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Botany The Acacia Grow Thread
- Thread starter acacian
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Growing logs with advice and results.
Thanks! And on that note, my own wattle babies could do with a bit of cheering up, in the form of new pots and better compost, especially since having come under the care of a less-experienced gardener while I was away travelling. I had hoped to sort this out before going away, but life had other plans in the form of flooding.
Hope they get better soon @Transform
Remember too that Wattles are not fans of abundance of phosphorus.. which compost can be quite rich in. Most Australian natives don't deal very well with high phosphorus levels in soil. I'd maybe get a low phosphorus fert. An oz native plant fert like osmocote you should be able to find online.
I'd also prick them out and get them in their own pots ASAP as disentangling roots once they're more established will be more risky.. the tap root doesn't like being damaged/disturbed
Remember too that Wattles are not fans of abundance of phosphorus.. which compost can be quite rich in. Most Australian natives don't deal very well with high phosphorus levels in soil. I'd maybe get a low phosphorus fert. An oz native plant fert like osmocote you should be able to find online.
I'd also prick them out and get them in their own pots ASAP as disentangling roots once they're more established will be more risky.. the tap root doesn't like being damaged/disturbed
Brickwall_55
Esteemed member
Hi everyone,
I have a few questions about growing obtusifolia, courtii, and floribunda.
I understand how to grow these plants from seed—using a scrape and hot soak to help them germinate. However, I'm curious about the alkaloid content in plants grown from cuttings or tissue culture. If I find a tree that is producing a lot and want to expand, would it be better to take cuttings or clone it using agar? Or would the alkaloid content be similar to a tree grown from seed?
I think cloning might be better because there’s a chance that seeds from a tree could be hybrids if it has crossbred with another acacia variety. any advice would be appreciated.
I have a few questions about growing obtusifolia, courtii, and floribunda.
I understand how to grow these plants from seed—using a scrape and hot soak to help them germinate. However, I'm curious about the alkaloid content in plants grown from cuttings or tissue culture. If I find a tree that is producing a lot and want to expand, would it be better to take cuttings or clone it using agar? Or would the alkaloid content be similar to a tree grown from seed?
I think cloning might be better because there’s a chance that seeds from a tree could be hybrids if it has crossbred with another acacia variety. any advice would be appreciated.
Yes cloning would ensure true to type characteristics and genetics.. however it is notoriously difficult with Acacia compared to other natives. Absolutely worth trying though as it has been done with success. I haven't had success with cuttings personally but only tried a couple times a few years ago.
You will want to cut very cleanly with a sterilised blade just below a node. You don't want much foliage.. remove about 2 thirds up the stem leaving the upper foliage. Maybe even trim the left over foliage to half it's size. You don't want the material to be putting too much energy into the foliage or flowers.. so remove any flowers too. Seriously don't be afraid to be pretty agressive. Its going to initially look like an ugly stump but it needs the chance to put as much energy into forming roots as possible. I'd then soak in an anti fungal solution for a few minutes, dip in a rooting hormone like clonex and plant in a mix of perlite and coir or a mix of gravel and loam. Perlite is good for cuttings as it holds moisture and is relatively sterile. Don't let the bottom of the stem touch the bottom of the pot as the roots can become attached!
Sterilisation is super important when taking cuttings.. always have a spray bottle of either ethanol or isopropyl handy. Clean your hands regularly, change gloves, wipe surfaces etc. Bacteria can be an ally for plants but not when taking cuttings.
I'm afraid that is all I can offer @Brickwall_55 .. I have limited experience taking cuttings of other natives at work and I am largely going on that. Although it seems fairly consistent with the method Marion Simmons uses. Also, growing out collected seed from said specimens is still an entirely worthwhile venture and is still realistically a great chance of preserving some type characteristics of the plant in question. Don't be scared of that.. its great to collect seed and grow it. The species you mentioned are reliable.. seed should be fine for cultivating them. But if you can get cuttings to work then great. But seed offers cool possibilities like hybridisation too! Best of luck with it and please share your results with us
Below is some info by Marion Simmons.. the wattle whisperer. I highly recommend her books they are absolutely delightful.. and useful.
You will want to cut very cleanly with a sterilised blade just below a node. You don't want much foliage.. remove about 2 thirds up the stem leaving the upper foliage. Maybe even trim the left over foliage to half it's size. You don't want the material to be putting too much energy into the foliage or flowers.. so remove any flowers too. Seriously don't be afraid to be pretty agressive. Its going to initially look like an ugly stump but it needs the chance to put as much energy into forming roots as possible. I'd then soak in an anti fungal solution for a few minutes, dip in a rooting hormone like clonex and plant in a mix of perlite and coir or a mix of gravel and loam. Perlite is good for cuttings as it holds moisture and is relatively sterile. Don't let the bottom of the stem touch the bottom of the pot as the roots can become attached!
