SWIM's is interested in everyone's varying and unique opinions on this matter, but definitely falls into the group that believes that DMT somehow allows one to access other realms or dimensions. Of course inside the mind or outside the mind, ultimately it may be all one and the same. fascinating stuff.
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Theory of DMT Entities
- Thread starter carruthers
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smokeydaze
Dragunov Mylshka Teapot
But what about instead of traveling to this other realm/dimensions you hijack your brain into a (another dimension) program which has been designed in every aspect. Just like the matrix 
smokeydaze said:But what about instead of traveling to this other realm/dimensions you hijack your brain into a (another dimension) program which has been designed in every aspect. Just like the matrix
I don't know about that, but I DID just have full on dejavu as I read your post. Crazy! :lol:
smokeydaze
Dragunov Mylshka Teapot
carruthers said:
As obviously belligerent my response was, I'd love to discuss with you further your opinions on the possibility of an embedded code which is unlocked by the (simple) dmt molecule.
Totally side ways and separate from this curiosity is an experience I'd like to share that happened moments ago:
a virus/hack into the normal closed eye dmt realm.
what evolved was a teddy bear space ship.
textures were flat and mono coloured (mostly brown from memory), as opposed to the deep and florescent genuine aesthetics.
though an assimilation between the two was evident.
a 3d realm was definitely present.
jagged intersections of overlapping shapes/forms, similar to a poorly computer generated animation.
the experience started as normal, but an odly bright circle evolved the start of the hack.
throughout, the normal brilliance of dmt happenings could be seen overlapping the background.
very patchy, had a cut and paste quality.
till eventually the alternated program gradually dissolved into the normal happenings.
overall, a definite and obvious HACK of dmt.
wtf.?
To practically most, it will sound like the ramblings of a madman. But as hesitant as I was to share this experience I knew SOMEWHERE out there there is someone accountable for this absurd anomaly.!
Questions I have many.
carruthers
Rising Star
Interesting experience. There's certainly much more to the picture than the simplistic theory in the OP. Without an understanding of what causes the dmt effects it's difficult to say for sure what the dmt hack represents. I tend to want to speculate about it in neurological terms, such as the presence of a certain vibrational harmonic in the brain's electrical patterns , or the activation of certain brain regions which emit signals that become visible through dmt consciousness and expand like blooming flowers into complex shapes of vision and thought.
My intuition says the neurological perspective is too basic and low-level to describe or explain the most interesting aspects of dmt consciousness. One problem is that it's difficult to agree on a higher-level framework for discussing psychedelic effects and the existing concepts and language is inadequate and misleading.
My intuition says the neurological perspective is too basic and low-level to describe or explain the most interesting aspects of dmt consciousness. One problem is that it's difficult to agree on a higher-level framework for discussing psychedelic effects and the existing concepts and language is inadequate and misleading.
smokeydaze
Dragunov Mylshka Teapot
But we can always try 
SWIM says, "Last night I had acquaintance come over and try the freebase. She had spent the whole day with her mother and sister. After she took in her 35mg she had some pretty serious audio hallucinations of her mother and sister." I think the reason that this happened for her was because of your theory. I know that when I am with nagging family members all day, by the end of the day I can hear that crap in my head over and over again. It takes a good night of sleep for my brain to reset. =P I think that if she would have popped into hyperspace the neurological bullshit would have subsided.
LOL. However, most of the entities that we come into contact with do not resemble the people we know in waking reality... not in the least. Also, we don't know if the DMT experience "violates" the known laws of physics. In my opinion it doesn't violate any known laws. I like to take the side of true otherly entity contact. We don't know much about the higher dimensions but we know they are there. Our scientific understanding of higher dimensions is very limited. We don't even know what the deal with consciousness is. So, saying that the DMT experience violates the laws of physics is bull! You can't name one that it violates.
Also, I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our children.
