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The TRANSDERMAL DMT Thread
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It seems that powdered DMT desolved in an alcohol base should absorbe into the skin...
The only problem may be that the dmt efect may come on too slowly into system?...but this may make it more like a ..very slow... entrance into the oral experisance?
But again how much of the dose will get through the skin?
I think one needs to study how layered skin patches are built.. and the speed they work...matrix verses resovour type patches...ect...
The only problem may be that the dmt efect may come on too slowly into system?...but this may make it more like a ..very slow... entrance into the oral experisance?
But again how much of the dose will get through the skin?
I think one needs to study how layered skin patches are built.. and the speed they work...matrix verses resovour type patches...ect...
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
It is flammable, and also has much lower viscosity than fats and oils. Granted, it works for perfumes and, more relevantly, embrocation. How much alcohol would be needed for, say, 166mg DMT?starway6 said:
As house stated earlier on in the thread, slow onset is not necessarily a bad thing and has possibilities that a 'one-hit wonder' might not hold. It really depends on what you're looking for.
It would be worth considering which essential oils, if any, might aid the absorption too. That could make one mean muscle rub.
Ayahuasca Mud
IridiumandLace has suggested in another thread that diy transdermal cannabis patches utilize the terpene nerolidol to facilitate transdermal administration, and a simple solution of nerolidol/propylene glycol/dmt added to a silicone and gauze patch could possibly be an effective means of transdermal dmt administration.
I have agreed to follow her lead and attempt to duplicate her results and/or try variations on this to broaden the approach. I believe the intent is to have an extended release microdose of sorts, but it could yield some interesting results in any event.
In my cursory look at the transdermal patch industry, it seems there are a lot of manufacturers who would be happy to put your products into their specialized time release fabric/membrane layers, but no one wants to sell you said material outright. There are a few reservoir type time release transdermal patches (some electrically operated) that appear to be available to individuals to buy in small quantities for about $10US per patch.
According to some patents held in the cannabis industry, the transdermal patches currently available have anywhere from one to fifteen percent nerolidol or other similar agent in them. Pubchem warns it can be irritating to the skin and lungs and can cause damage to the eyes when handling the pure compound, but it’s widely used in food and personal care products, so generally deemed safe when more dilute. Also from Pubchem, nerolidol is soluble in just about any oil you might consider safe for ingestion. so if you’d prefer to substitute olive oil for the propylene glycol, it may work just as well.
The transdermal patch industry also informs us that any molecule that’s lighter than 500 daltons is a good candidate for transdermal ingestion. So it looks like pretty much every molecule of interest to this community is a possibility here. I could literally not find any psychedelic molecules that were too big. Transdermal pharmahuasca anyone?
Anyway, I’ve got my materials together and I’m ready when you are IridiumandLace. No hurry, if your “disposable “ time is getting absorbed by your current work on the reduction of dmt polymers - no worries. Hope to see you here soon :thumb_up:
I have agreed to follow her lead and attempt to duplicate her results and/or try variations on this to broaden the approach. I believe the intent is to have an extended release microdose of sorts, but it could yield some interesting results in any event.
In my cursory look at the transdermal patch industry, it seems there are a lot of manufacturers who would be happy to put your products into their specialized time release fabric/membrane layers, but no one wants to sell you said material outright. There are a few reservoir type time release transdermal patches (some electrically operated) that appear to be available to individuals to buy in small quantities for about $10US per patch.
According to some patents held in the cannabis industry, the transdermal patches currently available have anywhere from one to fifteen percent nerolidol or other similar agent in them. Pubchem warns it can be irritating to the skin and lungs and can cause damage to the eyes when handling the pure compound, but it’s widely used in food and personal care products, so generally deemed safe when more dilute. Also from Pubchem, nerolidol is soluble in just about any oil you might consider safe for ingestion. so if you’d prefer to substitute olive oil for the propylene glycol, it may work just as well.
The transdermal patch industry also informs us that any molecule that’s lighter than 500 daltons is a good candidate for transdermal ingestion. So it looks like pretty much every molecule of interest to this community is a possibility here. I could literally not find any psychedelic molecules that were too big. Transdermal pharmahuasca anyone?
Anyway, I’ve got my materials together and I’m ready when you are IridiumandLace. No hurry, if your “disposable “ time is getting absorbed by your current work on the reduction of dmt polymers - no worries. Hope to see you here soon :thumb_up:
are you saying that the DMT molecule is lighter than 500 daltons?
