They're Watching

[thethinice]

So many chemicals are on the DEAs watched chemical list... including ammonia and sodium.
These sort of forums are prominent and known...
Does anyone else get the feeling they're being watched?

No, but really, what is the actual risk of frequenting such forums and purchasing chemicals for home chemistry?

I love chemistry and the chemistry I practice is not illicit. However, I love these forums and many chemicals I would use in extractions and purifications are listed on the DEAs controlled chemicals list, like acetone, benzaldehyde, acetate anhydride etc. So by the use of these forums and the potential purchase of watch-list chemicals, am I on some list somewhere? :surprised

 

[a1pha]

So by the use of these forums and the potential purchase of watch-list chemicals, am I on some list somewhere? :surprised

1. The idea of being put 'on a list' is not currently relevant. This is a practice which dates back pre-9/11. A better way to think of the current system is a relational model combined with association mapping (see XKeyscore). Everyone is on 'The List'... the interesting data is how entries on the list (database) interact with one other.

2. Watched chemicals are just that - Watched. If you have no legit business with them (extracting Schedule I drugs is not legit) then the associations will be flagged. If the flags are big enough you bet some tip will be given to your local authorities to investigate.

3. If you wish to continue down this road then simply look for a career which allows legit use of the chemicals you desire. For example, start researching opportunities in chemistry or related fields. One day your use and possession of watched chemicals will be flagged as legitimate. Just don't get caught doing illegal activities.

4. Frequenting this site is added to the association map. All sites that you visit are tied to this map. It creates a big picture of who you 'are' and your interests. As long as you keep things hypothetical, don't discuss buying/selling (of drugs or watched chemicals), and don't meet folks you should be fine. Of course using a VPN (not Tor!) and other general best practices online is a good move, but unnecessary imo.

 

[nexalizer]

In your opinion, what's the problem with Tor?

 

[a1pha]

In your opinion, what's the problem with Tor?

1. Tor traffic creates a unique signature which is, these days, a big red flag in and of itself. Many businesses and regular folks use VPNs all the time thus the traffic raises no red flags. (Have you been following the Ulbrict case for example?)

2. Nodes/relays are known to be compromised.

3. The software (browser bundle) was comprised.

There are ways to utilize Tor as part of an overall anonymous setup (say, layering traffic VPN > Tor > Jondo) but the use of Tor alone is not wise, imo.

 

[RAM]

In regard to the OP's question, yes you probably are on some list. I'm assuming you live in the US because you are worried about the DEA. I have a story from a friend which you might find interesting.

My friend's cousin was trying to be an EMT worker, but she had a weird "red flag" next to her name somehow that prevented her from getting her license. She had to go get it revoked from some public office, and she inquired as to why it was there. It turned out that her great-grandfather was a Communist who frequently spoke at community events in support of worker rights, so everyone related to him had a red flag of some sort. This was only about 7 or 8 years ago too!!

While I haven't heard many similar stories, I think it is safe to assume that we are all on some sort of list especially with all of the recent NSA revelations and what not. But the real question is if we should even care.

You might find this video of use:

In it, popular philosopher Slavoj Zizek discusses how we are all probably being watched, but how he doesn't care at all about it. If you care when there is really no credible threat, then you are just worrying yourself (and worse, possible modifying your own actions) because of some made-up ideology.

Your worry should be about enforcement and true stories of people actually getting "raided" for just doing some internet searches and having a few harmless chemicals. The truth is that the more you worry about being watched, the more power they have. If you ignore them and continue on with your life with no concern about being apprehended for exercising your basic rights, the power gets transferred back to you.

 

[tydel24]

concern should be increased in things that are actually in your control, surrounding, setting, friends, family, safety, for some reason online filtering and raiding does not concern me, but then again that's not in my control, be aware, be paranoid, this isn't baking a cake, i think too many things are done the wrong way in the wrong place, if i insisted on doing this, you should always expect a knock on the door, and always assume the worst. so get 2 steps ahead of everyone, and don't just leave your icing and batter laying around.
what kinda test is required to confirm its the molecule, everything may be under certain circumstances, but keep those who know and know you close. dont underestimate them, im sure that in most cases where you hear about a bust, its really someone in there circle who had run there mouth very well to the wrong people, and not always investigation. trust me

 

[Icon]

In the context of home extraction I think it's probably not a very high risk of being flagged. Who cares if you go to home depot and pick up a canister of acetone? Just pay cash and there's no record of it. They're not watching the tapes doing face recognition of everyone buying something and matching it to their activity...

But if you were ordering like entire drums of chemicals or pallets of stuff... that'd be more sketchy if you have no legitimate purpose.

If you can't find something locally, you may be putting yourself in more risk by ordering it online. I think most labs and chemical supply companies prohibit selling to individuals and would become suspicious at the mere inquiry of sourcing chemicals from them.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

In the context of home extraction I think it's probably not a very high risk of being flagged. Who cares if you go to home depot and pick up a canister of acetone? Just pay cash and there's no record of it. They're not watching the tapes doing face recognition of everyone buying something and matching it to their activity...

But if you were ordering like entire drums of chemicals or pallets of stuff... that'd be more sketchy if you have no legitimate purpose.

If you can't find something locally, you may be putting yourself in more risk by ordering it online. I think most labs and chemical supply companies prohibit selling to individuals and would become suspicious at the mere inquiry of sourcing chemicals from them.

Agreed. There's really no reason to order anything, unless you're into some advanced type of stuff. Find out where the professional painters in your area get their paint, pay cash and you'll be set. If one's really worried, I suppose one could dress in painter's whites. 8)

 

[thethinice]

Very good points being made! The illegality of most psychedelics is really against human rights. A country where people can't methylate their tryptamines is not very free at all... but I digress...

I have a lot of interest in the extraction of flavorful, aromatic and bioactive amines from many natural sources. Many of the chemical processes applied to psychedelics often apply to such amines. I'm especially interested in piperine, mostly because it has a characteristic orange color, and can be crystallized in other colors as well, which I think is super cool.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I always feel like
Somebody's watching me
And I have no privacy

Want to See Domestic Spying’s Future? Follow the Drug War

 

[thethinice]

Late reply, but I've recently done a little basic research on Tor because the debate interested me. I've come to a very basic (and perhaps incorrect) understanding that Tor essentially uses the computers in it's system to obscure what computer is requesting certain data. Kinda like taking three quick lefts to get away from the cops in a car (a doubleback). So if that is true, then isn't the system as a whole a big red flag, but the individual users cannot be flagged directly for their actions?