Times are Changing

[Wax]

And so are the drugs.

I have been toying around with a thought lately and I would like to hear all of your thoughts on it.The LSD boom coincided very nicely with internet and computer technology advances, maybe a little too nicely. There are many stories about how these two separate events linked up so perfectly and may in fact have not been that separate at all.

LSD gives that high speed brain boost with mathematically perfect geometric visions beyond anything we could conceive, more like something a computer would make up from thousands and thousands of complex equations. DMT on the other hand is different, the visions are of organic alien machinery, transforming and appearing to be conscious themselves.

Now we see this huge explosion in DMT and ayahuasca in the western world, is there something on the horizon? Is there a technological advancement ready to emerge in the wake of all this experimentation? I'm not discounting the whole personal and spiritual aspect to these substances, but I can also envision organic technology popping up, a living machine taking data from it's surroundings and carrying out a task perfected for it's environment.

What say you?

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

I've read a lot of great stories of technological pioneers crediting some discoveries to LSD. Steve jobs though I resent him for not writing Albert Hoffman back when he wrote a letter to him asking to donate to research, openly stated that lsd gave him insight into the tech advances he made. One thing that has been heavily on my mind is the mars rover set to land, and the space program in general. I think your definitely thinking on track friend. Know any stories of anyone in the space program dosing?

 

[Ice House]

I feel it.

I agree.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

i tend to lean towards bashar's predictions. but i try not take these things with too much salt

 

[No Knowing]

Technology that is as smart or smarter?! than us could be on the horizon for sure. Once computers were created that were self-aware and 1% more intelligent than humans these techs would snowball until they were ahead of our own organic evolution.(Lets hope they are friendly)

Damn your predictions really got me thinking. Fusion of organics and technology? I guess we will have to wait and see...

 

[pau]

Know any stories of anyone in the space program dosing?

I'm guessing the flipside of this question is even more interesting: in what branch of government is anyone NOT dosing?

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

Theres actually some sort of international treaty against making A.I. that intelligent. Let's hope we don't go out Terminator style.

 

[Wax]

The organic machinery I envision is nothing like the ordinary A.I. which scares the shit out of me.

It is more of a synergy between biology and technology, a humble but intelligent creature that knows it's place in the ecosystem and is bent on world perfection. I imagine a fungus or mold type organism, one that is connected to the root of the earth and is content to live and let live, to die at the will of the mother and play it's part in co-existance.

 

[damon]

Sometimes I feel like technology is still not quite as fast as human thought. Digital organic interfaces will change all that, allowing humans to be much more productive. Imagine being able to write code, or anything, without having to type or use a mouse, or your hands at all. I'm talking about an interface between the computer and human thoughts, allowing the computer to respond as fast as one could think. I could imagine being able to do all of my daily duties in an hour or so, if only I could do it with less translation (coding). But we know how that works, we will still be required to put in the hours. I do think computers will one day out-pace human abilities, without humans at all, but first we will need to unlock the human potential. And then once we figure out the human interface, we can work on interfaces to other forms of life, and I believe that would be extremely interesting.

 

[r2pi]

We have no clue what consciousness is or what its physical basis is. So, technology along those lines is a hell of a long way off.

(The first part of the above is why psychedelics fascinate me and is why they should be -- and as hinted above, are -- at the forefront of human progress unto understandinf ourselves and the world we create/inhabit. Mullis and Crick might be among the most important examples of that.)

As for coincidences in time, do not forget that LSD was discovered around the same time as nuclear weapons.

As for DMT... it will be interesting, for sure. I must admit I have my doubts. (Personally I've given up on Western society ... its fate seems beyond redemption. )

 

[anrchy]

The organic machinery I envision is nothing like the ordinary A.I. which scares the shit out of me.

It is more of a synergy between biology and technology, a humble but intelligent creature that knows it's place in the ecosystem and is bent on world perfection. I imagine a fungus or mold type organism, one that is connected to the root of the earth and is content to live and let live, to die at the will of the mother and play it's part in co-existance.

I think what you speak of, biological technology, is US. Have you seen transcendant man? If not I URGE you to seek it out. Awesome Documentary. We are already merging technology with biology in our bodies and have been for decades. Eventually we will have machines inside, that will dispense whatever chemical it is we want/need. Imagine DMT at the push of a button, or painkillers, or nutrients.

Imagine nanotechnology capable of producing oxygen in your blood so you can hold your breathe for 4 hours underwater, or run a mile on a single breathe.

 

[Bud Shizzler]

Fundamental Societal Change in a fairly short amount of time happened before, so lets not doubt the possibility of a real CHANGE to come. Its important not to solely pray for a better time, shout the ideas out loud. We do have an Enemy, Reactionary Forces of any kind, Fascism! Those two we see everyday in little manifestations, on others and ourself and its very important to identify, ideally overcome them! When you talk to friends and Family, sow the seed, every human being is every other one. Human Dignity is not guaranteed for most People on earth now and that has to changes.

Hopefully the third Millenium will bring a time of love, altruism. The final death of narcistic ego. It's sure that there will always be bad people, but Zeitgeist or Common Sense is mighty, and it is on our side, clearly. By us i mean socially tolerant people. Just look at how culture brought us nearer to that goal concerning MMJ or gay marriage. That wheel can not be turned back (whilst enormous forces try to) imo.

Our current state of mind perfectly reflects the Rule "Divide and Conquer!". Destroy the Opponent to a) survive and/or b) progress at the expense of said opponent. For everyone that grew up in western society its simply no longer necessary! We do not need all that anymore. We don't want happiness just for ourselves. We could push ourselves over all boundaries that exist today. So, IDENTIFY who runs the current (Money)System and think of a way to sabotize it. Oh my, whoever sais Jews is to be executed at point! No, our enemy as a society is money and IMF, World Bank, G8, Intelligence Services, The big global Players in Buisness.

