Tips on extractions: coming back to extracting after over a year

[q21q21]

So I introduced a friend to DMT and he has a curious experience when smoking DMT.
He makes love to the universe. He moans, he groans, he experiences pure ecstasy consistantly on doses of 50-70mg of DMT and he has used up all of my DMT in the last month an a half.

SO I'm back extracting and there are a few things that I did not think of in the first 20 or so extractions I've done that I'd like to note. They kinda seem obvious in retrospect but I didn't think of at all.

1: Doing several small pulls at 5 minute intervals then combining them is much better than just doing a large pull.
From experience I know that even if I put like 800mg of solvent I will not get any more dissolved that 200ml or so.
There is just a diminishing return on pulls of like 40-60% on the first (depending if all DMT is in freebase of course)
then like 15-25% then less and less. This is consistent with pulls of 150ml or >500ml in my experience.
It is explained in this thread (Separating? Why multiple pulls? Lab ware? - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus)

So what you do is use 2-4 small batches and do pulls with each then combine for best results.

2:While starting and extraction can be very exciting and the first few pulls (first few hours) are usually fun and exciting, finishing an extraction can be boring and I have even put it off so long that it accidentally got thrown out twice!

This method will not produce crystals but will produce ready-to-smoke DMT for you and your friends to enjoy!

This is can be done with any solvent and any extraction but is q21q21 tek inspired.
periodically (every morning for a week or every second evening, or whatever) use a relatively large portion of solvent so it is easy to separate without worrying about 1/2 of it being in that tiny 2mm layer and do a pull soaking for 5-10 minutes (or more)
Put the solvent is in a solvent-safe seal-able jar then add about 1/8-1/4 volume of the solvent in vinegar. Shake it around a couple times over 2-3 minutes then separate the vinegar with a turkey baster.
Add 1/4 or so of the volume of the solvent in hot tap water then do the same, 2-3 minutes with some agitation then separate.

So that should take 15 minutes or so with about 5 minutes actual work and you have your day's pull.
(Leave the lid off so the little layer of solvent can evaporate off though if it is d-limonene or xylene it will take a while for all of it, but unlike naptha it shouldn't burn your house down if you evaporate it)

Combine the pulls of several days then when you have some free time then you can evaporate it for nearly PURE DMT goo for herbs/changa (or liquid DMT storage)

When you do this I recommend either first cooking up a nice smelling meal on the stove before it or do this on a hot plate outside cause it will smell STRONGLY of vinegar but not bad or anything.

Before you do it then give it a filter through a coffee filter and maybe separate it again from the tiny layer of solvent on the top.

