Syrian Rue seeds: recommendations for beginners

[reun]

Hi all,

I'm new here, and I'd like to try the harmala alkaloids as potentiators and as a standalone medicine. I'd like to understand how I can consume these seeds.

I've found a number of extraction methods described on the Nexus and elsewhere, but, most probably due to my lack of chemistry knowledge, I've found most of the available information somewhat difficult to follow. I understand that some people don't run any extractions at all, they just make tea from Syrian rue.

From what I understand (and I could be completely wrong about it all), most of the toxins are in the seed shell. I understand that I may just (1) coarsely crush the seeds, (2) boil them in acidified (with white vinegar or lemon juice) water for 20 mins, strain the liquid into a collection jar, (3) repeat step 2 a few times, (4) boil the collected liquid down to a cup and that should do the trick.

If I do this with 3-5 g, it would work as a MAOI potentiator, then 30 mins or so after consuming this Syrian rue brew, I could consume, say 100 mg of DMT diluted in 10ml of lemon juice, and that would be an ayahuasca trip (or pharmahuasca). The brewing process should largely eliminate stomach discomfort. Is my understanding correct here?

If I brew 10-15 g of Syrian rue, then I could experience it standalone.

I believe that people run the extraction to further purify the harmala and, most importantly, to separate harmine, which is psychoactive and clean in terms of body load.

I also found multiple local sellers of Syrian rue and the price difference between them seems dramatic: one sells 15g for $30 AUD and the other sells 240g for $40 AUD. If anyone can comment on why that is, and whether there are good reasons to buy the more expensive one, then I'd love to hear from you!

I would appreciate if someone could clarify my understanding here.

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[TransistorBass]

Have you checked eBay in your area? I can get 200g for £12.19 here in the UK.

At its most simple you can eat the seeds, I first tried 0.5g and 1g of ground seeds made into a simple tea and drank the tea and swilled the ground seed down too. I get a mood lift from these small doses.

There is a really simple extraction TEK here - Wiki - Super-Easy No-Filter Harmalas Tek

Here's the short version from that TEK:

== Regular Procedure Cliff-Notes ==
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1. Freeze-Thaw Prep: Soak 100g whole Syrian Rue seeds in water. Freeze solid. Thaw the frozen seed-water. The freezing step significantly increases initial yield of the Tek.
2. Initial Simmer: Place the seed mix in a pot, add ~30ml vinegar, and sufficient water to reach 1000ml total volume. Lightly simmer (DON'T boil) for 40 minutes, maintaining the volume by adding water as needed.
3. Strain & Re-Simmer: Strain the liquid through a mesh strainer into a heat-safe collection container. Return seeds to the pot, add a splash of vinegar and enough water to raise volume to ~750ml. Simmer for 20 minutes, strain, and combine all liquid. Cool. (An optional 3rd simmer can be done)
4. Basify: Add a saturated sodium carbonate (or dilute lye/NaOH - if you are NOT using plastic containers) solution a little bit at a time to the cooled tea until precipitation stops increasing—indicated by a color change to sand-colored and the formation a cloudy precipitate.
5. Settle: Allow the mixture to settle for 1 hour, then gently agitate to encourage floaters to sink. Refrigerate for 2+ hours until precipitate is fully settled.
6. Wash Cycles (5-7x): After the tall-narrow washing vessel has settled in the fridge, carefully decant ~90% of the liquid into a bucket. Refill the vessel with fresh water and return to the fridge to fully settle. Repeat 5-7 times to dilute and remove residual base.
7. Dry: After the last decanting, pour the final brown sludge into a heatproof dish. Evaporate at low heat (e.g., low oven with door ajar, or electric stove top on min) until completely dry. Scrape the powder for storage and optional weighing.
8. Recover "Losses": Allow the bucket of decanted wash water to settle for several hours. Pour off enough water to fit it in your tall-narrow washing vessel then process the settled sediment with 3-4 more wash cycles (discarding decanted liquid) and dry as above to recover remaining harmalas.

You probably get better MAOI with extracted harmalas. 50-60mg Sublingual is enough for me without causing any/much nausea.

 

[Sakkadelic]

Hi reun, welcome to the nexus!

I've found a number of extraction methods described on the Nexus and elsewhere, but, most probably due to my lack of chemistry knowledge, I've found most of the available information somewhat difficult to follow. I understand that some people don't run any extractions at all, they just make tea from Syrian rue.

Harmala extraction is relatively easy and fun to do, it's a great starting point if you want to get into extractions. Tea is perfectly fine too and preferable for some.

From what I understand (and I could be completely wrong about it all), most of the toxins are in the seed shell. I understand that I may just (1) coarsely crush the seeds, (2) boil them in acidified (with white vinegar or lemon juice) water for 20 mins, strain the liquid into a collection jar, (3) repeat step 2 a few times, (4) boil the collected liquid down to a cup and that should do the trick.

By toxins you mean the alkaloids of interest or some other bad stuff? It's been mentioned before that the harmalas are concentrated in the shell but it's not clear whether it's true or not. The seeds are also tiny so separating the exterior from the interior is not feasible.