So our lesson is to ever unite as humans who just want a happy life for themselves and their children. We are Millions, whilst there are only a handful profiteers of the current system. So open peoples eyes to that and fight or wait patiently for change :thumb_up:

 

[Wax]

Anrchy, I have looked into the transcendent man but never had the opportunity to watch it, it looks great though. Although I seem to remember some criticizing Kurzweil as being a nut for it. I'd still like to see it. I get where you are coming from with us being this technology, we would of course have to overcome great a great hurdle to accept our place in nature -ego, but that all kind of fits in with DMT being a catalyst for this change....thought provoking.

Bud, thank you. I have been tearing my hair out recently arguing with others about the very issues you speak of. That post couldn't have come at a better time for me Spot on!

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

Just imagine what kinds of psychedelics extra terrestrials have access to! :shock:

 

[Wax]

Just imagine what their research chemicals are called...

 

[No Knowing]

Haha reminds me of the book The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch by P.K. Dick...Where a tycoon takes a trip to a nearby star system, makes contact with the aliens there, and ends up bringing back their equivalent of tobacco to earth. But, the drug's effect on humans is plunging them into the unbridled imagination for an infinite amount of subjective time although in earth time it only lasts 1 second. :shock:

DMT always reminded me of this book.

 

[Global]

LSD gives that high speed brain boost with mathematically perfect geometric visions beyond anything we could conceive, more like something a computer would make up from thousands and thousands of complex equations. DMT on the other hand is different, the visions are of organic alien machinery, transforming and appearing to be conscious themselves.

I was actually just noting the opposite the other day. The vision I was having was something that seemed like it would be rendered in a 3 dimensional representation on a computer. The precision and angles through which this entity was moving was just so CGI-like it was incredible. But then again, I guess that's the thing about DMT is that some days it could be organic alien stuff, another day it could be very computeresque, and then the next day it could be the insides of a doll house. You never know what you're gonna get.

 

[obliguhl]

Just imagine what their research chemicals are called...

Humans.

 

[Guyomech]

I have felt for a long time that we are destined, soon, to have communications and networking technology that we operate directly with the mind. Basically, the ability for us to think messages to each other in realtime. If you look at the curve of technological advancement, starting with the earliest language to the printing press to the Internet to all the instant networking ware... We can't get enough of this stuff. Communicating is apparently one of the things that humans care about the most, as such a huge part of our tech advancement is going there. Even sub Saharan dirt farmers have cell phones. The tech is ubiquitous, and advancing rapidly.

So the endpoint I envision for this would be one where our technology becomes invisible. Rather than carrying around a mobile device, you would simply have your suite of subscriptions, and would have continuous access wherever you go. This would be facilitated through the use of implants or even subtler technology... But the end result is one where we totally take our tech for granted, in the same sense that we now take our ability to open our eyes and see for granted. It would only take a generation for us to totally assimilate these changes- look how quickly we have adapted to phones and computers.

Imagine how quickly a group could solve a tricky problem in a direct-thought tech environment! The downside: no more privacy.

This forum is a slow, clumsy version of what I'm talking about.

The processes that bring these changes about include market forces, social forces, and other large intangible aspects of human mass interaction. But at the core of this all are individuals figuring out specific vexing parts of the puzzle, and some of these key people are psychedelic users. I think that LSD in particular is a great tool because (as stated above) its ability to help visualize precise mathematical phenomena. But that 6 hour window is a big part of it, along with the fact that a person on acid can conceivably take notes, draw, operate a computer, etc. DMT takes you deeper but it's harder to work with it in such a specific, intentional manner. For this reason, LSD may remain the top operational psychedelic tool for tech innovators, while DMT can help facilitate the big intuitive leaps that LSD is not sufficiently powerful for.

As far as the different substances engendering different styles of tech- that's an interesting thought, but realistically these tech advances are really not the result of having a trip session and envisioning some novel new tech from scratch, then coming back down and inventing it. There are so many other factors limiting and guiding our technological advances that psychedelics, rather than defining the style of new tech, act as catalysts for solving the most vexing problems, while the other aforementioned social and market forces really end up deciding the overall direction our new technology takes.

I'd like to believe that DMT users could come up with something so amazing and revolutionary that it could trump all that social inertia. I guess that's up to us.

 

[r2pi]

I have felt for a long time that we are destined, soon, to have communications and networking technology that we operate directly with the mind. Basically, the ability for us to think messages to each other in realtime. ...

Imagine how quickly a group could solve a tricky problem in a direct-thought tech environment! The downside: no more privacy.

Well -- depends what you mean by that. If you still mean deliberately sending a language-based message, just without the need to do this with your voice or your hands, yes I agree it is bound to happen relatively soon... but privacy would not be a problem if the sending of the message is within conscious control.

if you mean something more akin to telepathy, yes I can see a potential privacy issue, but at the same time, I can't agree that this is the imminent consequence of all of our incredible technological growth. After all, through all this, the basic underlying technology for the communication of thought from one mind to another has been the same for tens of thousands of years : language. All of our technology serves simply to greatly expand the possibility for language-based communication.

Having a means of joining of minds that transcends language (as in the thingies in Avatar).. our technology isn't remotely close to doing that, on my view. We are very, very, very far away from understanding the physical correlates of / basis of thought and mind. We may never get there. Consciousness may yet be discovered to transcend matter. (Although that doesn't preclude material linkups that are more sophisticated that symbolic language.)