LOL. However, most of the entities that we come into contact with do not resemble the people we know in waking reality... not in the least. Also, we don't know if the DMT experience "violates" the known laws of physics. In my opinion it doesn't violate any known laws. I like to take the side of true otherly entity contact. We don't know much about the higher dimensions but we know they are there. Our scientific understanding of higher dimensions is very limited. We don't even know what the deal with consciousness is. So, saying that the DMT experience violates the laws of physics is bull! You can't name one that it violates.
Also, I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our children.
how about the idea that the mind, or what we call consciousness itself is non-local and non-temporal? that it is a field of awareness independent of the brain and that the brain and body is a different level of density of the mind field. this is kinda radical panpsychism ( you can look that up if you like). now as the buddhists say there is only one mind and many bodies... then there is only one self with infinite manifestations... these "other" beings are projections of this one minds imagination, and is co-creative in its expressions with our own sense of individuality and creativity/imagination. they are autonomous just as we are but are also dependant upon the same basic mind/self/awareness that we are, thus their ability to interact with us during entheogen sessions and altered states, they are interdependent expressions of the whole just as we are... and represent the collective minds ability to assist aspects of it to grow and appear to us as alien or other because they are aspects of mind that we as aspects of mind have not become fully aware of yet... if you follow me there.
olderROM I am not following you.
And why is the buddhist interpretation of the psychedelic experience or reality valid?
So your suggesting that there is some kind of intelligent backround or overmind that governs all matter and energy in the universe? I can't follow these kinds of arguments because they aren't based on anything except what I consider to be mis-interpretations of mystical experiences.
Where is the evidence that consciousness is non-local meaning outside of the brain and where is the evidence that its non temporal meaning it exists outside of time? Consciousness is not located within one specific part of the brain it seems and consciousness is certainly capable of interpreting time differently depending on numerous factors but still that doesn't lend any real evidence to what you are saying.
I have always noticed that the colors of the room SWIM is in am greatly influence the colors SWIM sees on DMT. Even minor colors that are making up the colors that one normally sees can dominate instead of the mixture of colors in non-dmt space. The patterns are also very simple yet beautiful representations of the shapes and images around SWIM that SWIMs mind is trying to interpret but can't because its on dmt. So it creates these flowing tubes of color and images that paint the picture of SWIMs brains inability to really see whats going on around SWIM. The same goes for when eyes are closed. Your eyes begin to project images of whatever is buried within your mind. Since its altered it creates visions of impossible creatures because your brain reconstructs information differently under the influence of DMT. This is how I tend to look at these experiences.
Are you saying that someone out there influenced SWIYs dmt experience to the point of causing drastically different effects? Or am I not understanding anything?
Because it does not make any sense whatsoever.
Where does the idea that someone a long time ago programmed information into the dmt molecule? It doesn't even make sense. I don't get these ideas.
Well dmt dosing probably does influence gene expression but that doesn't mean genes are being expressed that release new information that turns into a dmt experience. That doesn't make sense either. Your genes code for the proteins in your body they don't magically release conscious information into your brain. I think your grossly misinterpreting the role of DNA in the body.
I am sorry but no one is forming a coherent theory about these experiences.
And why is the buddhist interpretation of the psychedelic experience or reality valid?
So your suggesting that there is some kind of intelligent backround or overmind that governs all matter and energy in the universe? I can't follow these kinds of arguments because they aren't based on anything except what I consider to be mis-interpretations of mystical experiences.
Where is the evidence that consciousness is non-local meaning outside of the brain and where is the evidence that its non temporal meaning it exists outside of time? Consciousness is not located within one specific part of the brain it seems and consciousness is certainly capable of interpreting time differently depending on numerous factors but still that doesn't lend any real evidence to what you are saying.
