The direct e-mesh thread.

[Propello]

Propello,
Thanks for doing such extensive "scientific research" in the name of humanity.
When are you going to test out the Sai TAF!? I've been anxiously awaiting your review.
I currently have the Sai TAF and am considering either buying a spare bucket for DMT, or trying out the Shanti tek. They are about the same price.

A cool hack with the Sai that I found, is that you can unscrew the bucket and use that to weigh the spice. It makes it real clean and easy since there is no chance of loss when transferring the spice after weighing it.

The Sai came yesterday (Sai top airflow with titanium bucet that is). I will post my report as soon as i get to test it properly. Yhanks for the tip about weighing right into the titanium bucket.

Mycowong can you let us know which temp and watt settings you use on the TAF sai? How long do you need to preheat before drawing? Full open airflow or less?
Any tips and tricks for the optimal use of the Top AirFlow Sai are most welcome.

 

[some one]

I use a Pico 75watt in wattage mode @45watts.

 

[Propello]

I use a Pico 75watt in wattage mode @45watts.

Hmmm, the sai manual says 18-25w and 3-400 F temp in Ni TC mode. The coil shows 0,70 ohm so 45w would be high it seems. I'll google a bit around to find settings for the first attempt on the Sai.

Love your amazing work on your 'Wiki' Some One, Impressive amount of work. Thanks for your efforts mate :thumb_up:

 

[5tarDust]

Any tips and tricks for the optimal use of the Top AirFlow Sai are most welcome.

My current setup for the Sai TAF titanium bucket:

- 240 TCR
- 200c
- 25W


This is based on a lot of googling and forum reading.
Most people seemed to agree on these parameters:

- 190-240 TCR. Several people mentioned that the Ni setting runs a little hot on the Sai TAF and they've opted to use TCR instead. I can confirm that when I switched to Ni, leaving everything else the same, there were black marks left in the bucket, indicating that the spice was burnt.
With the 240 TCR it vaporises clean, leaving no residue behind.

- 160-215c

- 20-30w

- Lock the resistance at room temp, whatever yours is. Mine is .67, but it varies with the individual Sai.

My technique: Preheat to 140c, then inhale very slowly for 10-20 seconds, while pulsing a couple times to keep the mod from timing out. Then I hold it for as long as possible.
I leave the vent holes completely open.

 

[mycowong]

Np. I'm pretty sure you can breakthrough with about 15-25mg in this thing. I use it on wattage mode at 45w. I usually heat It up to 50% then hit it near the end of the draw to get the most concentrated hit. Then I hold until I need another breath. Then break through lol every time.

"until I need another breath", another breath of fresh air or another inhalation of spice? "heating it up to 50%", 50% of what? "Then hit", you don't inhale from the start? I might be wrong, but sounds like a learning curve?

I'm also looking forward hearing Propello's comparison of the Sai vs Shanti tek.

Sorry for not going in detail about the 50% thing. It's the bar that shows on the Pico when you press the button to heat it. No you don't inhale from the start because your vape needs to heat up first to attain the desired temperature. Basically if your using a mod heat up the spice a little first before hitting it. I wouldn't say it's a learning curve lol You can even hold it for longer than 50% the concentration of dmt vapor will be much higher and contained in the little Sai. You take the biggest hit your lungs can hit and hold as long as u can.

 

[Propello]

Thanks for The info mycowong. So preheat for 5 sec.
But Can You confirm that You vape at 45w in wattage mode?

Blessings

 

[some one]

Propello, thanks for the complements.

mycowong, aha, sounds easy indeed. What is the taste like? How did you end up using 45w (higher than device spec)? Could you use less power (eg. 25w) and heat longer (eg. 10s) prior inhaling? Did you try TC mode like 5tarDust?

5tarDust, Ni200 has a TCR of 0.00620. You mean set it to 0.00240, correct? I haven't checked and read anything about the device yet, is the coil which heats the titanium bucket Ni? When you say 'people mention using the Ni TC setting runs too hot', are they talking about vaping dmt? If too hot, why not lower the temp instead of adjusting the TCR?