Sterilisation is super important when taking cuttings.. always have a spray bottle of either ethanol or isopropyl handy. Clean your hands regularly, change gloves, wipe surfaces etc. Bacteria can be an ally for plants but not when taking cuttings.
I'm afraid that is all I can offer @Brickwall_55 .. I have limited experience taking cuttings of other natives at work and I am largely going on that. Although it seems fairly consistent with the method Marion Simmons uses. Also, growing out collected seed from said specimens is still an entirely worthwhile venture and is still realistically a great chance of preserving some type characteristics of the plant in question. Don't be scared of that.. its great to collect seed and grow it. The species you mentioned are reliable.. seed should be fine for cultivating them. But if you can get cuttings to work then great. But seed offers cool possibilities like hybridisation too! Best of luck with it and please share your results with us
Below is some info by Marion Simmons.. the wattle whisperer. I highly recommend her books they are absolutely delightful.. and useful.
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Animistic
Established member
@Brickwall_55
I can't comment on tissue culture or cuttings because I've never done it successfully. But I highly recommend NOT using even warm water with scarification as I seem to have lost all Phleb seeds. All courtii sprouted very well, phleb have withered and some have even begun to split apart.
I can't comment on tissue culture or cuttings because I've never done it successfully. But I highly recommend NOT using even warm water with scarification as I seem to have lost all Phleb seeds. All courtii sprouted very well, phleb have withered and some have even begun to split apart.
I believe courtii isn't too bad to grow from cuttings. I think shaman-australis had a few topics on it. I found one from memory here and I think there's a new updated thread with a guide but at a quick search I couldn't find it. Acacia courtii propagation from cuttings
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Quick update: scarification and cold water soaking underway. After sowing one of the sprouted seeds it has thrown off its jacket and looks very pale...do you reckon this looks normal guys?
I'm collecting some soil from an older acacia today for the rhizobium (forgot to do it!) Do I just gently scrape the top surface around the base of the tree?
I'm collecting some soil from an older acacia today for the rhizobium (forgot to do it!) Do I just gently scrape the top surface around the base of the tree?
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Thanks for sharing Trip! Had completely forgotten about that post.. that’s super encouraging.
@CheeseCat .. the cotelydon can vary in colour ime with different species. I wouldn’t think it’s too much cause for concern. Keep a close eye on it though.
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Sweet, thanks! It's now changed to a pale pink/red colour. I've just put 3 more seeds in tubes this morning and added soil from an established acacia to the medium. Should I cover the cotyledons with more medium or are they ok as is?
Second pic is the established acacia. I scraped the surface soil that was under fallen phyllodes, still quite dry but hopefully it will introduce rhizobium...
Second pic is the established acacia. I scraped the surface soil that was under fallen phyllodes, still quite dry but hopefully it will introduce rhizobium...
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The cotyledons should be fine. Its totally normal for them to be exposed and shed the seed coat.
You can also buy the bradyrhizobium bacteria online to innoculate with. There is a product called WattleGrow that can be purchased through some suppliers. Since not all wattles seem to have rhizomes growing off their roots, this might be a more reliable way to innoculate your seeds. I'll have to get some and do some side by sides.. but in that article they do this too. There is a clear difference in growth rate observed.
You can also buy the bradyrhizobium bacteria online to innoculate with. There is a product called WattleGrow that can be purchased through some suppliers. Since not all wattles seem to have rhizomes growing off their roots, this might be a more reliable way to innoculate your seeds. I'll have to get some and do some side by sides.. but in that article they do this too. There is a clear difference in growth rate observed.
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CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Awesome, cheers for that info My mucronata have started to sprout! Some of the floribunda seeds are tougher than expected and didn't swell even after two hot water treatments (small seed worked well though). I ended up using a file and re soaking them in cold water which got them swole with a nice change of colour.
My mucronata have started to sprout! Some of the floribunda seeds are tougher than expected and didn't swell even after two hot water treatments (small seed worked well though). I ended up using a file and re soaking them in cold water which got them swole with a nice change of colour.
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Scarification and cold water tek really works well! So far, a single A. phlebophylla sprouting after about one week (pic 1) and A. mucronata showing some nice tails. Wondering if there's an optimal length the tails should be before planting? A. mucronata looks ready to go.
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That's a good questions @CheeseCat .. you can get away with it getting longer if you remember to orient the root down. But its less fiddly to just orient the seed with the eye down as soon as you see it sprout. Then the root is probably absorbing nutrients from the soil from the get go.
