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The Mysterious Bufotenine

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Jorkest

Jorkest

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so im starting this thread because of what said in this thread DMT from Bufotenin? - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

there seems to be some strange reaction happening under certain circumstances that produce a very wonderful form of bufotenine...what SWIM has tried was a redish color almost deeper in color...he was on mescaline and smoked maybe 5mg of the stuff and got nice visuals and awesome euphoria..he was very excited about it...but then in later trials with different batches of bufotenine..he never got nearly the same effects..which puzzled him to no end..

but from what we know...calcium hydroxide is involved, acetone, water, and possibly IPA..

when SWIM tried this on mescaline alkaloids from achuma(bridgesii) and got wonderful effcts and then hearing from 69ron about his friend not liking the mescaline and bufotenine combo...SWIM had to try it again and check...and indeed it sucked...

so this left him pretty confused and he just kinda forgot about the red stuff..he MAY have found it..but hes going to do a smell test and burn a little and see how it smells..it was in a little tiny vial tucked away in the corner..but it looks like it could be the stuff

another weird thing SWIM just remembered is that he had a dream about this stuff called 'batch' it was the most psychedelic dream hes ever had..absolutely insane..and it lasted for a long time..it was actually the most psychedelic experience hes ever had...and since that first batch of stuff was the red one ..maybe the dream was trying to tell SWIM that THAT was what he was looking for...haha ramble

but that dream also sparked a memory..

SWIM is pretty sure this is how he made the stuff...he first possibly toasted them(not sure)..and then mixed them with sodium carbonate..added a bit of water and freebased the stuff..dried it somehow..most likely with a warm surface...then he extracted with acetone and then either used fumaric acid or citric acid as the salt to do a CASA or a FASA...and then with that he freebased with calcium hydroxide and a bit of water..and then dried and then pulled with acetone or MEK to be left to evaporate..and SWIM is pretty sure thats how it went..this was in the way beginning of his experimentation with bufotenine..and this sounds like a way he might have tried to extract it...
 
In SWIM's tests a while back, he came across a bufotenine reaction of some sorts.

He had heard of "calcium bufotenate" and tried to make it.

He extracted bufotenine from Anadenanthera colubrina. It was extracted using a typical A/B extraction, with DCM as the non-polar solvent. I'm not going to go through the details of that extraction. There were lots of cleanup steps involved, and it's really not important. At the end he had some amber slightly sticky bufotenine. It was clearly bufotenine with the typical effects of bufotenine. The fact that it was amber and sticky indicated it was not 99% pure, maybe something like 85% or so.

Anyway, SWIM had tons of this impure amber bufotenine to play around with.

One day he decides to try to make "calcium bufotenate". He had read about this on another forum. So me measures out 100 mg of impure bufotenine and 100 mg of calcium hydroxide. They are mixed in a solution of 50% IPA, 50% water, for 1 hour. At the end of that hour, he dilutes the solution to 75% IPA and filters out the calcium. He evaporates away the IPA using a fan and no heat. He then scrapes up the material and dissolves it in acetone, filters the acetone to remove any remaining calcium, and then evaporates the acetone.

He smokes 10 mg of this material. It's VERY NICE, the nicest psychedelic SWIM ever had. Now SWIM is thinking he made "calcium bufotenate", but then he measures the calcium that was filtered out, and it comes to about 99 mg. So, it couldn't be "calcium bufotenate" because it seems all the calcium was recovered.

SWIM tries this reaction again many times. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and he's left with just bufotenine at the end. Other times he's left with a non-smokable substance. After many tests, he found that the reaction is unpredictable and that time is critical to the reaction. If the reaction is run for 24 hours, it always produces a non-smokable substance, which is likely dehydrobufotenine. But if the reaction is not run long enough, the end result is just bufotenine. But when run for 1-4 hours (it seems different every time) the reaction is successful. Sometimes 1 hour is needed. Sometimes 4 is needed. Sometimes 2, etc. SWIM has no idea why the time varies so much.

Why this reaction works sometimes and fails other times at 1 hour of mixing is a mystery. The reaction seems to always take a different amount of time to complete. The problem is, if the reaction is run too long, a non-smokable alkaloid is the result.

I would love it if some other SWIMs can investigate this. I think using pure white bufotenine would be best. Maybe with pure bufotenine the reaction will be more predictable.

I think what's happening is that the calcium hydroxide is forming calcium bufotenate (Ca + -5-O-DMT) in solution if mixed just long enough, but if mixed too long dehydrobufotenine forms. I think the trick is to add the IPA as soon as the calcium bufotenine forms, and then filter out the excess calcium hydroxide to prevent further reaction so that you don't end up with dehydrobufotenine. Once you dry the IPA, you have calcium bufotenine (Ca + -5-O-DMT), but unless its in an alkaline environment this compound converts to bufotenine (5-HO-DMT). I think it's useless as is because it just becomes bufotenine again, as soon as it gets wet. Anyway, then you dissolve it in acetone, and it reacts with the acetone forming 5-AcO-DMT or something similar. When you filter it, calcium filters off (possibly calcium oxide?). Then you dry it and you're left with 5-AcO-DMT. This is just a guess. I really don't know what the end product is, but it is definitely smokable, and definitely the nicest psychedelic SWIM has ever had.