 

[Propello]

.

My technique: Preheat to 140c, then inhale very slowly for 10-20 seconds, while pulsing a couple times to keep the mod from timing out. Then I hold it for as long as possible.
I leave the vent holes completely open.

Early in your post You say You set the temp at 200C, so i suppose you preheat at 140 and then set the temp to 200 C and inhale?

 

[5tarDust]

.

My technique: Preheat to 140c, then inhale very slowly for 10-20 seconds, while pulsing a couple times to keep the mod from timing out. Then I hold it for as long as possible.
I leave the vent holes completely open.

Early in your post You say You set the temp at 200C, so i suppose you preheat at 140 and then set the temp to 200 C and inhale?

Since I use TC mode, I set the max temp to 200c ahead of time.
By "preheat", I just mean that I am pushing the fire button on the mod until the temperature reads around 140c, and at that point I start inhaling, while continuing to press the button on the mod. I don't wait for it to reach 200c before I start inhaling, since it will start to create vapor before then.
Once the mod reaches 200c, it will automatically regulate it so that it remains near 200c. All I have to do is keep holding the button down while inhaling, and the mod will hold the temp near 200c.


This is very similar in approach to Mycowong's wattage technique, where he is pressing the button down for 5 seconds to allow it to heat up some, but not all the way, before he starts to inhale.

I also forgot to add that I pulse the coil for 1-2 seconds to melt the spice after putting it in. This seems to spread it around onto the bucket better and helps it to vaporize more quickly.

 

[5tarDust]

5tarDust, Ni200 has a TCR of 0.00620. You mean set it to 0.00240, correct?

My mod just reads "240", but I assume it is technically 0.00240 and there just isn't enough room on the display to fit the whole thing.

haven't checked and read anything about the device yet, is the coil which heats the titanium bucket Ni? When you say 'people mention using the Ni TC setting runs too hot', are they talking about vaping dmt?

The coil that heats the bucket is a ceramic donut. A lot of the info I read on the subject came from this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/9ass9x/saisaionara_top_air_flow_atomizer

If too hot, why not lower the temp instead of adjusting the TCR?

I'd imagine that would work too. I think it's just not an accurate temperature reading. If you read through the link above, I think some people were reporting that they used Ni mode somewhere in the range of 330f and it worked well.

 

[Propello]

330F/165C seems a bit low. The boiling point is at 160C. I believe spice can take 180-220C before' burning. At least those temps work with mesh, but a cup patent with less surface might be different?


To match The e-mesh The sai should be able clear 30mg+ in in toke, max two. I want to find The optimal settings for max vapor without burning The spice in as few draws as possible.

Blessings

 

[Crispycat]

Sounds intresting!
Just ordered a sai ti should show up in a few days

I'd expect the temperature of the ti bucket itself to be somewhat lower than the coil as calculated below it, but hopefully easier to measure with a cheep laser thermometer, could not get a reading on the 400 mesh

Still loving the mesh it's imensley better than any other method, but have noticed a sticky build up on the wotofo profile directly underneath the mesh area from the load and melt process (over 10 or more uses), hopefully the sai will reduce that wastage and be easier to load

 

[5tarDust]

330F/165C seems a bit low. The boiling point is at 160C. I believe spice can take 180-220C before' burning. At least those temps work with mesh, but a cup patent with less surface might be different?


To match The e-mesh The sai should be able clear 30mg+ in in toke, max two. I want to find The optimal settings for max vapor without burning The spice in as few draws as possible.

Blessings

165c is low, but if you are using Ni mode with the Sai, a reading of 165c means the temperature will actually be higher than 165c, due to the fact that the coil isn't actually Ni. This is the reason a lot of people are using TCR 200-240 instead of Ni mode. Apparently the temp reading is more accurate when using the custom TCR.


I think the following settings might be a good starting point since you are concerned about being able to get it all in one hit:

TCR 240
215c
30w

I think if you go much higher than that you risk burning it in TC mode.

