Syrian Rue vs Caapi vs Caapi Variants

[mud1]

I'm wondering what the big difference between Rue and Cappi are. It seems according to this and this they have slight variations in harmaline, harmine, and THH.

I'm wondering how other people's experiences differ on rue vs caapi and how these harmala differences may affect it. I will probably eventually take both anyway.

I have also stumbled upon a place that explains several varieties of caapi from different regions, it is a bit overwhelming, has anyone had experience with any of these, or where to begin when picking one?

 

[KlassM8]

Syrian Rue is awesome, it works for everything - I even tried it with shrooms. And it totally potentials the experience and made it last a bit longer, like 8 hrs instead of 4-6.

I look forward to trying caapi by itself, and some other variants like your chart lays out. I would make a decision based on price to begin with, it seems that the cheaper price varieties are pretty much the standard strains/varieties and it stands to reason that slightly more expensive options may be better in some ways. I’ll explore the more expensive ones as I gain experience and am able to appreciate the qualities that make it worth the extra

Online I have found some pure freebase and HCL extracts of Syrian Rue, some with a mixture of harmine/harmaline, and I have some that they have been isolated individually. I think the plants themselves have a cocktail of active ingredients and it seems that mixture is better than harmine or harmaline by themselves, but I’m still new and I’m sure others have already explored these things. I think harmaline is more potent than harmine, but I would go with a mixture.

Syrian Rue just seems to have the perfect mix of active ingredients, it may even be better than Caapi

 

[Jees]

The biggest difference imho is the harmaline in rue (near none of that in in caapi) makes it more dreamy, stoney, fuzzy, less clear, ..
Taking too much harmaline makes it a hard journey though.
Harmaline lengthens effects, a longer tapering off.

Rue makes me more happy than caapi, caapi makes me serious than rue. Havent combined them though, would be interesting.

Anyway, you haven't specified your target use. Chronic microdosing? intense trips?

 

[mud1]

Syrian Rue is awesome, it works for everything - I even tried it with shrooms. And it totally potentials the experience and made it last a bit longer, like 8 hrs instead of 4-6.

I look forward to trying caapi by itself, and some other variants like your chart lays out. I would make a decision based on price to begin with, it seems that the cheaper price varieties are pretty much the standard strains/varieties and it stands to reason that slightly more expensive options may be better in some ways. I’ll explore the more expensive ones as I gain experience and am able to appreciate the qualities that make it worth the extra

Online I have found some pure freebase and HCL extracts of Syrian Rue, some with a mixture of harmine/harmaline, and I have some that they have been isolated individually. I think the plants themselves have a cocktail of active ingredients and it seems that mixture is better than harmine or harmaline by themselves, but I’m still new and I’m sure others have already explored these things. I think harmaline is more potent than harmine, but I would go with a mixture.

Syrian Rue just seems to have the perfect mix of active ingredients, it may even be better than Caapi

Thanks for the perspective, Rue also seems much more economical, as you only need ~3 grams compared to the 50g of caapi, so I will probably start with that.

I'm interested in the shrooms part, how much rue do you take for shrooms? For both shrooms and DMT, I plan on taking lower doses (old adage, you can always take more, but not less). It seems taking less rue will be okay since that will just mean a shorter trip

 

[mud1]

The biggest difference imho is the harmaline in rue (near none of that in in caapi) makes it more dreamy, stoney, fuzzy, less clear, ..
Taking too much harmaline makes it a hard journey though.
Harmaline lengthens effects, a longer tapering off.

Rue makes me more happy than caapi, caapi makes me serious than rue. Havent combined them though, would be interesting.

Anyway, you haven't specified your target use. Chronic microdosing? intense trips?

My plan is to to have trips, eventually work up to "intense" trips. Particularly for healing, in that case do you think it makes a difference?

 

[L-dreamer]

No one has yet to establish exactly the difference in beta-carboline composition from all those different caapi strains you found on that vendor, most people from Europe ordered from it. And even in experiences it is hard to quantify exactly how the caapi strain impacted it. There are "legends" about red, yellow, black caapi, don't worry about them that much.
Harmaline is more bioavailable than harmine and as such has stronger MAOI effect when eaten, and harmaline also crosses the blood-brain-barrier and as such has stronger mental effects. Caapi has THH which provides body euphoria.
Caapi tea can be a bit of a work to make, either from bark or leaves, while rue just works very simply (you boil 2-3 g for half an hour and you have enough MAOI inhibition for all your "needs").

Start with rue, then experiment with the caapi if you have the time and space for it.

 

[Th3k1d93]

The only variety of Caapi I've found a noticeable difference with has been a couple black varieties from certain vendors, but I've also had a black variety perform exactly the same as yellow Cielo strains. I've heard rumors of some "Black Caapi" not being actual Caapi at all, but another vine host of beta-carbolines. I still have some of one batch, I really should have it analyzed.

Rue is incredibly different though. Harmaline is a tricky beast. just barely too much and the experience can be pretty frightening vs a fear I've never had with Caapi. The spirit of mother ayahuasca is in the vine itself, not the specific harmalas. There is a literal guiding motherly presence making brews from Caapi, that Rue completely lacks.

That doesn't discredit Rue as subpar at all either though, it's just a very different experience that isn't nearly as analogous to the ayahuasca experience as laymen on the web believe after only utilizing the medicine a couple times.

The biggest difference imho is the harmaline in rue (near none of that in in caapi) makes it more dreamy, stoney, fuzzy, less clear, ..
Taking too much harmaline makes it a hard journey though.
Harmaline lengthens effects, a longer tapering off.

Rue makes me more happy than caapi, caapi makes me serious than rue. Havent combined them though, would be interesting.

I pretty solidly agree with this summary here.

 

[mud1]

Thanks for the insights, any recommendation on how much caapi to get a time? Considering one dose is like 50g of vine, 200-250g should be a good stash for a few experiments for one person, right?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I've had some amazing experiences with rue alone, so if it proves more accessible to you than caapi I'd definitely consider it as a viable - and valuable - plant teacher in its own right. On several lucky occasions it has proven to be highly visionary although I should point out that I've used it alongside various herbs that - while not being individually noted for any kind of visionary properties - nonetheless appear to enhance rue's visionary properties for me at least.

I'll share some more details of this in a thread once I get round to transcibing the six pages of notes from the last deep experience - which, incidentally, the last portion of which turned into a kind of slow motion hyperslap. This makes me caution against relying to heavily on the notion that rue might 'make you happy'. It can act as an antidepressant, and very effectively at that, but it can also give a stern indication of needing to sort one's shit out. So, in my case it was an instance of getting swept up in a bubble of hubris then ground on the tarmac, and I take full responsibility for that, with gratitude to boot.

My experiences with caapi are much more limited but there are clear parallels and qualitative (as well as quantitative!) differences. I'll demur from commenting on the qualitative side due to the aforementioned lack of experience - or at least the lack of detailed records of the caapi experiences that I have had - but on the quantitative level, an effective dose of rue costs me less than five cents. I don't know how much caapi you'd get for that.