I have always noticed that the colors of the room SWIM is in am greatly influence the colors SWIM sees on DMT. Even minor colors that are making up the colors that one normally sees can dominate instead of the mixture of colors in non-dmt space. The patterns are also very simple yet beautiful representations of the shapes and images around SWIM that SWIMs mind is trying to interpret but can't because its on dmt. So it creates these flowing tubes of color and images that paint the picture of SWIMs brains inability to really see whats going on around SWIM. The same goes for when eyes are closed. Your eyes begin to project images of whatever is buried within your mind. Since its altered it creates visions of impossible creatures because your brain reconstructs information differently under the influence of DMT. This is how I tend to look at these experiences.
Are you saying that someone out there influenced SWIYs dmt experience to the point of causing drastically different effects? Or am I not understanding anything?
Because it does not make any sense whatsoever.
Where does the idea that someone a long time ago programmed information into the dmt molecule? It doesn't even make sense. I don't get these ideas.
Well dmt dosing probably does influence gene expression but that doesn't mean genes are being expressed that release new information that turns into a dmt experience. That doesn't make sense either. Your genes code for the proteins in your body they don't magically release conscious information into your brain. I think your grossly misinterpreting the role of DNA in the body.
I am sorry but no one is forming a coherent theory about these experiences.
Why is the Buddhist point of view valid? LOL! Valid for what? Discussion? C'mon Burnt!
Quantum mechanics shows that consciousness affects the behavior of physical matter by just the simple act of observing it. So, there is some truth that the mind and matter are related in some strange way. I don't think LLB was trying to say that the mind governs matter. Obviously, it doesn't govern matter. However, he was suggesting that matter and mind are of the same 'field'. Whatever 'field' is.
The DMT experience is pretty suggestive that consciousness is nonlocal and nontemporal. LOL... but just suggestive and that doesn't mean much.
I do agree that people are blabbering about DMT programming and DNA. =P Even though I do see some kind of possibility that these DMT spaces are something that are constructed. The DMT does take you to a specific 'mind field.' The mind field is the same place that everyone who smokes DMT experiences. And god knows we don't have the slightest clue as to what this experience is...
After the white man discovered mushrooms from the small groups who were using it in Oaxaca, Mexico. Maria Sabina said that the mushroom had changed. She said that the mushrooms no longer spoke her indigenous language but became westernized. She lost her ability to use it to heal. I think that an argument can be made that the users of psychedelics and their experiences impact the space that that drug tunes you into. Sort of like a big wall mural where everyone can leave their mark.
Quantum mechanics shows that consciousness affects the behavior of physical matter by just the simple act of observing it. So, there is some truth that the mind and matter are related in some strange way. I don't think LLB was trying to say that the mind governs matter. Obviously, it doesn't govern matter. However, he was suggesting that matter and mind are of the same 'field'. Whatever 'field' is.
The DMT experience is pretty suggestive that consciousness is nonlocal and nontemporal. LOL... but just suggestive and that doesn't mean much.
I do agree that people are blabbering about DMT programming and DNA. =P Even though I do see some kind of possibility that these DMT spaces are something that are constructed. The DMT does take you to a specific 'mind field.' The mind field is the same place that everyone who smokes DMT experiences. And god knows we don't have the slightest clue as to what this experience is...
After the white man discovered mushrooms from the small groups who were using it in Oaxaca, Mexico. Maria Sabina said that the mushroom had changed. She said that the mushrooms no longer spoke her indigenous language but became westernized. She lost her ability to use it to heal. I think that an argument can be made that the users of psychedelics and their experiences impact the space that that drug tunes you into. Sort of like a big wall mural where everyone can leave their mark.
This is also to say that mushrooms share the same foreign policy as the USA. LOL, be friends with whoever is most convenient and useful to push forward your agenda... and leave those who don't in the dust. Mushroom, you are a betraying whore!
carruthers
Rising Star
Regarding dmt as the key to unlocking genetic programs. I was not implying that dmt directly influences gene expression, but rather it interacts with the incredibly complex neurological system of the brain which is itself formed according to genetic blueprints combined with environmental influences. It's possible that the system was designed to produce the specific dmt effects in the presence of dmt. Of course there's no evidence for this and it's simpler (and somewhat less interesting) to assume that the effects arise from chance interactions between the systems of the brain and the dmt molecule which mimics an endogenous neurotransmitter.
