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The Mescaline Extraction Thread

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Dasein said:
So I mixed the toluene from the previous pull with dilute HCl, then I put it back into the extraction bottle, heated it up in water bath, shook it vigorously and for long periods of time and I did that for several times over more than an hour. Then I pulled it out and added some benzoic acid, no clouding!

Your situation could be different, but last time it took me one week to do 9 pulls, ime few hours are not enough.
 
Does mescaline acetate always go gooey/oily? I dried my vinegar pull and it was completely dry but I let it sit and it turned oily I assume either pulling moisture from the air or because not cold enough since acetic acid melting point is 16.6C?
 

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modern said:
Does mescaline acetate always go gooey/oily? I dried my vinegar pull and it was completely dry but I let it sit and it turned oily I assume either pulling moisture from the air or because not cold enough since acetic acid melting point is 16.6C?
It is very common to observe crude mescaline acetate as being gooey.

Hygroscopic salts ("pulling moisture from the air") are not exactly uncommon. Any small excess of acetic acid could enhance liquefaction too. This could occur through the formation of a biacetate anion which subsequently dissociates in the presence of atmospheric moisture, at least maybe. It's also to do with how mescaline and acetic acid are relatively weak as a base and an acid, respectively.

The bit about the temperature and the m.p. of acetic acid is something of a red herring. If you dried with heat, surely it would have stayed melted. And take a look at mesc sulfate - the m.p. of sulfuric acid is far lower than that of acetic acid and yet mesc sulfate crystals are nice and stable.

What's all the brown powdery stuff in your product? It looks as though you could have done with being a little more careful in the separation of various phases during the extraction.
 
FWIW I inadvertently freeze-dried some sticky full spectrum mescaline acetate by storing it in the freezer in a mat finish type silicone container. Over the course of about 4 months it went from about 10 grams to about 8 grams and became much more dry and crumbly.


 

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downwardsfromzero said:
modern said:
Does mescaline acetate always go gooey/oily? I dried my vinegar pull and it was completely dry but I let it sit and it turned oily I assume either pulling moisture from the air or because not cold enough since acetic acid melting point is 16.6C?
It is very common to observe crude mescaline acetate as being gooey.

Hygroscopic salts ("pulling moisture from the air") are not exactly uncommon. Any small excess of acetic acid could enhance liquefaction too. This could occur through the formation of a biacetate anion which subsequently dissociates in the presence of atmospheric moisture, at least maybe. It's also to do with how mescaline and acetic acid are relatively weak as a base and an acid, respectively.

The bit about the temperature and the m.p. of acetic acid is something of a red herring. If you dried with heat, surely it would have stayed melted. And take a look at mesc sulfate - the m.p. of sulfuric acid is far lower than that of acetic acid and yet mesc sulfate crystals are nice and stable.

What's all the brown powdery stuff in your product? It looks as though you could have done with being a little more careful in the separation of various phases during the extraction.

Yea I didn't use filter paper nor cotton balls at any point and only decanted and siphoned each phase.

Someone on reddit shared that lab test showed it was mostly carbohydrates and after a cold MEK wash it was around 70% impurities but ended up with clean white crystals. I did a wash (not MEK) and it seems to have cleaned up my product quite well. I'll see if another wash helps and try crystallization but due to the same scale and lack of glass to accommodate the size might prove too difficult.
 
So I did a filtration and a pull of the goo and it seems that the goo is from the impurities. I'm currently on my 5th pull to remove impurities and here is what was removed. After a while it turns oil/gooey. I'm gonna end up with around 300+ mg which I will try to crystalize. The photos show the original goo acetate extract, the brown shavings are the impurities which have been pulled and filtered once
 

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What the hell is that men? Not trying to insult anyone or being personal, especially not Modern ;-)

But I can't follow all these extractions anymore. What is wrong with the old ones? Is it just for the sake of experimenting?

