is an antenna, and the more complex it is the better reception you get, and consciousness isn't the result of a brain, so it lives on even when the body dies.

Even if you were to succeed creating the synthetic human you described,
complete with brain using the most sophisticated computers & organic 3D printers imaginable,
what you would have created would be a human corpse.

I thought this was a definite possibility also, but I wonder even if it is just a corpse, would it have a pulse? would it breathe? you don't have to consciously think to do either of these things, I see them more as reactions. Maybe it would be like a human in a vegetable state. Or maybe it would just be a pile of blood and organs that does nothing at all.

In the view you described a human fetus would get consciousness when it's brains are fully grown
to the point it could start "generating" it's own consciousness.

I don't think there is a defining line for having and not having consciousness. I think a fetus is only a fraction of the "aliveness" and consciousness of a fully grown human, and it becomes more conscious as its brain develops.

 

[1plus1equals3]

"Antennae" is pretty close to how I would describe human consciousness, I usually think of our nervous system like a computer. A computer does nothing without electricity, electricity is just wild energy without wires and capacitors to direct and transform it. A computer chip takes energy and redirects it into complex patterns that can then be interpreted by a human. I think a human brain works in a similar way. There exists energy/frequencies all around us, on this earth and out in outer space, that is in my opinion one higher consciousness. that energy flows through all things, living an non living, including us.

I think that our brains generate ego/individual identity by redirecting energy through millions of neurons in extremely complex physical patterns that form our thoughts. These thoughts exist to trick us by creating the illusion that we are separate from other things. They essentially create a "barrier" of logical paradoxes and chemical rewards. I think of it like water. The universe is all the water in the world, a lake is a brain. There is a river bringing new water into the lake and another river carrying water out and towards the ocean. While the water is in the lake, it doesn't move much, grows stagnant, creates an ecosystem distinct from other bodies of water etc.

Anyway, with a artificial human body, I think perhaps that if the nervous system was built correctly, it might be able to channel energy into consciousness. Maybe performing a seance could summon a bodiless pattern of consciousness to migrate into the new, uninhibited body?

 

[frobot]

I don't see much difference between computers and what we call living things. This is what started me on thinking of life as being a measure of complexity.
I used to build and program computers for a living and in that time my line between man and machine got quite blurry.
A processor is an incredibly simplified brain. It processes information in the form of electrical signals.
A brain has a way of holding information from the past as a memory (like a hard drive) and a way of holding information for quick access and processing that is happening in the moment (like RAM).
The GPU is the visual cortex.
The motherboard is the nervous system.
The power supply is the heart.

We have made processors with many billions of transistors and multiple processing cores and it seems quite complex, but it is still not the tiniest fraction of even a simple brain. This is why a computer doesn't seem very life like.
The next step of man made life is the internet. If you have ever seen a mapping of the internet, it mimics the shape and growth of neurons and the wide scale structure of the universe.
I don't think it's any coincidence. It is insanely complex and dynamic, changing and growing constantly. Though it doesn't say hi to you when you wake up, and still can't compare to a brain, I think of it as a life form.

Also something worth mentioning is a recent study showing how psiolcybin mushrooms strengthen the connections between parts of the brain. I think this is what causes the higher levels of consciousness during any psychedelic experience (connections in a system raise complexity exponentially!)
This looks a bit like the evolution of computer processors. Stronger connections allow you to do much more. Also the more connected the world is through the internet, the more it shows this web-like pattern that can be seen in many other things.

How Tripping On Mushrooms Changes The Brain

Why mushroom users "feel" colors and "taste" sounds.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Intezam]

:? we (intezam) don't know....but we don't believe consciousness/awareness is a result of complexity and/or novelty or in any way limited or bound or tied nor produced by it. Such a gølem/børgianism/alkhøvianism approach may as well serve as a vaccine against everyday magick .... not sure if that is what you/they/them/us wanted? And then what?:?:


edit: there is a good song at the end of this movie. Scroll foward to 1:26:50 (if you can)

 

[frobot]

we (intezam) don't know....but we don't believe consciousness/awareness is a result of complexity and/or novelty or in any way limited or bound or tied nor produced by it. Such a gølem/børgianism/alkhøvianism approach may as well serve as a vaccine against everyday magick .... not sure if that is what you/they/them/us wanted? And then what?

Not quite sure what any of that meant I'm sorry