Alternately you could just go with Mycowong's wattage mode method. It seems like his method is essentially the same, it's just more power over less time. Instead of using temperature, he is just timing it. It just requires a bit more finesse. I've tried it both ways when vaping MJ and they both work well.
I've ran mine at 45w before without damaging it or anything. I'm sure it does shorten the coil life a little.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Still loving the mesh it's imensley better than any other method, but have noticed a sticky build up on the wotofo profile directly underneath the mesh area from the load and melt process (over 10 or more uses)

If you load the mesh sideways, like I do, then you don't have this problem, but then you won't be able anymore to use the standard mouthpiece, and would have to create your own.

 

[Crispycat]

If you load the mesh sideways, like I do, then you don't have this problem, but then you won't be able anymore to use the standard mouthpiece, and would have to create your own.

makes sense, at the moment i can get 20 on without having to pree melt so a longer mesh table would be the answer, the 400 mesh is also very springy so the slightest nudge sends crystals flying,
ill have to check the hardware store/ebay for an alternative wider shell and see what other mesh i can acquire :thumb_up:

 

[Propello]

The vandyvape ss316 150 mesh is a lot thicker than The 400, no trouble loading 30 mg

 

[enlightenedvoyager]

The vandyvape ss316 150 mesh is a lot thicker than The 400, no trouble loading 30 mg

This mesh definitely seems like the way to go. No problems with it here :thumb_up:

 

[Crispycat]

awesome will acquire some of the 150 mesh,
after aum_shanti's advice i found a small jar and made a new shell that lets me have a double sized mesh!

 

[Propello]

awesome will acquire some of the 150 mesh,
after aum_shanti's advice i found a small jar and made a new shell that lets me have a double sized mesh!

Looks interesting. Have you made holes on the glass for air intake? Let us know how it worked for you.

I tested the TAF Sai yestereday, put 30mg in the bowl. I tested it with the following setting:
Temp mode NI, standard TCR
max 25w
max 200 degrees C.

prewarmed the spice and cup at 140C, then turned it up to 200C, held fire button for 5 secs and draw. First draw was disappointing, I could feel there wasn't much vapo coming in my throat. Just a few faint visuals. For the second draw, I held the button for 10 seconds, until tthe vapor started to appear. Then inhale, but not so hard this time. This time I felt dense vapor with a bit burned taste, especially at the end of the draw. there were no spice left after the second draw.

The burnt taste ruined it a bit, but at least I got a quick trip to the domain of the elves, lasted only 6-7 minutes. I guess that the burning of some spice did
n't make this round optimal. But it has potential, and it easily beats the motar and Yocan evolve plus already after first try, in sense of using less spice/breakthrough.

The Sai definitively has a learning curve, and google didn't find much. The best source so far is the reddit link further up in the thread, where they use TCR 140.
I will rather try to find the best temperature settings in NI mode, as instructed by the producer. Also need to tune the preheat technique in order to get a one hitter.

That will take some time, so I will await the review on this device, until I have mastered it.

Next try, I will do the actual settings recommended by the producer. 330F/165C. Hold fire button for 10 sec, and then inhale. 165 may be enough if the tcr for nickel is wrong, as claimed on reddit. If that doesn't work I'll test the reddit settings.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

The vandyvape ss316 150 mesh is a lot thicker than The 400, no trouble loading 30 mg

As you may remember, I mentioned quite early on, that I personally prefer rougher meshes as they can store more substance, have a lower resistance, and better mechanical stability. The big drawback with rougher meshes is the higher thermal mass, so it needs a bit longer to heat up (not relevant) and quite longer to cool down again (relevant if you vape a substance not all at once).

But the big thermal mass can also be an advantage. E.g. if you vape a lot of a substance at once, and you therefore need a big mesh area, you need a lot of wattage from your mod, so that it can hold the temp when you inhale. The big thermal mass then makes it possible to vape in such a way, also just with a one battery mod.

I usually use meshes around 80-100, for some substances even around 50.

Awaiting eagerly your experiences with the sai.