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Tantra is the SCIENCE of becoming one with the universe

Migrated topic.
..my friend, who spent a lot of time with Osho post'75 , said that Osho set up several (not publicised) psychedelic research groups at the ashram.
Extensive work was done by around 30-50 people using LSD & psilocybin. (I believe my source's integrity) So guess he must have changed his mind (or had a 'popularlist' message that differed from his inner circle or whatever..) Also, until Jin's post, the only first hand account i had heard of that particular
Soma formula was this friend of mine quoting Osho (c.late'70s).

the Sanyasin 'scene' these days seems to me to have split into two branches:
those who still follow around repetitive gurus; while the rest now include a lot of ayahuasca advocates (it's their new thing...)

now, whatabout Tantra is the SCIENCE of becoming..etc???:)
 
The Book of Secrets is Osho's 1972 translation (with much advice and commentary) of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra.

Wikipedia:
Cast as a discourse between the god Shiva and his consort, [the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra] briefly presents 112 methods of meditation. These include several variants of breath awareness, non-dual mottos, chanting, exercises of visualization and imagination and contemplation through each of the senses. A prerequisite to success in any of the 112 practices is a clear understanding of which method is most suitable to the practitioner.
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The questions asked by Shiva's wife, Devi, reflect the state of mind of one who doesn't just understand but lives non-dualism. She is already with Shiva. Thus, she does not ask for herself, but for the whole human race. It is for our benefit that she makes this request of Shiva. The book is in two parts, her questions, then Shiva lists meditation methods.

So, my understanding of the parts of this science is an artist's understanding of nature. I feel that it is a science, but I cannot spell it out for you. It might be better said that Tantra is a technology, because it is the application of science. Yes, that is much closer to what I mean. I trust in the hearts and minds of the Hindus who developed Tantra; I trust that they have collectively scooped up treasures that are in many ways objectively so.

Unlike a science, there may be holes in Tantra, and so we must be open to all practices in ways of life. Tantra incorporates all of the mind, forces us to feel and use all of our (literal) inner/medium brain, in order to connect it to the universe. If you are not "feeling" your inner/medium brains, you are not successfully practicing Tantra. I feel it is science because Tantra's viewpoint is not much different from modern neuroscience's viewpoint.

A healthy brain is one that does not neglect any part of itself, is a brain whose cells are constantly subjected to chaotic "natural" selection by the universe and by the person connecting to the universe.

A drive to transform and create (to do) originates from deep within -- and when we failed to satisfy these desires, long ago, we placed on top of them "results" that could serve as temporary satisfaction. Somehow it seems we have blocked ourselves from full enjoyment.

If you find in yourself desires which this world can't satisfy, then you have yet to merge yourself with the limitless world. Always recreation, always rebirth with every moment, always to change something, everything.
 
Dedalus said:
So, my understanding of the parts of this science is an artist's understanding of nature. It might be better said that Tantra is a technology, because it is the application of science. Yes, that is much closer to what I mean. I trust in the hearts and minds of the Hindus who developed Tantra; I trust that they have collectively scooped up treasures that are in many ways objectively so.
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Beautifully said. And I wholeheartedly agree about much of your creative perspective. Tantra is a collective of metaphysical technologies and in it's purest state, utilizes the teachings and philosophies of both, Ayurveda and Yoga. As a non-dualist philosophy, it does not make a differentiation between the Sacred and the profane. They are One, as is everything in this vast multiverse.

Robert Svoboda said:
Because every embodied individual is composed of a body, a mind and a spirit, the ancient Rishis of India who developed the Science of Life organized their wisdom into three bodies of knowledge: Ayurveda, which deals mainly with the physical body; Yoga, which deals mainly with Spirit; and Tantra, which is mainly concerned with the mind. The philosophy of all three is identical; their manifestations differ because of their differing emphases. Ayurveda is most concerned with the physical basis of life, concentrating on its harmony of mind and spirit. Yoga controls body and mind to enable them to harmonize with Spirit, and Tantra seeks to use the mind to balance the demands of body and spirit.
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The false idea that Tantra and Yoga are two alternate systems which battle it out for supremacy... is the folly of 20th and 21st century oversimplification. Please, do look into the teachings of Sri Anandamurti. This master was the guy who coined the phrase Tantric-Yoga. I studied with one of his senior disciples, Swami Nityananda, for a couple of years and I was taught BOTH Tantra and Yoga, as parts of the same self-integration with life and the source of all life... the Indivisible Field of the Godhead. :idea:


So, we need to be mindful of the interconnection between these two symbiotic aspects of the path of the Sadhu seeking Moksha (spiritual liberation). We need to each reasonably sort out the differences between the Tantric and the Yogic. Both are two sides of the same coin and each are unique aspects of the holistic system of spiritual integration, by which India had gained the respect and the acclaim of the whole of Asia. What the Vedantic lineage had come to be known for, even if it is reportedly a fading reality in the present century. Sigh... perhaps it is the contemporary psychonaut who bridges the the gap left from the ending of the age of the Rishis?

All we can do is remain alert and open to a shift in our awareness, by which we contact alternate levels of mind. Alternate yes, but certainly the most natural of transitions in consciousness. Those fearless 21st century explorers, who reach beyond the limits of self and the known, into the universal dimension of being... find that to be aware is our birthright. In awakening, we touch each others souls and in union, we rise. I digress... 😉

While Yoga does emphasize the UNION between the Atman and Brahman, Tantra revels in the dynamic and essentially sexual interplay between Shiva and Shakti, the immaterial and the material, the transcendent and the immanent. When we see the historical interrelationship between the major Hindu belief systems, it is plain to see that all are aimed at a direct and most personal interphase with the living Spirit... the Oneness.

