Time frames for smoking, and tolerance

[Rollenberg]

Have none of you read any of the literature floating around the net? Mckenna talks about it taking about an hour between experiences, so does strassman in his book, I know I have heard it from other places as well, I believe maybe in the DMT guidebook which I downloaded from the NExus.

But forget the sources, When I smoke Spice, pure spice, not changa, It is impossible to get any effect if I smoke then wait 5 minutes and smoke again, I can keep smoking more and more, with still no effect. But if I wait close to an hour, then I blast just as far, if not farther than I did before.

I really thought this was the normal understanding of DMT, I have really been shown something different today.

 

[gibran2]

Have none of you read any of the literature floating around the net? Mckenna talks about it taking about an hour between experiences, so does strassman in his book, I know I have heard it from other places as well, I believe maybe in the DMT guidebook which I downloaded from the NExus.

But forget the sources, When I smoke Spice, pure spice, not changa, It is impossible to get any effect if I smoke then wait 5 minutes and smoke again, I can keep smoking more and more, with still no effect. But if I wait close to an hour, then I blast just as far, if not farther than I did before.

I really thought this was the normal understanding of DMT, I have really been shown something different today.

Here are some quotes from DMT: The Spirit Molecule -

“After two months of trial and error, I determined that the best regime was four injections of 0.3 mg/kg DMT given at 30-minute intervals. This dose, while highly psychedelic, was just below our highest, 0.4 mg/kg.” – p. 138

“This study showed that there was no tolerance to the psychological effects of repeated DMT injections. The experience was as intensely psychedelic the fourth time as it was the first.” – p. 138

My personal experience has been that what I believed early on to be tolerance was in fact just bad smoking technique. Prior to getting my GVG, I often had trouble breaking through – it was very hit-or-miss. With repeated use, my smoking device accumulated lots of condensed liquid DMT, reducing the efficiency with each subsequent use. However, if I waited long enough for the condensed liquid to solidify, then the efficiency improved. (This is all in hindsight – at the time I thought that there must be some sort of tolerance.) Since getting the GVG, I’ve never had that problem again (now the only “problem” is too-intense experiences!)

So if you’re feeling “tolerance”, you might want to consider changing your smoking device, your technique, or both.

 

[corpus callosum]

I'm with Gammagore and Gibran2 on this-40mg in one breath and the concept of tolerance becomes irrelevant as that kind of trip has me satisfied for several weeks.

I think vaporisation technique is key here and I have never found there to be any tolerance when vaporising in quick succession.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Have none of you read any of the literature floating around the net? Mckenna talks about it taking about an hour between experiences, so does strassman in his book, I know I have heard it from other places as well, I believe maybe in the DMT guidebook which I downloaded from the NExus...I really thought this was the normal understanding of DMT, I have really been shown something different today.

Have you not read the actual scientific study on this very subject? Legitimate scientific studies hold more weight than internet hearsay, even if it is from generally reputable sources such as the Nexus or Mckenna. Until someone produces evidence to the contrary, all indications point to DMT creating no tolerance to itself.

 

[redlightsflash]

I'm both surprised and not surprised that this topic became widely debated very quickly.....

Anyway I got a scale. And a torch lighter. Scale showed I was smoking 15-20mg on previous attempts most likely, with 20 being a definite upper limit.

Torch lighter has made things 5 times easier, heating without inhaling, saving breath, saving spice, etc etc.... I am using more now and getting better results, but nothing I would say is "vivid" in 25-30mg range (faint CEVs mainly and it has to be dark in the room).

It's partially smoking tek. But honestly its really tough sometimes to hold the hit, I think if I had a bigger pipe it might help so I get more oxygen with each hit instead of a massive dense cloud of spice vapor. How do you guys make sure you get it in one hit without coughing?

The other problem is I can't really do anything about controlling what vaporizes. It all vaporizes at once, so if I cough, not only do I lose the smoke in my lungs but I lose what's actively vaporizing and floating out of the bowl into the air.

I'm looking into pharma before I try smoking anymore, if I am one of the lucky guys that only needs 50-100mg for pharma I think I'll stick to that for awhile. I do want to get a breakthrough but first I'm interested in at least getting the visuals, and it would also be great to start with a more grounded experience as I hear is generally the case when doing pharma or at least MAOIs with spice.

========

Still not sure about the tolerance thing, I guess I'll go with the literature. It does seem really odd that the body doesn't become tolerant to it though....

 

[gibran2]

...It's partially smoking tek. But honestly its really tough sometimes to hold the hit, I think if I had a bigger pipe it might help so I get more oxygen with each hit instead of a massive dense cloud of spice vapor. How do you guys make sure you get it in one hit without coughing?