I have not finished my extraction nor have I weighted or plan to weigh the result but I do know that so far I am getting A LOT of deep red DMT-acetate tincture with a tiny fraction of the work I typically put into it using this method.
I will evaporate then smoke 1 drop, then 2 drops then 3 drops etc for a qualitative dosage and you could do the same (I assume many do) with infused herb/changa



~~~~
So I'm SURE people have tried the first mentioned tip before and maybe the second too. I'm going to add this info to the tek but maybe some feedback would help me either do them better or at least help me as I figure a way to summarize it.

 

[HermeticShaman]

Q21Q21,

First and foremost... Thank you for your contribution! A friend of mine taught me by hand how to use your tek and I only later discovered it was yours once I joined the Nexus. I've been doing Naptha freeze precipitations (which makes beautiful stuff...), and recently decided I'd experiment and try finishing the tek with xylene and a vinegar acid wash, which has resulted in this reddish-brownish goo...

I need to know before I proceed, though -- what's the best way to convert it to freebase for smoking? I read that you mentioned you can carefully cook it on a spoon, but I am wondering: Does this damage the DMT content? How do you know when it's been sufficiently heated/evaporated?

When you have that reddish goo, is it ready to be infused into some leaf, or do I need to convert it to freebase first?

 

[Seraph]

Q21Q21,

First and foremost... Thank you for your contribution! A friend of mine taught me by hand how to use your tek and I only later discovered it was yours once I joined the Nexus. I've been doing Naptha freeze precipitations (which makes beautiful stuff...), and recently decided I'd experiment and try finishing the tek with xylene and a vinegar acid wash, which has resulted in this reddish-brownish goo...

I need to know before I proceed, though -- what's the best way to convert it to freebase for smoking? I read that you mentioned you can carefully cook it on a spoon, but I am wondering: Does this damage the DMT content? How do you know when it's been sufficiently heated/evaporated?

When you have that reddish goo, is it ready to be infused into some leaf, or do I need to convert it to freebase first?

To convert a DMT salt to freebase dissolve it in a solution of water and sodium hydroxide, the pH should be as high as you can get it, if you have pH paper you can check to see if the solution is at pH 14. Once you have done this move your solution with the DMT dissolved in it into a jug and add heated naphtha to the jug, shake the jug for a while, any amount of time over 5 minutes is enough time. Once you have finished shaking it pour the solution into a stainless-steel saucepan, wait for the solution to change into layers and use your method of seperation (turkey baster, syringe etc.) to seperate the naphtha from the water-containing mixture. Evaporate your naphtha to get freebase DMT.

An alternative method only works if you have DMT acetate, put the DMT acetate into a stainless-steel saucepan and heat it up as much as you can but make sure you don't heat it up too much to the point where you evaporate the resulting freebase DMT. After you have heated it for long enough it will be freebase DMT.

 

[HermeticShaman]

...but make sure you don't heat it up too much to the point where you evaporate the resulting freebase DMT. After you have heated it for long enough it will be freebase DMT.

I'm working with acetate right now. The problem is, I don't know at what point it has been heated sufficiently without damaging the DMT content. Is there anything either of you could point out as an indicator that it's been properly freebased?

I have some fumaric acid on the way, so I'll be experimenting with fumarates soon. 'Til then, though, I'm not sure how to deal with acetate properly.

 

[Seraph]

...but make sure you don't heat it up too much to the point where you evaporate the resulting freebase DMT. After you have heated it for long enough it will be freebase DMT.

I'm working with acetate right now. The problem is, I don't know at what point it has been heated sufficiently without damaging the DMT content. Is there anything either of you could point out as an indicator that it's been properly freebased?

I have some fumaric acid on the way, so I'll be experimenting with fumarates soon. 'Til then, though, I'm not sure how to deal with acetate properly.

If there isn't as much of it as you started with it has been freebased because the acetate part of the molecule is about the same size as the dmt part so if you look at your dmt acetate before you start heating it and then after heating it it looks like there is only half of what you started with. If you don't trust being able to look at it and seeing that there is less you could weigh it before you heat it and weigh it after you heat it.
The weight should have decreased by about half of what you started with.

 

[HermeticShaman]

Thanks, Seraph. Those are definitely helpful tips.

 

[ragabr]

Use a double-broiler setup!

 

[jamie]

I made so much changa from just 100g of mimosa with an acetate tek...my changa still smells a bit like vinegar even after a double boiler..the stuff is sooo dense and sticky it is hard to get that smell out..I dunno if there are still some acetates in there but it does not matter..the changa is very very potent so I wouldnt worry too much about getting the conversion perfect..I think remaining acetate would just evap away anyway when you light it and it will be inhaled as freebase..the ammount of acetates that might be left after a double boiler shouldnt be enough to bother your lungs. Mine does not bother me at all..if it does..evap more.

 

[HermeticShaman]

I don't know what you guys mean about double boiler. I'll look over the forum and see about it.

EDIT: Oh... I can see why that would work. Too bad I don't own one. I may just have to invest in one. Messing with this acetate goo has been a monumental pain in the ass compared to the nice, simple crystals I get with naptha pulls/freezes.

 

[q21q21]

You REALLY don't need to worry about damaging the DMT. I've accidentally left it to evaporate straight on a "3" element and while there was a lot of DMT smell there was no smoke and no loss in (subjective) potency.


The method is simple and maybe will help you with the worrying having me advise it.Just evaporate the vinegar used for salting on low ("1" or "2", ~125C) until it begins to dry up (a portion of the bottom of the dish is dry) then remove the dish from heat