We are surrounded by the Divine and are in fact, embodiments of Divinity. All life is in it's truest nature, the Dance of Spirit. Loosing itself in it's own performance. Our returning is the returning of the Omniself. This is a pretty cool reality to perceive. 8)



Peace, love & light
 
Tantra, which is mainly concerned with the mind.
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..this is an interesting definition. I had generally assumed the difference between Yoga, & Tantra, was that Yoga focuses within the self (Right Handed,
no substances, celibacy in cases), while Tantra expands outwards (Left handed, substances, sex in cases). At least this is how they appear to have been
practised in the wider world.
..putting Ayurveda in the equation and forming a trinity (or is that 'trident') is a more satisfactory sounding definition to me.

But how can science ever truly be done with subjective experience? Perhaps only in the case of one's own observation/experience.
Perhaps rather than being a science, Tantra is a system of exercies & philosophy (like Yoga). Ayurveda, i can see as science (as well as spiritual)...
 
Tantra, sutra, myriads of practices....whatever: there are many paths, for many types of seekers:

"The Buddha, having considered the various mental capacities of sentient beings, taught the various vehicles of the Dharma ...
As far as sentient beings are concerned, different kinds of teaching are necessary to suit their various mental capacities, whether modest, middling or exceptional ... their purpose in all cases is to set beings on the path to liberation, and the final destination is the same irrespective of the point of departure."

-Zurchungpa's Testament, by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
 
pau said:
Tantra, sutra, myriads of practices....whatever: there are many paths, for many types of seekers:

"The Buddha, having considered the various mental capacities of sentient beings, taught the various vehicles of the Dharma ...
As far as sentient beings are concerned, different kinds of teaching are necessary to suit their various mental capacities, whether modest, middling or exceptional ... their purpose in all cases is to set beings on the path to liberation, and the final destination is the same irrespective of the point of departure."

-Zurchungpa's Testament, by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
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Agreed!!! Nicely put, friend. Thanks for the lovely encapsulation of what I have struggled to say in far more words. Truly, each pathway is tailored for the individual traveling it and by their own inner calling, so it's perfectly natural to have many avenues into the Infinite Way of Spirit. This is a watercolor & ink painting I did approximately 30 years ago. It represents the quintessential Indian Rishi and is a symbolic portrait (loosely based my own own Gurudev, Sri Swami Satchidananda).

I just thought I'd share it and while it is a tangent from the discussion, it does reflect some of the symbolic imagery we might perceive in the West, about the Sages of India. Or at least... what we used to perceive, back in the hippie days of yore. 😉
 

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Ive met quite a few sannyasins, some of the original Osho followers. A good number of them are or were into drugs, some not very stable people (but some amazing characters too). Quite a few turned into the ayahuasca way too.

Apparently Nick Sand was an Osho follower for some period in Oregon, while also making lsd.

Whether Osho condemned entheogens in his books, fact is a lot of his close circle was definitely into it.

Also, what does it matter osho's opinion on psychedelics, you're the one taking so you're the one to decide whether you should take it or not.

By the way yeah I totally agree with house, its absurdly contradicting the rolls royce story. Some followers use all sorts of excusing justifications, but regardless, it is money that could have been used to do a lot of productive sustainable good, specially in a country such as india, and yet it wasnt. He may say some nice things but actions > words.. I cant fall for this guru thing.
 
pau said:
RS- what beautiful art....and powerful! What about prints????????
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Thank you! This is another painting from a similar time period, this time with acrylic paints. While the subject matter is completely different in content, it falls into the same region of transcendental experience, however alternately achieved. It was painted during the afterglow, the day after an intense experience with Mescalito. I call it Peyote Dreamer.

BTW, I realize this isn't show and tell or some platform to exhibit my thinly viewed and oh-so-transparent ego parade. Please forgive me if this comes off as trite and self serving. It's just that I wanted to contribute something more positive, after putting the stink-eye on
Osho: The Guru formerly known as Bhagwan Sri Swami Rajneesh.

Obviously, I digress and ask for your forbearance and flexibility, one and all. Usually, I just talk on and on and on and on...
Long Wind: the Artist formerly known as Rising Spirit 😉
 

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Nice work Rising Spirit, you were an excellent artist at some point in life:lol: I've been enjoying the discussion and the native american painting made me think of Joseph Rael. You seem well traveled among the various spiritual teachings and was wondering if you were familiar with any of his works and what you think. He's of Pueblo/Ute heritage and much of his teachings have an almost eastern quality, yet very earthy and metaphorical at the same time.
 
Everything in this world must be good... If your looking two, Though can you be sure that my love is true or even for you:)?
And everything in this world must be god... if your looking through, But who realized our ability to DO?

"Well you see kids I started in mum's tummy and I'll end in the earth... just like my farther and his before him"

"I'm a man with a plan and my plan is not ram"

-So much info I let go of the no-no, place that isn't space, has no pace or face, or even grace?-

I think there is grace,
I have been told that it can be awful. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/the-awful-grace.html
->many people have told me, wouldn't have been able to figure it out all on my own.

Do we need justice now... and who, If anybody, will serve us with it?
Nobody can
body can
do the can can
I'm going to eat a banana! It reminds me of Humans being...
 
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