While wild speculation and ancient religious worldviews provide for interesting conversation, it's much more difficult to come up with an idea that can stand up to basic skepticism.
While wild speculation and ancient religious worldviews provide for interesting conversation, it's much more difficult to come up with an idea that can stand up to basic skepticism.
I just find buddhist explanations of reality old fashioned. They had an experience induced by mental exercising and called it all sorts of things and came up with all sorts of explanations for their experience. All of which were too subjective to be of much value.
Ok hmm well rrr alright. Quantum mechanics is MASSIVELY misunderstood especially in popular science writing. Mind and matter are related. I would argue that mind is made up of matter and energy. Its an accumulation of processing ability and the ability to form memories etc. But to say that mind is someone beyond matter and energy is baseless.
Throwing around the term field doesn't cut it. There are so many people who run around talking about unified fields as if it proves the buddhist interpretation that all is one and that its all one big spirit. Ok but thats a superficial explanation in my opinion. Very superficial and based on old religious notions based on subjective experience of individuals throughout history.
Well of course its constructed in much the same way as the rest of our waking reality is constructed by the actions of our bodies and minds.
It alters your perceptions. There is no single piece of evidence that contradicts the idea that the DMT experience can be explained on the basis that it affects perceptions. Obviously to show how it does this is more complicated but I see no reason why any other explanation is needed. Perception makes everything we see what we see it as. If that changes so much of our normal experience of the world changes. Drastically as all SWIMMERS know.
She also got a lot of backlash from her community for introducing the white man which probably played a big role in her trips. Kind of like when someone has a bad trip future trips could be influenced by it. Or if you had a trama future trips could be influenced by it. I don't think the mushrooms speak they just change the way the mind speaks to itself by altering it.
I don't bring this up to critisize people or make them look foolish. But I think there is so many myths and false information concerning psychedelics out there and for some reason I like to point it out.
Ok hmm well rrr alright. Quantum mechanics is MASSIVELY misunderstood especially in popular science writing. Mind and matter are related. I would argue that mind is made up of matter and energy. Its an accumulation of processing ability and the ability to form memories etc. But to say that mind is someone beyond matter and energy is baseless.
Throwing around the term field doesn't cut it. There are so many people who run around talking about unified fields as if it proves the buddhist interpretation that all is one and that its all one big spirit. Ok but thats a superficial explanation in my opinion. Very superficial and based on old religious notions based on subjective experience of individuals throughout history.
Well of course its constructed in much the same way as the rest of our waking reality is constructed by the actions of our bodies and minds.
It alters your perceptions. There is no single piece of evidence that contradicts the idea that the DMT experience can be explained on the basis that it affects perceptions. Obviously to show how it does this is more complicated but I see no reason why any other explanation is needed. Perception makes everything we see what we see it as. If that changes so much of our normal experience of the world changes. Drastically as all SWIMMERS know.
She also got a lot of backlash from her community for introducing the white man which probably played a big role in her trips. Kind of like when someone has a bad trip future trips could be influenced by it. Or if you had a trama future trips could be influenced by it. I don't think the mushrooms speak they just change the way the mind speaks to itself by altering it.
I don't bring this up to critisize people or make them look foolish. But I think there is so many myths and false information concerning psychedelics out there and for some reason I like to point it out.
Well dmt exposure has been shown to regulate the expression levels of certain seretonin receptors so it does influence gene expression. My point was that by influencing gene expression doesn't mean it can unlock secret information about the universe from some other dimension.