I think..they have already created a dmt transdermal patch!
[read info below]............
Benzinga
Biotech Co. Psilera Inc. Closes $2.5 Million Seed Round For Transdermal DMT Research
Natan Ponieman
July 1, 2021·1 min read
Florida-based Psilera Inc. has secured $2.5 million in funding for research, scientific and clinical personnel hiring and general working purposes.
The company issued approximately 4.3 million shares to private buyers at a cost of $0.57 per share.
Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug (IND) filing with the FDA before the end of the year.
Earlier this year, Psilera received DEA approval to research DMT, psilocybin and psilocin.
Innovative delivery methods combined with DMT’s short duration of action could lead to a revolutionary new line of psychiatric medicines, according to the company, which touts the benefits of DMT in contrast to other psychedelics like psilocybin.
The company also noted that DMT does not appear to generate tolerance in humans as other psychedelics do. The compound's short duration is believed to enable possible improvements in patient access. Lastly, it is “one of the only psychedelics shown to maintain neurological activity at sub-psychedelic doses, called 'microdoses.'”
The company, which is developing an IP portfolio of novel molecules that will move into animal trials later this year, is also leveraging computational drug screening methods to inform its drug development pipeline.
“We remain patient-focused in our approach and are excited to transition into the clinic to gather safety and tolerability data from our extended-release DMT patch while continuing to strengthen our robust IP portfolio,” said Dr. Chris Witowski, co-founder and CEO of Psilera Bioscience.
Photo: Psilera co-founders, Drs. Jackie von Salm & Chris Witowski. Courtesy picture.d
[go to site to see pictures]....
Biotech Co. Psilera Inc. Closes $2.5 Million Seed Round For ...https://www.yahoo.com › now ›
biotech-co-psilera-inc-...
Psilera Raises $2.5 Million with Oversubscribed Series Seed ...https://www.prweb.com › releases › prweb18046014
Jul 1, 2021 — Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug ...
Biotech Company Psilera Closes .5 ... - B2BAmericanSoutheast.comhttps://b2bamericansoutheast.com › technology-se-news
Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug (IND) filing with ...
Psyched: GH Research Debuts on Nasdaq, Compass ...https://markets.businessinsider.com › news › stocks › ps...
Jul 2, 2021 — Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch that it expects to put through a phase 1b clinical trial.
Psilera Raises $2.5M in Seed Funding | FinSMEshttps://www.finsmes.com › 2021/07 › psilera-raises-2-5...
Jul 1, 2021 — The company has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new ...
Related searches
Jul 1, 2021 — Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug ...
I think..they have already created a dmt transdermal patch!
[read info below]............
Benzinga
Biotech Co. Psilera Inc. Closes $2.5 Million Seed Round For Transdermal DMT Research
Natan Ponieman
July 1, 2021·1 min read
Florida-based Psilera Inc. has secured $2.5 million in funding for research, scientific and clinical personnel hiring and general working purposes.
The company issued approximately 4.3 million shares to private buyers at a cost of $0.57 per share.
Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug (IND) filing with the FDA before the end of the year.
Earlier this year, Psilera received DEA approval to research DMT, psilocybin and psilocin.
Innovative delivery methods combined with DMT’s short duration of action could lead to a revolutionary new line of psychiatric medicines, according to the company, which touts the benefits of DMT in contrast to other psychedelics like psilocybin.
The company also noted that DMT does not appear to generate tolerance in humans as other psychedelics do. The compound's short duration is believed to enable possible improvements in patient access. Lastly, it is “one of the only psychedelics shown to maintain neurological activity at sub-psychedelic doses, called 'microdoses.'”
The company, which is developing an IP portfolio of novel molecules that will move into animal trials later this year, is also leveraging computational drug screening methods to inform its drug development pipeline.
“We remain patient-focused in our approach and are excited to transition into the clinic to gather safety and tolerability data from our extended-release DMT patch while continuing to strengthen our robust IP portfolio,” said Dr. Chris Witowski, co-founder and CEO of Psilera Bioscience.
Photo: Psilera co-founders, Drs. Jackie von Salm & Chris Witowski. Courtesy picture.d
[go to site to see pictures]....
Biotech Co. Psilera Inc. Closes $2.5 Million Seed Round For ...https://www.yahoo.com › now ›
biotech-co-psilera-inc-...
