the Suffering of Loved Ones

[CosmicRiver]

sorry, i don't know in which section to post it

I've seen loved ones suffer before, but this week it happened again (can't share details for their privacy) and i'm left shaken about the experience.
In my spiritual practice, i've come to be able to accept my own suffering, to see how it made me learn and grow, and in the end made me happier.
Sometimes in meditation i can sense the suffering in the world and remain calm even if i'm moved by that suffering and determined to heal it.

But when, right in front of you, you have a loved one who is suffering greatly, and you can't do anything about it, and you see them defenseless, how does all of this hold up? what can spiritual practice do beyond making us able to withstand that suffering a little less?

a quote by Thich Nhat Hanh

When I was a novice, I could not understand why, if the world is filled with suffering, the Buddha has such a beautiful smile. Why isn’t he disturbed by all the suffering? Later I discovered that the Buddha has enough understanding, calm, and strength; that is why the suffering does not overwhelm him. He is able to smile to suffering because he knows how to take care of it and to help transform it.

but really an awakened being can see a loved one suffer in front of them and stay still and smile in front of it?

i also remember while i was on the ayahuasca comeup, feeling like i was about to die by poisoning, and hearing my inner voice saying that it was happening for a reason and there was love even behind that experience. i can understand and accept that. but when someone i love is suffering, apparently without a reason, or simply because of the evil or indifference of other people, how can i accept it?

and most importantly, how can i keep seeing the cosmos as built on interconnectedness and love knowing things like these can happen?

what do you think? what have you learnt about this?

 

[Nydex]

I'm sorry to hear you have a loved one that is going through something difficult. I really hope things get better for them sooner rather than later.

It's never easy, observing it while being helpless. No amount of meditation or spiritual practice will help you deal with it in a way that removes the pain. You could view it from the angle that we're all one, and their suffering is your suffering. In that sense, you could overcome a certain portion of it because it's easier to deal with one's own pain than it is to deal with the pain of those we love and care for.

But even then you can't fully consume it and a portion of it still bounces off you, causing suffering. All you can do is hope, really. Hope that the universe knows what's best for them, and that's about it, at least in my opinion.

Sending you love and strength

 

[CosmicRiver]

I'm sorry to hear you have a loved one that is going through something difficult. I really hope things get better for them sooner rather than later.

It's never easy, observing it while being helpless. No amount of meditation or spiritual practice will help you deal with it in a way that removes the pain. You could view it from the angle that we're all one, and their suffering is your suffering. In that sense, you could overcome a certain portion of it because it's easier to deal with one's own pain than it is to deal with the pain of those we love and care for.

But even then you can't fully consume it and a portion of it still bounces off you, causing suffering. All you can do is hope, really. Hope that the universe knows what's best for them, and that's about it, at least in my opinion.

Sending you love and strength

thank you Nydex
i really like what you said, and in fact one thing that i kept realizing in these days is that we all suffer together

I really hope things get better for them sooner rather than later.

it's all ok now
i just feel uneasy knowing things like these can happen

 

[Nydex]

Very happy to hear things are better now! And yeah, I know what you mean. Life is like that, can throw difficult things your way unpredictably. Can't really ever prepare for everything, but if you keep unity in mind and try to process it all in manageable chunks, you're doing a good thing.

Take care

 

[Koduckushi]

We cry together.

I'm working through similar issues in my life. If i can, I want to help if I'm needed/summoned, but I hope they find the balance to life and themselves that they need. My heart goes out to anyone struggling with any facet of this problem.

 

[northape]

but really an awakened being can see a loved one suffer in front of them and stay still and smile in front of it?

Just to clarify iconography for people:
From Buddhist worldview, this life is a long dream and our suffering is dreamlike too.
We wake up one day and realize that our belief in a dream character is a mistake.
Buddha is awake, so he knows what's up

and most importantly, how can i keep seeing the cosmos as built on interconnectedness and love knowing things like these can happen?

Oh, this is where the rubber meets the road.
All the books, teachings, medicine sessions are useless if we never actually make it our experience.
It's hard for everyone, but what choice do we have? We can accept and surrender, or resist and suffer.
The choice is simple, it's the realization that is hard. Regardless, my answer is just more gibberish and quite useless.
Real presence, love and acceptance of the situation are what matters in the end.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference.
— Serenity Prayer

 

[CosmicRiver]

@northape don't take my answer as arguing but the idea that life is a dream is probably more hinduist than buddhist. even if the world as we perceive it is mostly a product of our mind and often distorted by wrong views, that doesn't make suffering any less real for the being who experiences it. otherwise the Buddha wouldn't have made the origin and cessation of suffering the core of his teaching
even the teachings of mindfulness and the five remembrances are at odds life being a dream
but maybe it's just words getting in the way

 

[Panpsychic]

But when, right in front of you, you have a loved one who is suffering greatly, and you can't do anything about it, and you see them defenseless, how does all of this hold up? what can spiritual practice do beyond making us able to withstand that suffering a little less?

Its tough, and hits home when its personal which can be a bridge to seeing the suffering of others more deeply.

There's a good quote from the Dalai Lama where he is asked how he can remain so optimistic in world filled with such suffering, violence, death and torment. His answer was

"Well, what else are you suggesting"?

