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"The Culture"

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hexagonomicon said:
I've personally explored the darkest most evil parts of my psyche and have come out much stronger because of it. I've learned to embrace the often terrifying and morbid aspects of tripping because I know that the experience is part of something "larger" and more important than just checking out the cool colors and trails.
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Sounds like something I'd like to challenge myself with...
 
Just because some people prefer to take psychedelics while smoking pot listening to techno in their basements with black lights as opposed to those sitting in a circle in a wig warm chanting doesn't mean they don't have respect for the substance's they are taking. This is what I mean but the 'holier then thou' attitude. Just because westerners don't put some feathers on their heads and dance around a fire chanting doesn't they don't have respect for the power of these substances. The entire ritual set up for traditional ayahuasca ceremonies has the EXACT SAME purpose as black lights and techno for others. Its to make a comfortable or conducive environment to experience an altered state of consciousness. Just because one culture has been doing it longer doesn't mean their way is better or worse.
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I totally agree.

What about sythetic medicine that saves lives should that also be illegal?
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No. I only believe in "Botanicals = legal / Drugs = illegal" for psychoactives, not medicinals.
 
wake and bacon said:
While you bring up a good point, burnt, that last statement is a pretty shitty thing to say. The MMJ movement is not out there just so people can legally smoke recreationally. Those who take advantage of it are the 'pretenders', whos abuse of the system harms the movement itself, but there are those who can (and should) truly use it as 'medicine'. Would you say most of those prescribed to painkillers (not the best analogy, but...) are just putting up a front so they can get fucked up? I certainly wouldn't say so in every case.
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I disagree sir, MMJ movement SHOULD be about the right to do whatever you want to do with your body as long as you do not hurt anyone. As Doug Stanhope said (watch it,this is burnts point)



The one and only rule/law/commandment/proverb that we all need to follow:

Do anything you want, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of another being.
 
Ok coatl just wanted to clear up what you meant about drugs. Its such a broad term.

Anyway I see what you mean hexa. SWIM tends not to care about visuals either when SWIM wants to go deep. SWIM aims often to explore the depths. But that's SWIMs aim. Same with many people here. But that doesn't mean that such an aim is better or worse then playing super mario on acid. Who cares if people want to sit around sending text messages to their friends while they are tripping face? Its their fun. If they have a bad trip and learn the depths and power of these substances its their problem or a new avenue for them to explore. Most people start out tripping just for fun. But many end up realizing that tripping is either not for them because the fun part went away and they saw the serious part or they realize that there is much more to tripping and it becomes a powerful psychological tool. I think this should be left for people to find out for themselves and not be forced on them by odd rituals or initiations piled up with dogma and religious traditions.
 
I agree, the recent absurd criminalization of the N, N - dimethyltryptamine and it´s psychedelic friends do not help us in any way, rather it totally alienates us from ourselves. Peace to all.
 
burnt said:
Ok coatl just wanted to clear up what you meant about drugs. Its such a broad term.

Anyway I see what you mean hexa. SWIM tends not to care about visuals either when SWIM wants to go deep. SWIM aims often to explore the depths. But that's SWIMs aim. Same with many people here. But that doesn't mean that such an aim is better or worse then playing super mario on acid. Who cares if people want to sit around sending text messages to their friends while they are tripping face? Its their fun. If they have a bad trip and learn the depths and power of these substances its their problem or a new avenue for them to explore. Most people start out tripping just for fun. But many end up realizing that tripping is either not for them because the fun part went away and they saw the serious part or they realize that there is much more to tripping and it becomes a powerful psychological tool. I think this should be left for people to find out for themselves and not be forced on them by odd rituals or initiations piled up with dogma and religious traditions.
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Exactly. I started taking psychedelics for fun when I was youngers. I wanted to trip and see amazing fractal colours, and fairies, and elves, and dwarves and I did have alot of good times but psychedelics eventually became so much more to me. The fact of the matter is that this should be about freedom. Dressing it up and putting make up on it so it looks acceptable to society is only a band-aid. A band aid that will get ripped of when people start having techno mushroom parties.

Do what you want because you want to do it, while respecting your fellow man. In order to do that we must prove that these substances are completely safe. Sure, we know that they are safe, but most of society doesn't. I'm correcting people all the time about the safety of psychedelics mentally and physically. Even though ayawaska, mushrooms, and cacti have been proven safe by thousands of years of bio-assay, the propaganda that was put out by the government during the pychedelic era of the mid 60's through late 70's.

I actually have a proposal. I'm going to start another thread for this but I'll state it here. I want to gather every shread of evidence about the positive effects of psychedelics and every example possible of how psychedelics have improve America, and build up a website. I don't know much about starting up my own website, but I'm willing to learn. Yes there are great truths on this site, but they are scattered throughout varies pages and what have you. I want to build something that is dedicated solely to the edification of psychedelics.
 
VisualDistortion said:
I actually have a proposal. I'm going to start another thread for this but I'll state it here. I want to gather every shread of evidence about the positive effects of psychedelics and every example possible of how psychedelics have improve America, and build up a website. I don't know much about starting up my own website, but I'm willing to learn. Yes there are great truths on this site, but they are scattered throughout varies pages and what have you. I want to build something that is dedicated solely to the edification of psychedelics.
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That is a great idea!! And could really save an ass or two (or free them) eventually!!

I'll keep an eye open & let you know if I see something.

Don't know if you read through this or not, but it popped into my head when I read your idea there:
Cluster headaches & Tryptamines

It's a start!!