Psilera Raises $2.5 Million with Oversubscribed Series Seed ...https://www.prweb.com › releases › prweb18046014
Jul 1, 2021 — Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug ...
Biotech Company Psilera Closes .5 ... - B2BAmericanSoutheast.comhttps://b2bamericansoutheast.com › technology-se-news
Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug (IND) filing with ...
Psyched: GH Research Debuts on Nasdaq, Compass ...https://markets.businessinsider.com › news › stocks › ps...
Jul 2, 2021 — Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch that it expects to put through a phase 1b clinical trial.
Psilera Raises $2.5M in Seed Funding | FinSMEshttps://www.finsmes.com › 2021/07 › psilera-raises-2-5...
Jul 1, 2021 — The company has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new ...
Related searches
Jul 1, 2021 — Psilera has developed a patent-pending DMT transdermal patch to be assessed in a Phase 1b clinical trial with an investigational new drug ...
starway7 said:
Yes, I saw the article that you copied and pasted in the other thread. Unfortunately, you doing that had the effect of that Nexus thread being one of the top search engine hits on any general search on transdermal dmt. One of the reasons I appreciated IridiumandLace wanting to move our conversation to this thread was the fact that this thread did not draw the same amount of attention without your copy and paste article, and I was planning on removing my comments from that thread in the interest of security. I’d really prefer not to draw the ire of a group that has invested millions of dollars or extra attention from law enforcement. Is there a chance you could edit your post in this thread to mention that article and post a link instead of a facsimile of the entire article, please?
And yes, if I’m not miscomprehending the data on Pubchem, it appears that dmt, harmine, harmaline, thh, ibogaine, psilocin, psilocybin, salvinorin, mescaline, mdma, penniclavine, etc., all have molecular weights below 500 daltons.
The only problem with transdermal is that there is a sustained delivery period over 12 hours, for example, here is Ergopharm's 4-androstenediol Androspray, in an alcohol base with penetration enhancers, I used the stuff back when it was legal, you spray it all over your forearms, the 4-ad converts to testosterone once it reaches the bloodstream at a rate of 95% due to enzyme activity in the bloodstream.
The 4-ad having a molecular weight or mass of 290 g/mol, like testosterone base at 288g/mol, or even dmt with mass of 188 g/mol will penetrate easily into the bloodstream (as they all have very low molecular weights) at an even rate over a 12 hour period, so you keep a sustained level of the drug over the course of the day in your bloodstream.
You will not be able to achieve a full entheogenic dosage that reaches full effects in 22 minutes like under the tongue sublingual, or even oral dosage which reaches full effects in around 45 minutes, instead you get a very small dosage of the drug every hour on the hour, which continues all day long.
Sublingual recommendation, all absorbs in less than 15 minutes: Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
pic: compare Ergopharm's androspray which is sprayed onto forearms to give all day sustained drug delivery with ergopharm's sublingual HPBCD 4-ad placed under tongue, absorbs in less than 10 minutes. 4-ad drug then spikes and gives 3 hours of strong activity.
The 4-ad having a molecular weight or mass of 290 g/mol, like testosterone base at 288g/mol, or even dmt with mass of 188 g/mol will penetrate easily into the bloodstream (as they all have very low molecular weights) at an even rate over a 12 hour period, so you keep a sustained level of the drug over the course of the day in your bloodstream.
You will not be able to achieve a full entheogenic dosage that reaches full effects in 22 minutes like under the tongue sublingual, or even oral dosage which reaches full effects in around 45 minutes, instead you get a very small dosage of the drug every hour on the hour, which continues all day long.
Sublingual recommendation, all absorbs in less than 15 minutes: Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
pic: compare Ergopharm's androspray which is sprayed onto forearms to give all day sustained drug delivery with ergopharm's sublingual HPBCD 4-ad placed under tongue, absorbs in less than 10 minutes. 4-ad drug then spikes and gives 3 hours of strong activity.
Attachments
Yes, I’ve been following your sublingual research and appreciate what you’re doing. I find it interesting and may participate some time.
However, as I mentioned in the above post, sustained microdosing is the intended initial goal for the work with nerolidol. I’m aware that etOH and dsmo, etc. are also used to help facilitate transdermal administration, but appreciate any input you have the time to offer regarding the transdermal subject on the whole.