At any rate, this reaction is repeatable, but unpredictable because the time needed for the reaction to complete seems to vary a lot. It takes anywhere from 1-4 hours to complete the reaction, and once complete, if it's run much longer, a non-smokeable alkaloid (most likely dehydrobufotenine) forms. Again, I don't know.

If anyone can investigate this and find out what exactly is going on, it would be fantastic.

SWIM still has some of the mystery alkaloid sitting in a vial. It's very distinctly different from bufotenine. The duration of action is the same, but the potency is about 1/2 that of bufotenine, but many times more visual. It's more visual than any other psychedelic SWIM has experienced. It's also extremely euphoric. It orally active as well at about 100 mg, but produces some nausea.

I would like to know what this alkaloid is. Is it 5-AcO-DMT? Is it something else? Whatever it is, it's nothing short of AMAZING. I think probably many people have accidentally made this compound by freebasing their bufotenine with calcium hydroxide and then dissolving it in acetone. A lot of techs out there use calcium hydroxide and acetone.
 
PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT.

We have some really smart people on this forum. Take a look at this. Something is happening to the bufotenine in certain cases during extraction and it's forming another compound that is absolutely fantastic. I am not exaggerating at all. It's about as euphoric as mescaline, with stronger visuals than DMT, no "mind fuck", and is neither speedy nor sedating. It's utterly amazing. You will NOT be disappointed if you succeed in making it. I guarantee that. It doesn't have the side effects of bufotenine. It's clearly not bufotenine. It's like DMT, not bufotenine. It feels more like DMT than bufotenine. The only difference is that it lasts longer, is more visual, is much more euphoric, and has almost no psychedelic "mind fuck" at all.

If we can get a handle on this and make a tech that consistently produces this extraction artifact, a lot of people will be VERY HAPPY.

I believe this is the compound others have been talking about and mistakenly calling it "calcium bufotenate". But I don't believe it's actually "calcium bufotenate", but rather 5-AcO-DMT that is forming. 5-AcO-DMT should theoretically cross the blood brain barrier far easier than bufotenine does.

Whatever it is, it is AWESOME. Someone needs to come up with a tech that consistently makes this extraction artifact. Maybe one already exists? If anyone has any such tech, please post it here!
 
Could a similar process of freebasing with calcium hydroxide and reacting with acetone be used to convert 4-HO-DMT(psilocin) into 4-AcO-DMT(psilacetin)?
 
right now SWIM is converting his freebase bufotenine into bufo fumarate...hes then going to try freebasing it..and remove any water at a certain time after the reaction starts..and then dry some acetone and pull with it...evaporate and see what he comes up with..

69ron what did SWIY's mystery bufotenine look like?
 
he noticed that after adding FASA to the bufotenine saturated acetone and removing the bufotenine fumarate...that the acetone is a dark yellow color...perhaps this could be an added step in the d-limo bufotenine extraction
 
Jorkest said:
right now SWIM is converting his freebase bufotenine into bufo fumarate...hes then going to try freebasing it..and remove any water at a certain time after the reaction starts..and then dry some acetone and pull with it...evaporate and see what he comes up with..

69ron what did SWIY's mystery bufotenine look like?
Click to expand...

It was originally from an amber impure extract from Anadenanthera colubrina, but then after the conversion, it was more reddish. SWIM's is very old now. It's been in a vial since January 19, 2008. It has turned black, but is still very active.

When smoked it tastes like mild soapy tasting DMT. It doesn't taste anything like bufotenine. It's NOT DMT. It had the effects of bufotenine before the conversion. Now it has effects more like DMT than bufotenine, but way more euphoric, and much longer lasting. Effects start after about 3 minutes. It peaks after about 20 minutes. The total affects last about 3 hours.

It's a fantastic experience. Nothing else compares. It would be cool if SWIM could have it analyzed professionally.
 
that is very interesting..because SWIM just found a small vial that he is pretty sure the left over extract that he had..and his has turned black as well..he hasnt tested it yet..but it doesnt smell like bufotenine or dmt..but like you said almost soapy..

that would be very cool to have it analyzed...this is exciting...it would be great to nail this one down
 
narmz said:
Could a similar process of freebasing with calcium hydroxide and reacting with acetone be used to convert 4-HO-DMT(psilocin) into 4-AcO-DMT(psilacetin)?
Click to expand...

I don't know if 5-AcO-DMT is actually being made from this process.