Every time I see new solvents, like limone, salts like acetate, citrate. And the results seem a mess and looks not like an improvement. Or it extracts extra substances others methods do not but I am coming back to this and my point.

Or is it because solvents arent available?
(replying on a old post, in Holland you can freely buy Toluene(to a limit of 5L but one liter should be enough for personal use in a year) and you can buy Xylene without problems but if you buy 20L jerrycans 10 times a year you probably can expect a visit from people. And no naptha won 't work but everyone here already knows of course. It's good for deffating though)

Or is this a save the plant thing because it less toxic for the environment?
I alway handing it to the waste place, telling and writing if it's acid, base, polar apolar or which one. Even better and is recycling I have no money for a rotatary evaporator hehe. Actually no I think of it, I should just probably make condensor, that should work. Ok enough about me.

The reason I am coming back to this because of my own "frustration" of unanswered questions:

I like the sulphate salt, it forms nice lang crystals and is not as hydroscopic as HCl salt(whatever the importance is of that fact since no one is keeping it for long time in open air).

But I a'm coming to this question because: people are talking about the mescaline experience from (Pedro's, not speaking about Peyote) from pure crystals is inferrior because of other substances like a sedating alkaloid adds something to the pure expierence which is very stimulating by itself I've read. I made a stupid comment in my last post on the old forum that is maybe pellotine, which I discoverd later is actually only found in peyote as far as I know?

One interresting comment was made though that extracting with chloroform gives more of a full spectrum experience. This is interresting because in Trout's book "Cactus Alkaloids" under DMPEA he states that this could Pardani could only separate it with prepartive TLC with Ethylacete Methanol 58% and Ammonium hydroxide (17:2:1) so probably needing a column chromatography the separate the whole batch. On the other hand Agurell found out that the HCl salt of DMPEA (and other alkaloids) are soluble in chloroform while Mescaline is not. Or using ether to remove the freebase DMPEA form freebase Mescaline. That might save some work in recrystallizations?

My problem is that I think nobody exactly know what th extract or leaving behind? (or did I miss something or a lot?)

The main alkaloids found are 3-DMPEA and 3-methoxy-tyramine I think?

- Now I read claims that Bridgesii contains a MAOi, I thought that was debunkend already as being a mistake which still goes around as truth? Probably the darker experiences are caused by a higher dose or maybe because of lower content of other alkaloids. It can't be ruled out)
- Now I also read here somewhere else that there is an alkaloid that cacti that works shorter but much more potent mescaline itself. Has this any creditable basis or scientific support, as far as I know there is never found anything like that. (I mean it can be possible that it excists, but you have to be carefull because, set, setting and dose can be different even unconsiously, and there is a lot of emotion that lead to subjective different expierences.

All seems a little bit subjective with no scientific basis where we can build on further I have a feeling.

I want to know if there are other substances that are active of have an benificial or the opposite synergy. That DMPEA can compete with mescaline making it less accurate to does can be plausible. But I am afraid we don't get an answer soon because who knows what terpenes or isoquinolines or whatever can influence the effect? But I am changing my opinion to that of Ancc1a, that purer mescaline is more accurate to dose and in higher doses gives less side effects.

MAYBE A TOPIC FOR A NEW THREAD.

- But I want to know the effects of all the substances, are they active by themself, are they stimulating or sedating or can there proven any synergy good or bad? (this might proove to be very difficult because who knows how all substances interact with each other?)
- Then identify these individual substances
- Then find out the solubility of all these individual substances in both there FREEBASE form and ALL THERE DIFFERENT SALT FORMS in ALL DIFFERENT SOLVENTS.

Then put everything in a comprehensive table so we can start selectively leaving things in or out.

But Like I said: I get the feeling that a lot is subjective and other alkaloids making the expience warmer because you just take maybe only half a dose (which can be 50% of total alkaloid of extraction) and the rest have effects that are not desirable adding anything to the experience which can only lead to more negative side-effects. But I hope I got it all wrong and I also hope I am being proven wrong.
 