However, as I mentioned in the above post, sustained microdosing is the intended initial goal for the work with nerolidol. I’m aware that etOH and dsmo, etc. are also used to help facilitate transdermal administration, but appreciate any input you have the time to offer regarding the transdermal subject on the whole.
IridiumAndLace
Stardust in lingerie
Continuing this discussion from the other day, I've decided to attempt a trial run of transdermal DMT administration. My hypothetical protocol is based on this video, outlining how THC can be delivered transdermally using emu oil and Nerolidol as a carrier and absorption enhancer, respectively.
I already had emu oil, so I ordered some of this Nerolidol and a set of these patches. (The MedVance patches I wanted to get were out of stock at the time I ordered.) While I wait for the patches to arrive, I figured I'd try a test run using an extra silicone scar strip I happened to have, plus a nonstick bandage pad. For the test run:
• Cut a 5cm by 2cm pad and place it in the center of the silicone strip, leaving 1cm of border on all sides
• Mix 10ml of emu oil with 0.3ml of Nerolidol
• Pipette out 0.5ml of oil/Nerolidol mixture onto a deep watch glass
• Add 75mg of white xtal DMT FB
• Warm gently with hot water and stir until the DMT dissolves completely
• Draw up the resulting liquid and place it onto the pad
• • Note: A pad that size could easily have held twice that much oil. I would also like to have used double that much spice, but that's all I had handy at the time.
• Apply the patch to the inner forearm, which had previously been washed, exfoliated, and swabbed with rubbing alcohol.
• Wait and see what, if anything, happens
I'll report back soon!
I already had emu oil, so I ordered some of this Nerolidol and a set of these patches. (The MedVance patches I wanted to get were out of stock at the time I ordered.) While I wait for the patches to arrive, I figured I'd try a test run using an extra silicone scar strip I happened to have, plus a nonstick bandage pad. For the test run:
• Cut a 5cm by 2cm pad and place it in the center of the silicone strip, leaving 1cm of border on all sides
• Mix 10ml of emu oil with 0.3ml of Nerolidol
• Pipette out 0.5ml of oil/Nerolidol mixture onto a deep watch glass
• Add 75mg of white xtal DMT FB
• Warm gently with hot water and stir until the DMT dissolves completely
• Draw up the resulting liquid and place it onto the pad
• • Note: A pad that size could easily have held twice that much oil. I would also like to have used double that much spice, but that's all I had handy at the time.
• Apply the patch to the inner forearm, which had previously been washed, exfoliated, and swabbed with rubbing alcohol.
• Wait and see what, if anything, happens
I'll report back soon!
Good journey IridiumandLace!
I hope it doses at a desirable rate for you. I do not have emu oil on hand but may follow suit by substituting with shae oil instead (as suggested by 1ce in the post above). Eagerly anticipating your report and if you’ve any recommendations to change the dmt concentration/total volume.
I hope it doses at a desirable rate for you. I do not have emu oil on hand but may follow suit by substituting with shae oil instead (as suggested by 1ce in the post above). Eagerly anticipating your report and if you’ve any recommendations to change the dmt concentration/total volume.
IridiumAndLace
Stardust in lingerie
I have results! Mixed results, but results nonetheless.
1. At 30 minutes post application, the edges of the silicone scar strip began to lift due to the oil spreading across my akin underneath it. I ended up having to tape it down with paper medical tape, which was less than convennient and ended up absorbing some quantity of oil itself.
2. I had the patch on for 7 hours total. During that time, the only effect I noticed was a very slight increase in visual perception, sort of like I had been seeing the world in 420p mode, and then switched to 1080p? It was suble enough that it absolutely could have been a placebo effect. I felt no other effects that I could say for sure were unique to DMT.
3. I weighed the patch before applying it and after removing it, and found that it had lost only 56mg of mass, or about 10% of the oil mixture I had applied. The pad was still very wet with oil, although it didn't smell very strongly of nerolidol any more. I have no way of quantifying how much DMT it still contained.
4. Shortly after applying the patch I felt a very slight irritation on the skin under it, but this was not bothersome. I'd periodically massage the patch, and after a few hours I began to notice my arm hurt slightly under the patch. Again, it didn't bother me. However, after removing the patch, I found a raised, red, inflamed, not-quite-painless area of skin, 5cm by 2cm, directly under where the pad had been. Not itchy, just red and swollen. 12 hours later, this inflamed rectangle is still present, and I put topical hydrocortisone cream on half of it to see how that helps.