Really all I am saying in often a lot of words and a lot of posts is that.:arrow: The typical DMT experience/trip happens when DMT levels reach higher then average levels in your body and central nervous system causing an alteration in the way your brain is working thus altering perception thus making things happen that normally would never happen and causing us to gaze awe struck and ask what was that?
deedle-doo
Rising Star
Lets actually talk about the brain for a minute before we give up on it. I'm no brain expert but I have an avid amature interest in brains and I don't see how it's impossible. Here's a few theories:
Our brains are modular composites of parallel processing units. Two really important units are the thalamus and the cortex. Sensory information from the environment is brought into the thalamus and processed, mixed with motor information and memory and sent to the cortex where awareness likely resides. Everything is mapped in parallel, so there are visual bits of the thalamus that project to visual parts of the cortex and auditory thalamus to auditory cortex et cetera. There are even really specialized mappings with corticothalamic feedback loops for written language or spoken language.
This constant, exquisitely balanced feedback between the cortex and the thalamus is mediated by serotonin signaling. Most of the actual communication between these modules relies on glutamate but the feedback is balanced by serotonin.
Psychedelics like psilocin and LSD are known to directly muck up cortico-thalamic feedback by interacting with serotinin receptors. If you change these molecules so that they no longer bind serotonin receptors they are no longer active.
Acute high doses like easily achieved with vaporized DMT may almost abolish normal feedback loops in the brain. I think under these states the visual cortex receives unfiltered information from all over the brain, even other parts of the visual cortex! TMKs hypothesis that you can see your sense of syntax may have a lot of truth.
Abstract 4 and 5 dimensional geometry is totally consistent with unregulated intercortical feedback within the visual cortex. Loops nucleate slow and play out rapidly with almost no dampening mechanism at play. Similar feedback loops are apparent in high dose psilocin visuals but are more dampened and can even be brought under the control of consciousness, to a certain extent.
Realistic visions of people and places with eyes closed may be spurious input from the hippocampus. Abstract symbols may be the language parts of the cortex firing on it's own or maybe it's receiving input from the auditory thalamus. Visuals cause extreme activation of the hypothalamus and are so infused with emotion.
Feebdack blown away and crosstalk takes over. it is not hard to imagine the mechanisms that might be at play. It takes a little work to learn about the brain but it is rewarding. makes trips better, less scary in a way.
Think about it: would you rather be kidnapped and probed by an inexplicable alien intelligence from dimension X or would you rather expose your visual cortex to direct unfiltered information from the core emotional parts of your ancient lizard brain? Both are difficult experiences but the latter may be much easier to integrate.
Our brains are modular composites of parallel processing units. Two really important units are the thalamus and the cortex. Sensory information from the environment is brought into the thalamus and processed, mixed with motor information and memory and sent to the cortex where awareness likely resides. Everything is mapped in parallel, so there are visual bits of the thalamus that project to visual parts of the cortex and auditory thalamus to auditory cortex et cetera. There are even really specialized mappings with corticothalamic feedback loops for written language or spoken language.
This constant, exquisitely balanced feedback between the cortex and the thalamus is mediated by serotonin signaling. Most of the actual communication between these modules relies on glutamate but the feedback is balanced by serotonin.
Psychedelics like psilocin and LSD are known to directly muck up cortico-thalamic feedback by interacting with serotinin receptors. If you change these molecules so that they no longer bind serotonin receptors they are no longer active.
Acute high doses like easily achieved with vaporized DMT may almost abolish normal feedback loops in the brain. I think under these states the visual cortex receives unfiltered information from all over the brain, even other parts of the visual cortex! TMKs hypothesis that you can see your sense of syntax may have a lot of truth.
Abstract 4 and 5 dimensional geometry is totally consistent with unregulated intercortical feedback within the visual cortex. Loops nucleate slow and play out rapidly with almost no dampening mechanism at play. Similar feedback loops are apparent in high dose psilocin visuals but are more dampened and can even be brought under the control of consciousness, to a certain extent.