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I also read here somewhere else that there is an alkaloid that cacti that works shorter but much more potent mescaline itself. Has this any creditable basis or scientific support, as far as I know there is never found anything like that.
Do you have a link for where this claim can be found? Sounds a bit 69ron-ish 🤨

FWIW, @modern has explained the difficulties with finding certain solvents in their location.

A few isoquinolines can be found in some of the trichocereus species, I'd have to check my (or Trout's…) notes to say exactly which.
 

jingamin
#9 Posted : 9-1-2024 12:51:29
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Posts: 145
Joined: 26-okt-2014
Last visit: 18-feb-2024

Do you think this method is sufficient for pure mescaline?

Because ''One thing I should mention is that San Pedro contains alkaloids other than mescaline. Using vinegar in this tech with San Pedro causes at least one of them to get extracted along with the mescaline acetate. SWIM doesn’t know what alkaloid it is, but it’s hallucinogenic like mescaline and seems to be more potent. It comes on faster than mescaline does and is slightly sedating, and only seems to last about 3 hours.''
 

jingamin
#9 Posted : 9-1-2024 12:51:29
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 145
Joined: 26-okt-2014
Last visit: 18-feb-2024

Do you think this method is sufficient for pure mescaline?

Because ''One thing I should mention is that San Pedro contains alkaloids other than mescaline. Using vinegar in this tech with San Pedro causes at least one of them to get extracted along with the mescaline acetate. SWIM doesn’t know what alkaloid it is, but it’s hallucinogenic like mescaline and seems to be more potent. It comes on faster than mescaline does and is slightly sedating, and only seems to last about 3 hours.''
Ah, the thing about that was we eventually established that jingamin's tea was far too strong; we're yet to verify any other, stronger alkaloid being present in San Pedro tea and many decades of cactus analysis haven't shown evidence of something like this either.

EDIT: It also appears I was right about it being 69ron :cool:
 
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Hey everyone, i just tried my first mescaline extraction and ran into some (clearly caused by my own sloppyness) issues. After cooking the plant slurry in a mix of vinegar and citric acid ( should have stayed with one or the other) and reducing the volume i added some CaCO3 (had some left and wanted to get rid of it) to neutralize the extract. After that i basified with NaOH until i reached pH 13. To get a phase seperation with ipa i salted the broth with a mixture of MgCl an NaCl (didnt have enough pure NaCl) until ipa formed a seperate layer on top. When i tried to freeze perzipitate the mescaline i got a lot of withe(isch) precipitate that looked quite mineralic and not as expected. Any idea where i fucked up and if i can clean my mescaline somehow?
Best wishes
 
Hey everyone, i just tried my first mescaline extraction and ran into some (clearly caused by my own sloppyness) issues. After cooking the plant slurry in a mix of vinegar and citric acid ( should have stayed with one or the other) and reducing the volume i added some CaCO3 (had some left and wanted to get rid of it) to neutralize the extract. After that i basified with NaOH until i reached pH 13. To get a phase seperation with ipa i salted the broth with a mixture of MgCl an NaCl (didnt have enough pure NaCl) until ipa formed a seperate layer on top. When i tried to freeze perzipitate the mescaline i got a lot of withe(isch) precipitate that looked quite mineralic and not as expected. Any idea where i fucked up and if i can clean my mescaline somehow?
Best wishes
Hi, welcome.

Have you successfully extracted mescaline using this method before?

It sounds like you've taken a bunch of different extraction techniques and cobbled them all together, relying on blind hope that your Frankenstein method will work.

So, it appears the point where you messed up is in thinking you knew what you were doing. Why didn't you follow an established tek?

In all likelihood you will still have some mescaline in freebase form dissolved in your IPA. You could try adding an appropriate amount of citric acid and sticking it in the freezer. If you're really lucky you might get some M citrate crystals, if not you can still evaporate the IPA to collect some kind of crude extract.