Analysis:
• Emu oil is not an ideal carrier for this application, due to its tendency to spread and cause the patch to fall off. It may work for "lotion" type topical application, but for patches I may try using PG or glycerine instead.
• 75mg in 0.5ml of carrier oil appears to be much too low of a concentration. I don't think I would have been able to tell this from a placebo, it was definitely a sub-threahold dose. And, assuming the concentration of DMT in the oil remained the same (my skin didn't "pull" DMT out of the oil), my total dose was less than 7.5mg over 7 hours, and possibly far less actually made it into my bloodstream.
• I assume the nerolidol was the cause of the skin inflammation. I'll try another small patch test without any DMT to be sure. I'm not sure where to go with that; the oil was only 3% Nerolidol so it wasn't *that* strong. Again, maybe that's best left for topical application and an enhancer is unnecessary with a properly-formulated patch.
Conclusions:
I'm mulling over where to go from here. Assuming—generously—that 10 cm² of skin can readily absorb 0.05ml of emu oil, I could just as easily have covered most of my forearm with that much oil, and I dunno, covered it with a bit of plastic wrap until it absorbed completely. Since my skin did seem to "pull" the nerolidol out of the oil, I may do a skin sensitivity test with this as well. Maybe we can develop the emu oil into a topical lotion rather than a patch. Along those same lines, we could do the same thing using any carrier that will dissolve DMT, like PG or EtOH. Maybe try dissolving some DMT into some fragrance-free hand sanitizer and rubbing that in, with or without nerolidol added?
For the patches, I think my future experiments will focus on using a different carrier such as PG instead of oil, and eliminating the nerolidol due to the skin irritation it (presumably) causes. I'm also pondering the idea of a "wet" patch using water as a carrier for dissolved DMT fumarate. (Does fumarate absob through the skin?) I've never worked with fumarate though, so that'd be a learning curve for me. This could, in theory, work very well since the skin absorbs water readily and the body quickly transports it away, hopefully carrying dissolved salts off with it.
(Important note, the patches I linked above won't work for water-based patches because the sponges are designed to absorb and retain water. At the very least you'd have to remove the sponge and replace it with some other sort of pad.)
Suggestions?
1. At 30 minutes post application, the edges of the silicone scar strip began to lift due to the oil spreading across my akin underneath it. I ended up having to tape it down with paper medical tape, which was less than convennient and ended up absorbing some quantity of oil itself.
2. I had the patch on for 7 hours total. During that time, the only effect I noticed was a very slight increase in visual perception, sort of like I had been seeing the world in 420p mode, and then switched to 1080p? It was suble enough that it absolutely could have been a placebo effect. I felt no other effects that I could say for sure were unique to DMT.
3. I weighed the patch before applying it and after removing it, and found that it had lost only 56mg of mass, or about 10% of the oil mixture I had applied. The pad was still very wet with oil, although it didn't smell very strongly of nerolidol any more. I have no way of quantifying how much DMT it still contained.
4. Shortly after applying the patch I felt a very slight irritation on the skin under it, but this was not bothersome. I'd periodically massage the patch, and after a few hours I began to notice my arm hurt slightly under the patch. Again, it didn't bother me. However, after removing the patch, I found a raised, red, inflamed, not-quite-painless area of skin, 5cm by 2cm, directly under where the pad had been. Not itchy, just red and swollen. 12 hours later, this inflamed rectangle is still present, and I put topical hydrocortisone cream on half of it to see how that helps.
Analysis:
• Emu oil is not an ideal carrier for this application, due to its tendency to spread and cause the patch to fall off. It may work for "lotion" type topical application, but for patches I may try using PG or glycerine instead.
• 75mg in 0.5ml of carrier oil appears to be much too low of a concentration. I don't think I would have been able to tell this from a placebo, it was definitely a sub-threahold dose. And, assuming the concentration of DMT in the oil remained the same (my skin didn't "pull" DMT out of the oil), my total dose was less than 7.5mg over 7 hours, and possibly far less actually made it into my bloodstream.
• I assume the nerolidol was the cause of the skin inflammation. I'll try another small patch test without any DMT to be sure. I'm not sure where to go with that; the oil was only 3% Nerolidol so it wasn't *that* strong. Again, maybe that's best left for topical application and an enhancer is unnecessary with a properly-formulated patch.