The process you outlined would work. I personally would grind them finely, I wouldn't add acid or perhaps a small amount to ensure the pH is acidic, boil for 30 min keeping the volume around a cup, filter and squeeze the seeds.

If I do this with 3-5 g, it would work as a MAOI potentiator, then 30 mins or so after consuming this Syrian rue brew, I could consume, say 100 mg of DMT diluted in 10ml of lemon juice, and that would be an ayahuasca trip (or pharmahuasca). The brewing process should largely eliminate stomach discomfort. Is my understanding correct here?

With a rue brew there's no need to wait that long to take the dmt, 10 mins is sufficient in my experience. 100 mg DMT is a large dose! Go for 30 mg if it's your first time. You can also split the dose and redose if you want to go deeper.
Brewing is certainly easier on the stomach than consuming the plant material. There's a good chance of discomfort and nausea regardless of method of preparation and administration.

If I brew 10-15 g of Syrian rue, then I could experience it standalone.

That would be a very large dose and very uncomfortable to handle at the least. You don't need more than 4-5g with rue and experiencing it standalone is more about working with it longterm.

 

[reun]

Have you checked eBay in your area? I can get 200g for £12.19 here in the UK.

At its most simple you can eat the seeds, I first tried 0.5g and 1g of ground seeds made into a simple tea and drank the tea and swilled the ground seed down too. I get a mood lift from these small doses.

There is a really simple extraction TEK here - Wiki - Super-Easy No-Filter Harmalas Tek

Here's the short version from that TEK:


You probably get better MAOI with extracted harmalas. 50-60mg Sublingual is enough for me without causing any/much nausea.

Excellent, thank you for sharing! I'm not sure why, but I had trouble finding something as straightforward as this tek.

Suppose that I have the harmalas (without separating harmine and harmaline), the recommended consumption would be taking 500 mg of freebase harmalas, dissolving them in 10 ml of lemon juice, drinking the mixture, then 10 minutes later, doing the same with DMT freebase, except I'd use about 30 mg of DMT. Does this sound like a reasonable way to consume this?

Thank you again.

 

[Sakkadelic]

500 mg freebase harmalas is quite high, don't know where you're getting these values from. 200 mg freebase harmala is a good dose, 250 mg if you want to be extra.

 

[TransistorBass]

With 100mg Harmalas it was enough to make me feel quite woozy once I'd vaped a little DMT, I had to move very slowly to avoid feeling sick. Better to have some 'Only Harmalas' sessions before adding in DMT.

I recently made some harmala-heavy Changa and that was far too sedating for my likes, I just had to wait for it to wear off and it wasn't my idea of fun.

 

[blig-blug]

Just in case you may have read something about "toxins" being present in Syrian rue, that's not the case. Syrian rue doesn't contain substances that are toxic at the doses usually consumed. This idea of "toxins" often refers to vasicine and vasicinone, which not only aren't toxic but have some potential health benefits. An exception is for pregnant women, who shouldn't consume them.

 

[Voidmatrix]

With 100mg Harmalas it was enough to make me feel quite woozy once I'd vaped a little DMT, I had to move very slowly to avoid feeling sick. Better to have some 'Only Harmalas' sessions before adding in DMT.

Yes, build a relationship with harmalas as well. Work with them solo. In doing so, your system will adapt to the extent that nausea and necessary purging become less of an occurrence.

Hi all,

I'm new here, and I'd like to try the harmala alkaloids as potentiators and as a standalone medicine. I'd like to understand how I can consume these seeds.

I've found a number of extraction methods described on the Nexus and elsewhere, but, most probably due to my lack of chemistry knowledge, I've found most of the available information somewhat difficult to follow. I understand that some people don't run any extractions at all, they just make tea from Syrian rue.

From what I understand (and I could be completely wrong about it all), most of the toxins are in the seed shell. I understand that I may just (1) coarsely crush the seeds, (2) boil them in acidified (with white vinegar or lemon juice) water for 20 mins, strain the liquid into a collection jar, (3) repeat step 2 a few times, (4) boil the collected liquid down to a cup and that should do the trick.

If I do this with 3-5 g, it would work as a MAOI potentiator, then 30 mins or so after consuming this Syrian rue brew, I could consume, say 100 mg of DMT diluted in 10ml of lemon juice, and that would be an ayahuasca trip (or pharmahuasca). The brewing process should largely eliminate stomach discomfort. Is my understanding correct here?

If I brew 10-15 g of Syrian rue, then I could experience it standalone.

I believe that people run the extraction to further purify the harmala and, most importantly, to separate harmine, which is psychoactive and clean in terms of body load.

I also found multiple local sellers of Syrian rue and the price difference between them seems dramatic: one sells 15g for $30 AUD and the other sells 240g for $40 AUD. If anyone can comment on why that is, and whether there are good reasons to buy the more expensive one, then I'd love to hear from you!

I would appreciate if someone could clarify my understanding here.

Thank you very much in advance!

If you're new to harmalas, start lower than pretty much all of the doses you've listed. Higher doses can lead to nausea, anxiety, and panic, things that can be avoided if a relationship and acclimation period is had. For example, 3-5g is already steep for newbies, as is 500mg of freebase harmalas.

One love