The spiritual world view you have will definitely be tested by these kinds of experience. The Buddhist one can be useful in accepting that a lot of the suffering is inevitable and endemic and has gone on for time immemorial so again acceptance and focus on things you can change not what you can't.

and most importantly, how can i keep seeing the cosmos as built on interconnectedness and love knowing things like these can happen?

what do you think? what have you learnt about this?

Your personal universe and response can be built on this. It doesnt take much to look around and see people who have created a personal universe based on the opposite, and the repurcussions. I do believe that at the highest levels of reality it is all love and truth but getting there and the journey can have many facets and inner or outer conflicts thats how it seems to have been designed and plays out in various ways.

 

[CosmicRiver]

thank you for your replies and messages, for taking the time to write them to help me, maybe even having to recall painful things, and i'm sorry for that

i read them and found them helpful for real. took some time to really get the message and try to put it into practice.
tonight a friend suggested to think about "embracing" suffering instead of "accepting" it, just a different way to say it but that can make it easier for me to do it. again it's a lot easier to do it with my own suffering than with the suffering of loved ones, but at some point they're one and the same

by reading your replies i feel like we all have lived or are living through painful things irrespective of age and realizing this is a very strong feeling, both negative and positive

 

[northape]

@northape don't take my answer as arguing but the idea that life is a dream is probably more hinduist than buddhist. even if the world as we perceive it is mostly a product of our mind and often distorted by wrong views, that doesn't make suffering any less real for the being who experiences it. otherwise the Buddha wouldn't have made the origin and cessation of suffering the core of his teaching
even the teachings of mindfulness and the five remembrances are at odds life being a dream
but maybe it's just words getting in the way

Buddhism came out of Indian culture and inherited lots from it.
My example would be closer to advaita, but who cares.
Any kind of view is ultimately wrong and keeps us in the conceptual prison.
All of them are tools to get to the abyss of not-knowing / emptiness / truth / God.

I was most likely thinking more along the lines that we don't need to involve any belief system.
They have their uses, but bring their own baggage too. If we need to use images, better use our cultural myths, imo.
Buddhism has its iconography and meaning, but wisdom comes from going beyond them.

Direct raw experience is enough if one stays open & present.
Subjectively, suffering is completely real. And most philosophy becomes useless right away.
Still, if one gets beyond theory and practices being present for years, it may help to deal with stuff.
Don't know if I made myself clear now or created another level of confusion here

 

[CosmicRiver]

Buddhism came out of Indian culture and inherited lots from it. My example would be closer to advaita, but who cares.
Any kind of view is ultimately wrong and keeps us in the conceptual prison. All of them are tools to get to the abyss of not-knowing / emptiness / truth / God.

I was most likely thinking more along the lines that we don't need to involve any belief system.
They have their uses, but bring their own baggage too. If we need to use images, better use our cultural myths, imo.
Buddhism has its iconography and meaning, but wisdom comes from going beyond them.

Direct raw experience is enough if one stays open & present.
Subjectively, suffering is completely real. And most philosophy becomes useless right away.
Still, if one gets beyond theory and practices being present for years, it may help to deal with stuff.
Don't know if I made myself clear now or created another level of confusion here

yes it's clear now and i agree with you
direct raw experience goes beyond any words that get used to describe it

 

[Kobranek]

Compassion and empathy are a couple of tools that may help implement when working with others suffering. There seems to involve a certain level of being open to ones energy to gain a better understanding of their suffering. Some of us seem more receptive to the suffering of others. Being able to recognize it in others might be a huge benefit that allows you to provide the compassion and empathy to understand and be a good support for them. Some folks may not have the emotional intelligence nor maturity to work with others suffering much less their own. I see it as a pershable skill that must be constantly developed to help accommodate others unique needs and must must be consciously cultivated.

To live is to suffer, I don't think we are meant to go through this human experience without suffering. Regardless throughout ones life we are going to face life events that prepare us for further suffering. I feel there is a certain level of acceptance and surrender to ease our suffering that is strengthened with the wisdom of living life

 

[northape]

Stay put, without trying to escape from the situation or pushing any of your own projections onto it.
It's the biggest grace you can offer to another. Like a lighting rod, hold space and let them express their pain and anxiety.
It's easier said than done, though. Your degree of emotional maturity and presence plays a huge role here.
Compassion and love are good, but they come by themselves when you are open.
Regardless, it's all words once again. Your response will be natural and dependent on your conditioning.
So all you can do is to prepare beforehand. Life itself is preparation. Does it make any sense?

 

[CosmicRiver]

Compassion and empathy are a couple of tools that may help implement when working with others suffering.

yes but empathy also makes me feel the suffering of others very strongly

@northape i don't know if you were replying to me or Kobranek, either way yes it makes sense. and i'm starting to realize that probably by letting the suffering of others overwhelm me i can't provide as much help to them as i could

 

[northape]

i don't know if you were replying to me or Kobranek, either way yes it makes sense. and i'm starting to realize that probably by letting the suffering of others overwhelm me i can't provide as much help to them as i could

I was just mumbling to myself and wondering if it resonates with anyone.

An old zen metaphor comes to mind:
Be like a hollow bamboo. Wind flows through. There is a melody, but no one is playing.

If we are present even to our incapacity toward being present, grace fills the space.
Emotion, wishes, thoughts are like the wind in a hollow bamboo. They just pass through.
We feel emotions and sorrow, just it's an error to fixate & hold on to them.
And we all tend to get carried away.