Conclusions:
I'm mulling over where to go from here. Assuming—generously—that 10 cm² of skin can readily absorb 0.05ml of emu oil, I could just as easily have covered most of my forearm with that much oil, and I dunno, covered it with a bit of plastic wrap until it absorbed completely. Since my skin did seem to "pull" the nerolidol out of the oil, I may do a skin sensitivity test with this as well. Maybe we can develop the emu oil into a topical lotion rather than a patch. Along those same lines, we could do the same thing using any carrier that will dissolve DMT, like PG or EtOH. Maybe try dissolving some DMT into some fragrance-free hand sanitizer and rubbing that in, with or without nerolidol added?
For the patches, I think my future experiments will focus on using a different carrier such as PG instead of oil, and eliminating the nerolidol due to the skin irritation it (presumably) causes. I'm also pondering the idea of a "wet" patch using water as a carrier for dissolved DMT fumarate. (Does fumarate absob through the skin?) I've never worked with fumarate though, so that'd be a learning curve for me. This could, in theory, work very well since the skin absorbs water readily and the body quickly transports it away, hopefully carrying dissolved salts off with it.
(Important note, the patches I linked above won't work for water-based patches because the sponges are designed to absorb and retain water. At the very least you'd have to remove the sponge and replace it with some other sort of pad.)
Suggestions?
Sounds like it dosed at a rate that I was interested in exploring 
. I think I’ll do a trial with 3% nerolidol (sans dmt) and see if I get the same sort of irritation, and then do a run with similar ratios using dmt//nerolidol/with shea in place of emu, next weekend.
I’m guessing, as you and others in this thread have noted, dmt dissolved in ethyl alcohol would be absorbed more quickly than a fat. Gauze may lend itself more to a quicker release than foam, as well, I’m guessing. Just to mention, as per Pubchem, Nerolidol is not soluble in glycerin.
Anyway, great work so far!
. I think I’ll do a trial with 3% nerolidol (sans dmt) and see if I get the same sort of irritation, and then do a run with similar ratios using dmt//nerolidol/with shea in place of emu, next weekend.I’m guessing, as you and others in this thread have noted, dmt dissolved in ethyl alcohol would be absorbed more quickly than a fat. Gauze may lend itself more to a quicker release than foam, as well, I’m guessing. Just to mention, as per Pubchem, Nerolidol is not soluble in glycerin.
Anyway, great work so far!
Problem with the foam type of patch is that it will hold the magik in it somewhat, so you`ll need plenty of carrier to mobilize it out of the patch into skin. The silicone patch looks great IF it doesn`t withhold the substance like a foam. Aim for a full and direct contact with the skin. Skin absorption is going to be slow anyways.
Question: I would expect that you get almost no effect without MAOi, shouldn`t a combo be the goal to get any psychedelia?
Rub off a bit of the skin surface you would apply onto, like scrub it a bit with cosmetic related scrubbers (mechanical or chemical) then moisturize the spot, it should flake off the outer layers of keratin and improve absorption somewhat. Downside is that it will be more sensitive to whatever irritates the skin, it should be bearable though.
Another (stupid and lame) suggestion would be very small `scarrifications`, like toad venom applications that some (crazy) people do. You get a clean needle and scrape its tip parallel to the skin until you get to subcutaneous level, then you place the goods in the exposed area. That totally bypasses keratin barrier. Again, `stupid, lame, crazy` suggestion. I wouldn`t say it is dangerous if you do it carefully and higienic. Please don`t burn me for saying this one.
Question: I would expect that you get almost no effect without MAOi, shouldn`t a combo be the goal to get any psychedelia?
Rub off a bit of the skin surface you would apply onto, like scrub it a bit with cosmetic related scrubbers (mechanical or chemical) then moisturize the spot, it should flake off the outer layers of keratin and improve absorption somewhat. Downside is that it will be more sensitive to whatever irritates the skin, it should be bearable though.
Another (stupid and lame) suggestion would be very small `scarrifications`, like toad venom applications that some (crazy) people do. You get a clean needle and scrape its tip parallel to the skin until you get to subcutaneous level, then you place the goods in the exposed area. That totally bypasses keratin barrier. Again, `stupid, lame, crazy` suggestion. I wouldn`t say it is dangerous if you do it carefully and higienic. Please don`t burn me for saying this one.