It would probably be best to dry the IPA extract with anhydrous sodium carbonate before adding the citric acid. Anhydrous SC can be made by roasting sodium bicarbonate, although it can easily be obtained otc in some countries (such as Germany).

Hope this helps, make sure you understand what you're doing before proceeding any further.
 
Hi, welcome.

Have you successfully extracted mescaline using this method before?

It sounds like you've taken a bunch of different extraction techniques and cobbled them all together, relying on blind hope that your Frankenstein method will work.

So, it appears the point where you messed up is in thinking you knew what you were doing. Why didn't you follow an established tek?

In all likelihood you will still have some mescaline in freebase form dissolved in your IPA. You could try adding an appropriate amount of citric acid and sticking it in the freezer. If you're really lucky you might get some M citrate crystals, if not you can still evaporate the IPA to collect some kind of crude extract.

It would probably be best to dry the IPA extract with anhydrous sodium carbonate before adding the citric acid. Anhydrous SC can be made by roasting sodium bicarbonate, although it can easily be obtained otc in some countries (such as Germany).

Hope this helps, make sure you understand what you're doing before proceeding any further.
Yeah i know that it wasnt the most bigbrain move.
 
Yeah i know that it wasnt the most bigbrain move.
It's actually fine - the mescaline is still recoverable one way or another. It was kind of cute to see how you'd cobbled together three fairly disparate techniques, so I wonder how you actually decided to follow those particular steps. Did you see your method described somewhere as a complete 'tek'?

Have you come up with a plan of action yet? What do you think of my suggestions?

We can still sort this one out :)
 
I Just wanted to get started asap.
since the extraction process follows a quite straight forward pH manipulation ( down to get the good stuff into aquous solution and up to get the freebase k to the ipa) i just worked with what i had at hand
 
I Just wanted to get started asap.
since the extraction process follows a quite straight forward pH manipulation ( down to get the good stuff into aquous solution and up to get the freebase k to the ipa) i just worked with what i had at hand
Yes - it was worth a try, I suppose!

What I would suggest is the following:
  • Obtain anhydrous sodium carbonate [easy] and swirl a generous spoonful with your present IPA extract
  • decant the IPA away from the solids
  • add a suitable amount of citric acid corresponding with your anticipated yield - aim for about 1:1 mescaline to citric
  • place the sealed container of acidified IPA extract in the fridge awhile and observe periodically for signs of crystallisation
  • transfer to the freezer for a day or two
  • if crystals have formed (or maybe it's goo), decant off and reserve the liquid
  • add a little more citric to the IPA and repeat the chilling process, etc.
  • if nothing precipitated, evaporate the liquid to recover crude cactus citrate resin
You can probably clean up excess citric acid if you can get hold of some ethyl acetate, otherwise there's a bunch of information about cleaning up mescaline salts with stuff like acetone and MEK if you look on the wiki and if you search the forum a bit more. Depending on how it all goes, you may be able to try recrystallisation (re-x) from boiling IPA.
 
Interesting approach, but quite complicated. I would suggest to extract your slurry multiple times with more IPA. You will most likely need to evaporate all of the IPA and extract from resin.
 
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Update: i ended up dumping everithing back into the basic and salt saturated mother liquor. Made an IPA pull and zhe acidified with 32% HCl (finally got it delivered). Because i am an ogre i managed to add much HCl which gave me big of an aquous phase on the bottom. Ipa phase now is freeze precipitating and i evaperatey the HCl phase ( luckily its windy and i did not breath in too much of the HCL gas. 🙈)
Curious how it will work out.
Attached is the crystals, left over from the aquous phase. As i have understood its solubilities, there should be quite a bit of Mescaline Hydrochloride in there
 

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Update.
To clean up the salt further, i dissolved in acidified water and then made it basic and polar with NaOH. After that i made 3 pulls with aceton from it.
That i then acidified again and evaporated the aceton of. Any chance the stuff in the pics below is mescaline hydrochloride. :D
 

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