Realistic visions of people and places with eyes closed may be spurious input from the hippocampus. Abstract symbols may be the language parts of the cortex firing on it's own or maybe it's receiving input from the auditory thalamus. Visuals cause extreme activation of the hypothalamus and are so infused with emotion.
Feebdack blown away and crosstalk takes over. it is not hard to imagine the mechanisms that might be at play. It takes a little work to learn about the brain but it is rewarding. makes trips better, less scary in a way.
Think about it: would you rather be kidnapped and probed by an inexplicable alien intelligence from dimension X or would you rather expose your visual cortex to direct unfiltered information from the core emotional parts of your ancient lizard brain? Both are difficult experiences but the latter may be much easier to integrate.
deedle-doo
Rising Star
olderROM said:
You've been misinformed.
Think about it this way: You set up your double slit experiment and then go home. The experiment will still behave the same even if there is no conscious observer.
im not sure you really understand buddhist cosmology honestly... its as imperical of a study of the sicenc eof conciousness as you can get and they have repeatable experiments ending with the same results consitently... any way.. i dont want to argue with you... but that buddhism was just an analogy... what i was speaking more of is DeQuincys radical panpsychism...
in radical panpsychism matter and mind are one... though this wikipedia is terrible... you might read his book..
en.wikipedia.org
also buddhism just has modles of relaity they arent dumb enogh to confuse a modle for reality for the real thing bro...
another thing is what kind of evidince do you think you need?
i for one have many experiences that are repeatable and shared with others over and over again... what those experiences are well as soon as you seem to think you have an answer it just creates more questions...
theres more to life though then just Proof and empirical data, and even rational thought... lol... belief, faith, and the irrational also have a purpose in this world... i try not to explain away the mystery...
in radical panpsychism matter and mind are one... though this wikipedia is terrible... you might read his book..
Panpsychism - Wikipedia
also buddhism just has modles of relaity they arent dumb enogh to confuse a modle for reality for the real thing bro...
another thing is what kind of evidince do you think you need?
i for one have many experiences that are repeatable and shared with others over and over again... what those experiences are well as soon as you seem to think you have an answer it just creates more questions...
theres more to life though then just Proof and empirical data, and even rational thought... lol... belief, faith, and the irrational also have a purpose in this world... i try not to explain away the mystery...
"Mind and matter are related. I would argue that mind is made up of matter and energy. Its an accumulation of processing ability and the ability to form memories etc. But to say that mind is someone beyond matter and energy is baseless."
besides thats kinda the way i think of it...
which you might have been able to talk to me about instead of just bashing everyone thoughts and making your own seem superior... which is what your response felt like... regardless i think i would rather not talk with you on this subject at all...
pax
besides thats kinda the way i think of it...
which you might have been able to talk to me about instead of just bashing everyone thoughts and making your own seem superior... which is what your response felt like... regardless i think i would rather not talk with you on this subject at all...
pax
^^I don't understand why everyone gets insulted by what I say. It has nothing to do with sounding superior, I freely admit I don't know everything, at all. I can't explain the dmt experience of exactly why dmt entities appear. I just happen feel that most spiritual explanations of the dmt experience are baseless. As are all spiritual explanations of virtually any phenomenon. Maybe I am fed up with religion and its nonsense and take it out too much on peoples spiritual notions about psychedelic drugs but I also feel that spreading misinformation about these substances and there supposed spiritual nature is kind of counter productive. I don't feel I should have to apologize for somehow insulting peoples spiritual beliefs by merely asking for explanations behind rather radical claims they tend to make concerning dmt and their spiritual belief. It seems like this discussion always ends at the point where peoples spiritual beliefs get insulted because I give up on it at that point but that's usually when it gets interesting.
Thanks deedle you summarize things very well.
Thanks deedle you summarize things very well.
deedle-doo
Rising Star
Seriously though, these are complex things. There is no risk of any of us explaining anything away even if we do try to understand it deeper then our ancestors.
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