WS
 
Just to say, this is a very important topic atm IMO. Good one for bringing it up, and so thoughtfully.

My opinion, is that the healing/shamanic side of entheogens/tripping has a place in modern urban society, as a tool for healing .. I'm not sure how it would be best to integrate, I think its happening somehow already, but I think it is one of the steps we need to take in order to sort out the current sorry state of western society. The plants have so much to teach us.

I also agree about the context thing - to me dancing all night to techno while 'on it' or not, can be a truly healing and unifiying experience, I believe as much as a traditional aya or cactus ceremony could be (not that I have experience with either). I do think that there is way too much 'lets get off out tits' attitude amongst people, at least those that I know. Very few seem prepared for the work of exploring hyperspace/inner space in a proper way, using their intent. The idea that one can gain knowledge from these realms seems quite radical to a lot of people.

I for one feel like I am on a new mission, to try and integrate the use of psychoactive 'medicine' into my local society. I am only starting out and I may be being naive about it (I have a few years of working on myself to go!) but I truly feel the need to help heal the sick around me. I dont think psychedelics are the only tool, and may not be necessary but they sure can accelerate things.
I agree its important to form a model that fits our society.
 
I started a new thread in the General Discussions section of the forum called, "Stating the case of psychedelics". I hope you guys can drop in and I look forward to your input.
 
burnt said:
You hit it dead on! That is the difference between the USER showing respect to the drug versus just treating it like a party drug.
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How can you judge people like that? Just because some people prefer to take psychedelics while smoking pot listening to techno in their basements with black lights as opposed to those sitting in a circle in a wig warm chanting doesn't mean they don't have respect for the substance's they are taking. This is what I mean but the 'holier then thou' attitude. Just because westerners don't put some feathers on their heads and dance around a fire chanting doesn't they don't have respect for the power of these substances. The entire ritual set up for traditional ayahuasca ceremonies has the EXACT SAME purpose as black lights and techno for others. Its to make a comfortable or conducive environment to experience an altered state of consciousness. Just because one culture has been doing it longer doesn't mean their way is better or worse.

I think ayahuasca churches or other groups that use these substances are in some cases actively brainwashing people into believing in their 'gods' or accepting their culture as the 'true path'. Shamans can be just as stuck in dogmatic belief systems as those in a modern day churches. Not all of them are like that though.

This is one of the reasons I think botanicals should be legal and drugs illegal.
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What about sythetic medicine that saves lives should that also be illegal? Its a man made drug. Where do you draw the line between recreation and medicine? You over simplify everything and look at it only from your point of view by painting everything in black and white.

Sometimes I wanna trip face and just have a good time. But other times I want to sit and meditate. And I find it frustrating that group trips seem to only want to be for fun, and that nobody wants to have a serious spiritual trip in a group. I mean, I want to trip with my friends, but sometimes our styles and intentions just don't align.

I think that it's important for like minded people to make a space where they can get together and explore in ways that work for them as a group and as individuals. I'm certainly against trying to solidify any kind of dogma; ideally eclectic beliefs and practices can come together and coexist in a sort of Meta-Paradigm.
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Yea I understand what you mean. I also sometimes want to make more serious explorations not for spiritual reasons more for psychological or scientific reasons. Sometimes people SWIM would trip with would get annoying about stuff like this but SWIM used to have a really good trip crew so didn't see it as a problem. Avoiding dogma is CRITICAL for a culture like this to reach its full potential.

And quite frankly, having "respectable" representatives of the psychedelic community is the only way to end the current persecution of drug users. People are cool with the aya churches because they sit around, light candles, sing, and vomit they're guts out! They don't sit around in black lights smoking pot and listening to techno. And even though you might have just as spiritual of an experience in the black lights and whatnot, people aren't going to take you seriously or respect your experience.
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Yes its important to have respectable members to try and show that psychedelic users aren't all a bunch of hedonistic hippies or something. But again I think its BS that people are fine with ayahuasca churches who in my opinion are actively brainwashing people (even if it makes their communities better off its still based on what I consider lies much like the christian churches) but not fine with people sitting in their basement listening to techno.

Its a cop out to accept people who use drugs in a way that others consider responsible in this case a religious setting while others who use it in another setting are considered wrong or irresponsible. It makes no sense to me. It also shows the weakness of the drug legalization argument. Drugs should be legal for one reason which I already said above. Its about freedom. Standing down and accepting things that are traditional or spiritual as the only forms of acceptable drug use is hypocritical unfair and a complete failure for true freedom.
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Yeah I agree with what you are saying...especially about the rave scene. I LOVE raving to death. I will be involved until the day I die. I just got back from the most beautiful weekend at a really good rave out in the mountains..so many beautiful people..lots of spice I was somewhat surprised to see:d ..smoked lots in the woods in between dancing and blazing, had 2 really beautiful breakthroughs last night...its now my favorite rave entheogen. Soo nice to lay down with friends in blankets and blast off:d with all the neon glow lights and luke brown banners everywhere..overly trippy..and then the afterglow is great for dancing around.

I think that it's good for us to be percieved well by the public..but we cant really contoll that. There is nothing wring with taking acid and listening to electronic music with neon lights and crazy art. It's a gathering, a celebration..and I concider most raves I attent "special" times anyway.. and any substances I take at a rave are always with that intent, thats its a special time, so I just trip all weekend, like a vision quest..and I think the rave scene had changed many people, for the better..whats not shamanic about that?
 
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