Technique - A way to pull NPS out...

[Adzy]

#*#*READ THIS!!!*#*#
THIS TOPIC IS FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE FAMILIAR, COMFORTABLE AND HAVE A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THE DANGERS INVOLVED WITH USING HDPE PLASTIC VESSELS WITH THE CHEMICALS USED IN EXTRACTIONS UNDERTAKEN IF USED INCORRECTLY. IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS OR DONT KNOW THEN DO NOT USE AND OR STOP USING HDPE UNTIL YOU HAVE APPROPRIATE KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING AS YOU MAY PUT YOUR HEALTH IN DANGER!!!!!
here is a link to a small example of my opinion on HDPE for any one interested, however if you do read it dont just assume that i am right and all is factual as i am of no reputable chemistry background beside my own pursuit in interests.
HDPE - my insight to the ol age debate - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus


ive been studying from this glorious site for the last few months now and decided to i'd better join up and join in with conversations to further progress my knowledge and to also share outcomes or ideas i may come across. On that note last night during my first extraction (100g ACRB-Earthwalkers twist on cyb's atb salt tek) i thought of what i think is a quite resourceful idea for the retrieval of NPS from the basic soup.

basically... all it is... is a rated plastic hose coming out of a bottle cap... yep... quite simple, effective and boring i know. A light bulb has either turned on in your head right now or... you think im an idiot haha.

i was frustrated in the tedious task of pipetting my naptha and also the inability to suck up all my naptha with out bringing soup along with it. so I had a hdpe 2 squirter bottle for chemicals which i robbed the hose from, then i grabbed a spare bottle cap and drilled a hole in it slightly smaller then the hose for a nice tight fit... i got my hose and flared one end... which i then pushed through the hole in the cap from inside the bottle out having the flared hose end inside the bottle so that the hose could be sitting as flush as it could be for optimum effect without popping out. All that was left was to screw the cap on and squeeze the bottle which pushed the naptha up and through the hose and into my glass 'pulled NPS' jar :d i was able to get just about down to the last drop as i watched the basic soup start to rise up the hose

this took basically all the tedious and at moments frustrating parts out of the entire extraction and easily cut down the time it was taking me to pull the naptha out by... i dont even know... ALOT! lol
Its easy, fast and allows you to get basically all of the NPS without having to take any extra steps in retrieving it... its worked a treat for me and should do the same for anybody else interested

well i hope this becomes useful to atleast one person... let me know your thoughts, whether you like it or not... i am well aware of the 'glass v plastic' debate from posts ive read. My opinion is if your using the properly rated plastic and keeping it inside its limits then its perfectly safe to use, its convenient and can save a headache if your glass bottle decides to vacant your blood sweat and tears all over the floor! hope to hear your thoughts!

 

[1ce]

That's a pretty great idea ! I like seeing creative ideas from the members here. Thanks for sharing =]

 

[frobot]

Very cool! That is definitely the most tedious part.
A seperatory funnel is great but those can cost quite a bit and they can break. And as 1ce said, I also like to see people getting creative.

 

[Adzy]

ah well thanks 1ce and frobot! appreciate the replies. made it worth the retype of it after the page reloaded on me lol.

 

[null24]

Huh.
:thumb_up:

 

[BringsUsTogether]

so kinda like a mini sep funnel huh?

I like it. One question though, how do you make sure the hose part is sealed well and that no nps will spill out.

 

[Adzy]

you just punch a smaller then the hose hole and heat it slightly then ush it through... like making a bong with a plastic bottle. its sealed enough to handle the task as there wont be any pressure build up

 

[3rdI]

could you please add which plastic rating is safe to use with solvent, i think this may be useful for anyone who see's this thread and wants to use it.

cheers

 

[Chan]

I made a "ghetto separatory funnel" as follows:

Took a large food-safe ziplock bag (polythene, so fairly safe for most solvents).

Put bag inside jug/pan (to hold shape) and filled with basified soup. Sealed bag.

Using clothes pins/pegs, I clipped it to a rail by the top, so it hung like a diamond.

Had collection vessels ready, and scissors.

Snipped off the tiniest piece of the bottom corner, and let the liquid flow, switching vessels at the right time.

Worked great. To be safe, you probably wouldn't want to leave soup in bags any longer than necessary.

EDIT: If you're nervous, do a dummy run with water and vegetable oil to test your rig! Obv you need one bag per pull.

What I prefer to do now, is use a 2-liter glass cider bottle ("demijohn" type) with a nice stubby neck that holds about 50ml. Fill with soup up to base of neck, topping up with a little water if necessary won't affect pH. Add solvent, shake, pipette out. Just remember that if you're doing a heated pull, cold soup WILL expand up into neck during warming, so wait until warm before final adjustment/topping off.

 

[Adzy]

i just use bottles with the number 2 inside the recycle symbol.

the best bit about this idea is that unlike a seperatory funnel you can squeeze the bottle to push the small amount of NPS out the top and then do your next fresh pull, the bottles i use are quite skinny at the top so when i push the NPS out the surface area is really small so i leave next to no NPS behind. tomorrow ill put some pictures up with the bottle and all. may even do some dummy runs with oil and water to get a few snaps to show how well it works

 

[3rdI]

HDPE and solvents has come up time and time again, the general suggestion is dont use it. do a search for more indepth reasoning

Phillips lists two major classes of chemicals that are not compatible with HDPE: aromatic hydrocarbons, and halogenated hydrocarbons. The basic aromatic hydrocarbon is benzene (a major component of gasoline); others are toluene (also called methylbenzene), and the three xylenes (o-, m-and p-xylene). Others include naphthalene (moth balls), and pdichlorobenzene (also moth balls). These aromatic hydrocarbons "permeate excessively and cause package deformation," says Phillips.