Hey Ruffles, I’m glad you’re chiming in! I’ve been enjoying following your work on sublingual administration:thumb_up:
I’m assuming once the dmt has gotten directly into the bloodstream, it’s bypassed a lot of the monoamine oxidase, but maybe one of the more learned folks who’ve already participated in this thread will be attracted back as more actual work gets done. I have some harmalas on hand and plan to incorporate them at some point, but primarily plan to approximate IridiumandLace’s work.
And I have considered doing kambo again, fairly recently so don’t think that was such an awful suggestion, but I’m hoping it won’t be necessary in these circumstances. My preferred goal is a sustained microdose, though I’ll be happy to attempt to duplicate any results within reason.
I’m assuming once the dmt has gotten directly into the bloodstream, it’s bypassed a lot of the monoamine oxidase, but maybe one of the more learned folks who’ve already participated in this thread will be attracted back as more actual work gets done. I have some harmalas on hand and plan to incorporate them at some point, but primarily plan to approximate IridiumandLace’s work.
And I have considered doing kambo again, fairly recently so don’t think that was such an awful suggestion, but I’m hoping it won’t be necessary in these circumstances. My preferred goal is a sustained microdose, though I’ll be happy to attempt to duplicate any results within reason.
IridiumAndLace
Stardust in lingerie
Ruffles said:
Transdermal delivery *should* bypass most of the body's MAO, making a combo unnecessary. However, I suspect the delivery is too slow and inefficient to be useful for inducing the kind of psychedelia offered by other methods.
Ruffles said:
Yep, that's what I did. I washed and exfoliated the patch site, followed by an alcohol swab. I'm definitely not comfortable altering or damaging my skin further than this to increase absorption, the margins for error there are just too narrow. Those patches with the embedded microneedles could be an interesting delivery method, but I don't see any way a citizen scientist would be able to safely homebrew something like that.
IridiumAndLace
Stardust in lingerie
(Apologies for the double post)
Well folks, I have another result, albeit definitely not the one I hoped for. I did a skin sensitivity test, identical to the last test, with a 1 cm² pad containing just emu oil and nerolidol. After 7 hours I removed the patch, and... No reaction. I couldn't smell any nerolidol left in the patch, and my skin was just fine.
Meanwhile, the red rectangle on my other arm is less inflamed and fading slowly, but still clearly visible. Hydrocortisone had no effect.
From this, I'm forced to the unfortunate conclusion that it was the DMT freebase that was the cause of the irritation, NOT the nerolidol as previously thought. (My DMT is very pure, so I don't believe extraction byproducts were the cause.) This spice was pretty dilute, so I'm concerned that a stronger concentration of DMT would rapidly increase the severity of the irritation.
Not sure where to go from here, since freebase DMT in a patch appears to be a bad idea. One option is to try the "lotion" approach, applying a thin layer of DMT-laden carrier as an oil, cream, gel, or even a spray over a broad area to lessen the irritation at any one particular site. The other option is to see if a salt of DMT can permeate the skin, and if it causes the same irritation that FB does.
Since I've never worked with DMT fumarate, I might try an alcohol-based delivery method going forward myself, probably in gel form. Gonna have to think this one through a bit.
Well folks, I have another result, albeit definitely not the one I hoped for. I did a skin sensitivity test, identical to the last test, with a 1 cm² pad containing just emu oil and nerolidol. After 7 hours I removed the patch, and... No reaction. I couldn't smell any nerolidol left in the patch, and my skin was just fine.
Meanwhile, the red rectangle on my other arm is less inflamed and fading slowly, but still clearly visible. Hydrocortisone had no effect.
From this, I'm forced to the unfortunate conclusion that it was the DMT freebase that was the cause of the irritation, NOT the nerolidol as previously thought. (My DMT is very pure, so I don't believe extraction byproducts were the cause.) This spice was pretty dilute, so I'm concerned that a stronger concentration of DMT would rapidly increase the severity of the irritation.
Not sure where to go from here, since freebase DMT in a patch appears to be a bad idea. One option is to try the "lotion" approach, applying a thin layer of DMT-laden carrier as an oil, cream, gel, or even a spray over a broad area to lessen the irritation at any one particular site. The other option is to see if a salt of DMT can permeate the skin, and if it causes the same irritation that FB does.
Since I've never worked with DMT fumarate, I might try an alcohol-based delivery method going forward myself, probably in gel form. Gonna have to think this one through a bit.
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