Animistic
Established member
An update on this end. I was away from my house for a bit and came home to a few things that made me go 
in relation to my acacia seedlings.
It's been hard to get the right microclimate here because the block is either really shady or really sunny. The courtii I sowed first have come up really spindly. And then a bush turkey got into the one of the other trays, not lots of casualties but enough that I'm sad. So I fixed them up and put them in a new make shift green house with 2 of my other saplings, hopefully they will appreciate this spot much better.
in relation to my acacia seedlings.It's been hard to get the right microclimate here because the block is either really shady or really sunny. The courtii I sowed first have come up really spindly. And then a bush turkey got into the one of the other trays, not lots of casualties but enough that I'm sad. So I fixed them up and put them in a new make shift green house with 2 of my other saplings, hopefully they will appreciate this spot much better.
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CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Hey guys, hope the growing is going well. Here’s where I’m at with my seeds:
Courtii is growing really well, germinates easily and so far grows effortlessly.
Some mucronata and floribunda have come to a standstill, stuck in a partially open position. Some look slightly off colour too. Not sure if this is normal? (see pic)
Question about Phlebs - once they have swollen is it preferable to keep them in their germination box until they sprout or should I proceed to sow them? I realise they might take several weeks to germinate… @acacian, I remember you said that your phlebs germinated in winter. Would keeping the scarified/swollen seeds in the fridge help them to germinate faster?
@Animistic, how's your courtii going in the greenhouse? Any improvements? The sun is pretty tricky where I am too!
Courtii is growing really well, germinates easily and so far grows effortlessly.
Some mucronata and floribunda have come to a standstill, stuck in a partially open position. Some look slightly off colour too. Not sure if this is normal? (see pic)
Question about Phlebs - once they have swollen is it preferable to keep them in their germination box until they sprout or should I proceed to sow them? I realise they might take several weeks to germinate… @acacian, I remember you said that your phlebs germinated in winter. Would keeping the scarified/swollen seeds in the fridge help them to germinate faster?
@Animistic, how's your courtii going in the greenhouse? Any improvements? The sun is pretty tricky where I am too!
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Phleb can take ages to germinate.. sometimes several months; so for this reason I would sow them. It is true that I had some come up in winter.. they’re pretty remarkable in that regard! However I had many more come up in summer than in winter so I’d by no means say cold is preferable. In good typical germ conditions.. I.e warm and humid, they tend to come up more. Always erratically!
Some people have had good results in doing cold stratification in the fridge. Worth trying a few approaches with phleb and seeing what works for you.. but the one thing I’d keep constant is that manual nicking of the seed followed by soak in cold water gives better germ rates than boiling water.
Could you show some pics of your off colour seedlings? If that is the white willow flori then some seeds will produce yellow seedlings. Discard those.. they’re not strong seeds. There’s a few runts in the lot.. they’ll grow extremely slow and stay yellow. Unless variegation is an obsession I’d just get rid of the bad seedlings.
How long has the mucronata been like that?
Glad to hear it’s going well @CheeseCat
Some people have had good results in doing cold stratification in the fridge. Worth trying a few approaches with phleb and seeing what works for you.. but the one thing I’d keep constant is that manual nicking of the seed followed by soak in cold water gives better germ rates than boiling water.
Could you show some pics of your off colour seedlings? If that is the white willow flori then some seeds will produce yellow seedlings. Discard those.. they’re not strong seeds. There’s a few runts in the lot.. they’ll grow extremely slow and stay yellow. Unless variegation is an obsession I’d just get rid of the bad seedlings.
How long has the mucronata been like that?
Glad to hear it’s going well @CheeseCat
CheeseCat
Esteemed member
Sweet, thanks. I’ll get the phlebs in some soil and be very patient. I think what I’ll do for my second attempt is to sow all my seeds in one tray. Once I can see which ones are the healthiest I’ll put them in individual tubes.
Here’s a pic of one that doesn’t look so healthy, it’s a flori NSW QLD border seed. It may come right though. The mucronata have been in this half open position for about 1 week or more. They were quick to germinate but once in tubes slowed down. One still has its jacket half on and can’t seem to figure out how to get it off. I have wondered if my mix is a bit too compact for them.
Here’s a pic of one that doesn’t look so healthy, it’s a flori NSW QLD border seed. It may come right though. The mucronata have been in this half open position for about 1 week or more. They were quick to germinate but once in tubes slowed down. One still has its jacket half on and can’t seem to figure out how to get it off. I have wondered if my mix is a bit too compact for them.
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Actually I did notice that this species can not look like its doing much for a wee bit.. and then boom.