Source

The company that makes HDPE states that these solvents permeate excessively and cause package deformation...there are documented cases of HDPE extraction vessels failing or becoming incredibly thin when exposed to these solvents...there are documented cases of HDPE landfill liners failing in the presence of these solvents.

I guess the question is...what makes you so sure that it is safe that you contradict the statements by the manufacturer and ridicule the people who suggest using HDPE may introduce unwanted products into your extraction? From a harm reduction standpoint, this is puzzling.

i have no idea why people would want to risk there health becasue they are lazy and cant spend 5 minutes removing solvents with a glass syringe, but then again i like being alive and healthy.

you can do what you like but suggesting people do something without listing the possible dangers is irresponsible

 

[Adzy]

fair call 3rdI,

i dont think i was telling people to use plastic and disregard any hazards that there may be. ive looked into the matter and came to my opinionated conclusion that with regards to how i do my extractions i dont feel im putting myself at harm, therefore sharing an idea with fellow plastic enthusiasts. i shall read over my initial words and if it does appear to sound different from how i intended i shall edit accordingly.

from what ive come to learn prior to using hdpe for those interested, is that shellite/naphtha does indeed dissolve hdpe plastic caused by the .1% of ethylbenzene added to the solvent which also needs to be hot to do damage, while the 30% hexane in the mix has no short term effects until the solvent reaches over 100'C. however a 36% ethylbenzene solute could cause 5% of my 1L/100g bottle to melt over a 5 hour period, but while no real actual known deadly chemicals are released by hdpe plastic bottles,it lets the mind rest slightly at ease.

but we arent working with 36% ethylbenzene so i took a look at what the real dissolution effect could be on my 1L bottle. my method is by no means going to be accuriate but it was worth a small insite to a possibility.

i worked from my bottle that weighed in at 96 grams but i moved it to 100g just to make it easier to work with. the 36% ethylbenzene if indeed it did disintegrate 5% would be 5%/5g of the bottle. being that shellite has .1% ethylbenzene, linearly it would disintegrate .0138g of plastic (5g/(36x10)=.0138)
but i doubt i works linearly so i doubled its effect to get .0276g which then made me think of surface area. using 50ml pulls would only maybe take an exaggerated 10% surface area while resting after agitating, giving it time to effect the plastic.

so the 10% of area the solvent has the most amount of time to work with would only maybe disintegrate .00276 grams of the plastic over 5 hours. now obviously this all sounds like mumbo jumbo and wouldnt be real figures but it surely gives a better insight as to how bad using hdpe actually is. on top of that, being its in a solution and not being lit on fire would change the rate of how it would break down and considering hdpe is a polar molecule it would be trying to repel the solvent unless the solvent was upward of 80'C, which no one should be doing pulls with and even if they were the solvent would reach an equilibrium to fast for it to admit much damage.

but i conclude this, with a possible half using HDPE plastic while the other half that are using glass just pour their solvent out of a HDPE bottle thats been sitting around at the shop and then their home for who knows how long....

 

[3rdI]

morning Adzy,
im glad you researched what you are doing and it looks like you have come to a conclusion from decent research.

My fear with these things is that people will just see "plastic" and think that plastics OK. The amount of people i see who dont do any decent research is massive, there are alot of posts on here that claim to have done the research but they clearly havent and when i use the exact terms of there post i can quite quickly find the info on the forum. It seems to me that they have just taken the first piece of info that fits what they want to do and run with it, this is why i thought it would be a good idea to add a comment that HDPE isnt safe/designed for use with solvents used for extraction.

The more experienced chemist on the forum all suggest that glass is better than plastic and I tend to go with them. Risk minimisation is important on the forum as we need to try to keep as many people as safe as possible. It might be good to start a thread with that info in as i havent noticed any posts that are as detailed as your explanation of why you feel its safe, but maybe i havent searched enough:d

 

[Adzy]

morning 3rdI!
i hope you didnt see my post directed at you personally, i really need to work on my openings to posts i think! before i started doing extractions i spent a little over 3 months just reading topics on this site, i didnt have a membership and hadnt even thought of getting one, i was just gathering as much info as i could.

i read alot of threads about plastic and glass and found 2 very different opinions, neither of which seemed as though they had a decent argument and basically just like you mentioned, take small snippets of info from other peoples opinions which whom also had no solid argument. sure you can find a chemical chart but i dont think people really read about the environment that the testing had been held under, the chemical ratio from a mdsd sheet or even consider the degree of which they will be using it.

but i do find there are alot of people here not overly interested in anything but just getting that spice outa there. they arent interested in the knowledge or intrigued by the art to get to the spice and hence the same topics starting over and over again.

now that ive properly looked at the original post i can see how ive almost just came in and stated my idea and basically said every man for them selves so i shall start a new topic about hdpe then return to retype the first paragraph here and also link the new post.

thanks for your attention 3rdI, and also for your valuable words of fellow nexusian safety!

 

[3rdI]

i take every post as if it was written by a smiling friend of mine, i think reading intention into text is dodgy so if im gonna do it i apply good intention and friendlyness.

but i do find there are alot of people here not overly interested in anything but just getting that spice outa there. they arent interested in the knowledge or intrigued by the art to get to the spice and hence the same topics starting over and over again.

i agree and it this that worries me. Im not especially good at chemistry and only have knowledge i have managed to get from the forum, but i have a lot of time to plow through it all and i know alot of people like me dont.

now that ive properly looked at the original post i can see how ive almost just came in and stated my idea and basically said every man for them selves so i shall start a new topic about hdpe then return to retype the first paragraph here and also link the new post.

i think that would be useful.