The other problem is I can't really do anything about controlling what vaporizes. It all vaporizes at once, so if I cough, not only do I lose the smoke in my lungs but I lose what's actively vaporizing and floating out of the bowl into the air.

The goal is actually to get a single hit of very dense vapor. If you dilute the vapor with air, then it will be very hard to get it all in one hit (too much volume). If the vapor is causing you to cough, then you might be burning your spice. I’m very sensitive to burnt spice, and the slightest bit will cause intense irritation. Get a GVG!

The vapor will tend to vaporize all at once. This is a good thing. It ensures that you get a very dense dose in a very short time interval.

If you feel oxygen deprived during your inhalation and/or holding, take a few deep breaths before you start to inhale. This will keep you comfortably oxygenated during the inhale/hold.

 

[Ice House]

very[/u] dense vapor. If you dilute the vapor with air, then it will be very hard to get it all in one hit (too much volume). If the vapor is causing you to cough, then you might be burning your spice. I’m very sensitive to burnt spice, and the slightest bit will cause intense irritation. Get a GVG!

The vapor will tend to vaporize all at once. This is a good thing. It ensures that you get a very dense dose in a very short time interval.

If you feel oxygen deprived during your inhalation and/or holding, take a few deep breaths before you start to inhale. This will keep you comfortably oxygenated during the inhale/hold.

This is very well explained. I must agree with most on here that technique is most likely problem for the OP. I have no problems blasting of 10-20 times over the course of a weekend. I need only a minute or five to regain my composure and I am capable of going immediately.

Yes technique is paramount.

Well said gibran2, vapor density

I find that a Bong Load of Changa works well. One toke, thats all it takes every time, wether its 5 minutes between tokes or 5 days.

Yes Technique is paramount.

 

[redlightsflash]

edit: this is kinda off topic, but I figured I would report the improved results.

Well it seems you guys are def correct on a couple things....

Gibran - right about the burnt spice being irritating, cause just now I vaped 25mg and did it even better than last time - it was not harsh at all or hard to hold in this time. I didn't even have to try to keep it in, absolutely zero urge to cough. I used the absolute minimum amount of heat possible and it was very smooth going in.

I got much stronger results this time, better than 30mg the other night, even pretty decent OEVs in daylight. Everything became bright, fractals everywhere, though the fractals themselves were somewhat dim. Probably would have been pretty nice at night. I had a bit of momentary anxiety because I wasn't prepared for a breakthrough and just did this on a whim... well, won't be doing that next time lol.

Technique does seem incredibly important, it's easily making a big difference in my results.

 

[Rivea]

I thought it was also fairly common knowledge that you need to wait about an hour between smoking sessions to be able to obtain any satisfactory effect from the spice.

...there absolutely is a temporary tollerance which goes away as you aproach an hour from blast off.

Sources please...I'll show you mine if you show me yours...

The currently accepted scientific literature shows no evidence of tolerance. That trumps subjective experience any day in my book

A few weeks ago I read DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman. His DMT study showed that no tolerance develops even with administration of DMT Fumarate at a high dose at 30 minute intervals 4 times in one day. People reported that they entered hyperspace deeply seeing and communicating with entities during all 4 doses even the last. Read the book... It has many interesting trip logs.

I have been smoking with a GVG. I take a few slight puffs to preheat the pipe, the bowl, and the spice basically drawing no vapor into the lungs. Once I see the slightest smoke enter the stem of the pipe I take a few deep breaths and exhale emptying my lungs completely. Then I apply the torch lighter to the pipe and begin to slowly draw the dense vapor which forms immediately until I can no longer inhale. I can take 35 mg of spice in one inhalation (as I did tonight) in this way and the launch is sudden and forceful.

My helper said that clear air was moving through the pipe at the end of my hit. I leaned back into the sofa, she took the pipe from me, and I held it in for as long as possible (about 20 seconds). BOOM... as I am exhaling my big screen computer display turns into a mosaic of Aztec like block forms and the room almost completely disappears. It was so deep that I have a hard time describing and remembering the next 2 minutes of the journey. My only problem with technique is that I forget to close my eyes. I think that whatever I still see inside the room interferes with the journey, but it is truly amazing no matter what.

About 30 minutes later my helper toked the pipe in the same way, but she had a cough and could not take it all. She still launched but not as far as she had hoped. I grabbed the pipe from her and took the remainder of the hit. I would guess that she only got about 20 mg of the hit and I got the remaining 15 mg. BOOM... there I went again but not completely. However I did force myself to close my eyes and I had truly entered another world with strange brilliant lighting and shadows, little micro cobalt blue, purple, and reddish cubes spinning around in front of me not far away. All too soon I started coming back, and I opened my eyes. It seems that I had not developed a tolerance to it after taking a hit 30 minutes after the first even though the second was less than half quantity of the first.

The afterglow for us both was awesome as it always is.