Do you have a link for where this claim can be found? Sounds a bit 69ron-ish
FWIW,
@modern has explained the difficulties with finding certain solvents in their location.
A few isoquinolines can be found in some of the trichocereus species, I'd have to check my (or Trout's…) notes to say exactly which.
Sorry for my late answer ;-) . And sorry for the misinformation. I should read more carefully before throwing something on the internet.
Ha it does sound a bit 69ron-ish (Great word actually, this should become a new word/concept in the psychedelic dictionary, 69ron-ish)
Actually it came from "Hallucinogens" from the great Humprey Osmond:
https://erowid.org/library/books_online/hallucinogens_hoffer_osmond.pdf
Actually it is an interesting book with a section about the SAR of phenylethylamines explained already in 1967. I actually wonder how much did stand the test of time.
I have read it back and one mention actually was 3,4-dimethoxyphenylethylamine or DMPEA, and mentioned one study of (de Jong 1945), I assume this was based on animal studies and this didn't stand the test of time, I think it actually only is about the potency to produce catatonia in animals, which is of course different then a psychedelic effect, and also not correlates to effect in humans as Shulgin in PIHKAL didn't find any effect whatsoever.
Another analog was also mentioned, but it was synthesized by Shulgin and not naturally occuring in cacti.
Either way: I still think DMPEA is a interesting substance which maybe deserves it's own topic, what do you guys think?
1. There was some confusion or controversy about the effects and metabolism of Mescaline and DMPEA in schizofrenics mentioned in Hallucinogens, Trout's and PIHKAL but I think it was just bad experiment or wrong conclusion. I believe it's pretty much accepted that Mescaline is excreted almost unchanged in the urine (actually somewhere on the forum someone mentioned to save and re-extract urine. Although it seems a little weird and crazy, I have never done or thought about it. But considering how much you need for a dose and how much cacti you need to grow for a certain period time to have a constant steady supply, making it actually quite expensive if you need to buy it. Maybe this topic also needs a serious and open discussion? But I am drifting again that is another topic altogether again.
2. DMPEA does seem to have shown different effects and toxicity in animals. Although maybe not psychedelic, and probably not really very toxic. Do we know anything about toxicity? Wikipedia says DMPEA has shown some MAO-inhibiting effects. Keller WJ; Ferguson GG (July 1977). "Effects of 3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine derivatives on monoamine oxidase".
Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences.
66 (7): 1048–50.
doi:
10.1002/jps.2600660741.
PMID 886445.
3. But again (I am repeating myself a little bit) my major concern is this, and actually my main question: Even if we assume that DMPEA does nothing at all, I found in Trout that this compound is particular hard to separate from mescaline and maybe can make up as much 50% from the total alkaloids. As 3 possible methods he mentions:
- Chromatography
- Extracting basic water solution with di-ethylether (although this is from Shulgin my feeling says some freebase mescaline wants to move from the water to the ether).
- Extracting with Chloroform after salting with HCL as the DMPEA-HCl goes to the chlorform and MescalineHCl stays in the water
Maybe I missed something and scientific knowledge has grown, but I never seem this mentioned or anyone concerned by it. I don't know for instance if DMPEA is effectively removed with CIELO? In the article by van der Sypt and the TEK from An1cca almost pure Mescaline Sulphate is obtained after 3 recrystallizations from Acetone/Water. Now I am no chemist but I guess for recrystallization to work mescaline has to be the major component above a certain percentage already (don't know it there is a rule of thumb for this?) Maybe this isn't an issue at all but I assume if I have a cactus and extraction where 50% of the alkaloids is Mescaline and 50% DMPEA recrystallization is not effective? Maybe there is a simple answer and someone can clear this up or maybe I should give this it's own topic?
One other thing I want to mention/ask:
I saw a thread on the Vespiary.org that they even made a sticky, where they discuss different salt/polymorphs/hydrates of mescaline sulphate suggesting that the potency and the needed dose differs.
Maybe I didn't read it right, but I never heard of this before (of course I know of monohydrate), and I found it weird and unbelievable: again, I am no chemist but I always thought that treating the freebase with sulphuric acid just always gives the sulphate-dihydrate.
They are even talking about hemihydrate?
If not, then one should titrate with equimolar ratios (which is practically impossible) and in an anhydrous solvent else doses and the whole method is unreliable right? (I always titrate my toluene/xylene in my separation funnel with the water already beneath it, and I never dry my toluene/xylene with MgSO4 for example. Although it may come out cleaner, I think the amount of water that is dissolved in the xylene/toluene is so little that the little impurities are easy removed after washing and recrystallizations?)
Have I missed something all my life or understood something wrong from this thread (I assume that it doesn't make any difference if you obtain mescaline freebase from extraction or through chemical synthesis, or is this just total BS?
I suppose there are enough people there with good chemistry knowledge that wouldn't let this be a sticky if this "theory" is totally unsound?