I think the calcium hydroxide is not just freebasing the bufotenine (5-HO-DMT), but also forming a salt with it, making Ca + -5-O-DMT, just like it does with morphine. I think Ca + -5-O-DMT is very unstable, highly reactive, and in the presence of acetone, it's forming 5-AcO-DMT. This is just a guess. There is no evidence of this. I am not a professional chemist, so I could be completely wrong here.

If this is actually making 5-AcO-DMT, then the same process should probably work with psilocin.

The main problem with this reaction is the timing. If the bufotenine sits in the calcium hydroxide too long, it's rendered unsmokable. If its not in the calcium hydroxide long enough, no reaction takes place.
 
are there any visual changes or other things that might help when figuring out if the reaction has completed
 
SWIM can very hardly see 5-AcO-dmt forming from any reaction between acetone and bufotenine. SWIM cannot really think of any possible reaction between alcohols (hysroxyl group) and ketones). Not to mention that the presence of -O-DMT is purely speculative.

SWIMs guess is that somehow somehow bufotenine's hydroxyl is reduced to a ketone, thus giving rise to two almost interchangeable compounds. Please see attached image for more info. Little if any is known for such compound(s). Strictly speaking they are not even indoles. this conversion is theoretically possible but it requires the presence of a reducing agent. Maybe calcuim hydrixide and/or acetone along small amounts of water might be able to cause such a conversion.

Either this or the other reactive part of the bufotenine, id est the dimethylated nitrogen plays a role.
 

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Infundibulum said:
Not to mention that the presence of -O-DMT is purely speculative.
Click to expand...

This is ALL speculation. But what's not is that a reaction does occur. What exactly occurs is unknown. After this reaction, the alkaloid is no longer bufotenine. That can be judged easily by the dramatic change in effects.

SWIM wishes he could have the alkaloid examined. I hate speculating like this. I prefer to have the facts, not a bunch of theories.
 
Aye of course. This makes SWIM wanna move to a workplace where good analytical equipments are more available. :d

But not everything really needs an analytical apparatus as sophisticated as mass spectrometer, X-ray chrystallography or NMR.

Simple chemical tests (such as those used in field drug tests) do exist to detect some functional groups like ketones (in compound like those mentioned by SWIM) or ester bonds (like in the case of 5-AcO-dmt)
 
I can’t imagine how 5-AcO-DMT could be made from this reaction, but who knows. Sometimes things you don’t except to happen actually happen. Maybe it’s not the acetone, but some of the impurities in the acetone that are doing it like mesityl oxide?

Could mesityl oxide combine with -O-DMT?

Now I'm not even sure if acetone is even part of this. Maybe calcium alone is doing this. SWIM never tried it without the acetone. The key part of this seems to be the calcium hydroxide mixing time. SWIM only used acetone to get rid of the excess calcium. He doesn’t know if it reacts with it or not.

I’d really like more SWIMs to look into this.

If a procedure could be created that consistently makes this alkaloid, that would be fantastic, but not knowing what it is that’s being created is a little bit disturbing, and theories about what it is are not that comforting either.
 
Possibly only the calcium hydroxide and water are needed for this reaction and it’s simply dehydrobufotenine that’s forming when mixing is done for just the right amount of time, and then it’s decomposing if mixed for too long. That’s highly possible and would be supported by Alexander Shulgin’s theory on how dehydrobufotenine is created from bufotenine.

SWIM doesn’t have the time to test his ideas right now. He’s got too much work to do at the moment and no more bufotenine to test with:(
 
when SWIM mixed in his calcium hydroxide and water..to bufotenine fumarate the color turned to a pea green...he let it sit for about an hour and a half...he then dried it with anhydrous magnesium sulfate...then when he pulled with acetone the acetone turned to a reddish color and is now evaporating...will report back after its done
 
That sounds the same as how SWIM remembers it.

How much calcium hydroxide to bufotenine was used?

SWIM found that 1 hour of mixing was enough *SOMETIMES*, but other times as much as 4 hours didn't work. 24 hours of mixing will ruin it and yield a non-smokable product. SWIM is really puzzled by the timing variances. I think maybe this is a series of decomposition steps that are taking place on bufotenine which are maybe just caused by the calcium hydroxide, and that you just have to stop the decomposition at the right time or it’s decomposed too much and no longer smokable. Maybe by adding just the right amount of calcium hydroxide you can cause partial decomposition to occur and end up with the desired alkaloid every time?
 
SWIM used a 1 to 1 mix..and it has an interesting smell to it...he isnt going to get his hopes up..but it would be really cool if it works
 
so SWIM evaporated the acetone with some heat to keep water from condensing on it..and it dried to a tannish powder...lighter than it was before doing the process...but its also got this very very slight green tint..like super slight...SWIM will try it out at some point and see how it goes..most likely though its still bufotenine
 
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