Rinse the dish with droppers-full (it will quickly evaporate the water) many times and put the deep-red liquid into a vial. Repeat with dropperfuls "washing" the DMT off the dish until the liquid no longer becomes deep-red but only light red-orange (I often add a bit of vinegar to the last dropperful to be thorough). It is easy, simple and the tincture is very stable for storage.
This DMT-acetate tincture will be like 4-8ml per gram. There's no need to measure the exact concentration in my opinion unless you are doing pharma and it can be done at a much later date. Just evaporate and smoke 1, then 2, then 3 drops, etc to get a subjective dosage then label (8 drops for breakthrough, probably ~40mg) the tek has how to measure the exact concentration.


With the spoon it is really simple. Just evaporate it quickly rocking the liquid around the spoon until it no longer bubbles then just let it sit for 1 min and you're set. During heating I've NEVER seen smoke nor have I lost any (subjective) potency. I'm not sure but I'll conjecture that it does not actually freebase until it turns into smoke, at least the majority of it so if you don't see smoke, you're fine.
DMT-acetate is a really stable compound in my experience and whether there is a little vinegar left or not doesn't really matter much, sometimes the first toke will be a little vinegar-y but it will smoke up and get you to hyperspace just like freebase every time, reliable as the sunrise and sunset

I've said it many times but crystals are pretty but honestly I don't think worth it.

 

[ragabr]

You don't need to buy anything to use a double broiler, if you have a saucepan that will fit inside another saucepan. Or a pyrex dish that will fit inside a saucepan or pot. Here are some basic instructions. I'd never heard about the aluminum foil step, but seems like it's make things a little easier when you're melting your chocolate.

 

[HermeticShaman]

With the spoon it is really simple. Just evaporate it quickly rocking the liquid around the spoon until it no longer bubbles then just let it sit for 1 min and you're set. During heating I've NEVER seen smoke nor have I lost any (subjective) potency. I'm not sure but I'll conjecture that it does not actually freebase until it turns into smoke, at least the majority of it so if you don't see smoke, you're fine.

Unfortunately, I have seen some smoke this way. Or it could be steam, I'm not entirely sure.

Also, once you've heated it up in the spoon, how do you transfer that into your smoking device? It's still resiny, gooey, and hard to handle.

 

[HermeticShaman]

You don't need to buy anything to use a double broiler, if you have a saucepan that will fit inside another saucepan. Or a pyrex dish that will fit inside a saucepan or pot. Here are some basic instructions. I'd never heard about the aluminum foil step, but seems like it's make things a little easier when you're melting your chocolate.

Thanks, ragabr That's pretty handy.

 

[DJ_Truthseek]

Thanks q21q21. Your awesome.

I have used your tek for the fluffy white but haven't tried the jimjam one yet. Why do you think crystal's aren't worth it?

 

[HermeticShaman]

@DJ:

I've been using his tek for white crystals as well (which is awesome), but the deal with other solvents is that they pull out a great deal more alkaloids than naptha... Primarily DMT, but other active alkaloids are present in the bark as well, which is what we are aiming for pulling with these other solvents.

If this technique can be perfected (I'm trying, just having some difficulty), it potentially means making the most out of your bark.

 

[q21q21]

With the spoon it is really simple. Just evaporate it quickly rocking the liquid around the spoon until it no longer bubbles then just let it sit for 1 min and you're set. During heating I've NEVER seen smoke nor have I lost any (subjective) potency. I'm not sure but I'll conjecture that it does not actually freebase until it turns into smoke, at least the majority of it so if you don't see smoke, you're fine.

Unfortunately, I have seen some smoke this way. Or it could be steam, I'm not entirely sure.

Also, once you've heated it up in the spoon, how do you transfer that into your smoking device? It's still resiny, gooey, and hard to handle.

it is very unlikely that it was smoke, DMT is very difficult to vaporize in many ways. In any case just keep everything on low.
And let me note that while initially I used a double boiler, it is only good if you only have like 1/4 inch of liquid, if you have more then it uses WAY WAY more energy than just putting the dish on the element on low.
I used the double boiler because I, like you, was worried about killing the DMT but experience has shown the chemical's stability under everything I have put at it (except concentrated HCl, that killed it actually)

When it is a goo you can deal with it in 2 ways. The first, how me a my friends all do it, is using the copper-mesh ball from "the machine" while you may not have a true "machine" you can just get some copper mesh, burning it thoroughly to get the varnish off then use it to scrape up the stuff and just place the copper in the bowl of your bong, it is super simple.

The seconds way is to use herb. This I've heard of being done with great success in single doses and batches. I've never done it but I suppose you could do it 2 ways:
1: evaporate the vinegar completely first the thoroughly toss the herb around the Dish rubbing and what-not to spread the DMT throughout.
2:Add the herb to the vinegar as it evaporates and it will coat the herb as it evaporates (the dish as well?)

Anyway, I have to keep telling my friends this when they are super stressing out the techinque of evaporating and smoking:
I really just played it by ear and if it made sense it worked, if it didn't, it didn't. Create your own technque and there is a possibility it will be much better than mine

 

[HermeticShaman]

What I'm currently experimenting with is evaporating the vinegar, heating the goo over a spoon, and then dissolving it in about 50 ml of acetone in a glass measuring cup, then adding the herbs in there. It should in theory work just fine, but smoking it will obviously be the ultimate test.

 

[q21q21]

That will most likely work but really you could do the same with dilute vinegar instead of acetone, not sure if it would make the herbs soggy or something though.

 

[ragabr]

Would dilute vinegar salt the freebase again?